'Ring Virgins - Insurance?

[MikeDrop]

I have done some searching on PH for this, but nothing immediately presented itself, so thought I'd start a new thread.

Following on from a vert successful and enjoyable trip to the NC500 last year, three of us have decided to venture out to the 'Ring. Being 'Ring virgins, we have been doing some research to make sure we know what we're letting ourselves in for (this also includes watching hours of crash compilations on YouTube *gulp*).

We've sorted a route and accommodation (Hotel an der Nordschleife). Now we're looking into Insurance. We're all driving low value cars (roughly about a £1k in value. Apart from Craig, who's bought a £176 Golf GTI ). So far, I've looked at quotes from Insuremytrackday.com and MORIS.com. Both come in between £100-150ish.

I can see that these policies would cover damage to our cars and, in Insuremytrackday's case, would cover ARMCO damage up to a certain value, MORIS didn't seem to stipulate whether it would or wouldn't. I've fired some emails across to those guys for some extra info.

I know some insurers specifically call out the exclusion of use of the vehicle on the 'Ring. But I also understand that they are law-bound to honor third party claims. They will then likely try and seek recourse to recover those costs from the underwritten. Not a situation I'd like to find myself in if I've dropped oil and written off a 250 GTO

Interested in hearing how others have managed with/without insurance. Any advice/tips for us?

Cheers

ETA - Craig has kindly pointed the fecking Sticky thread at the top of this subforum - will duly read. Still interested in people's personal experiences though

Edited by MikeDrop on Tuesday 3rd April 15:01

[E-bmw]

Basically my understanding is as follows.

Unless specifically excluded (which is technically illegal) you are covered 3rd party but the company is likely to ATTEMPT to recover costs from the insured. How successful this is likely to be depends on who you listen to & is debatable if they can do so (apparently) after the fact.

You can insure for a track day rather than TF day but again that is first party only in general & can be costly with a high excess.

On a personal level, although I have done around 20 TF days I only ever consider track days now where at least the standard of driving/preparation & personal expectations are higher & the 3rd party risks are on the whole removed.

[nurseholliday]

Not to be a Debbie Downer but if you think there's even a remote chance that your car's going to drop oil, then don't take it on the Ring. Doesn't matter about who ends up paying, do you really want to be the reason someone spins off and really hurts themselves?

[Far Cough]

Sod the cars getting damaged. Think of a motorcyclist who comes off on dropped oil . coolant / whatever ....... That wont be pretty

[MikeDrop]

Thanks guys. I'm pretty sure my car won't be dropping oil - it was a mere example, than anything else.

[RSbandit]

I used Moris last yr to insure my R8 V10+ for two track days at the ring, they were way more competitive than any other quotes I got tbh. Moris don't offer armco cover though. I've never done TF given the generally poor standards of driving and high levels of traffic, track days are the way to go albeit more expensive.

[Wh00sher]

MikeDrop said:

Thanks guys. I'm pretty sure my car won't be dropping oil - it was a mere example, than anything else.

Nobody thinks they are going to drop oil or any other fluid....

This McLaren dropped fluid in the foxhole and he would be liable for the resulting damage. https://www.bridgetogantry.com/mclaren-oil-spill-c...


A huge number of people do TF laps without any issue whatsoever, go with your eyes open and understand what could happen if something did go wrong. Your insurer may well pay out and that`s the last you would hear of it or they may pay out and attempt to reclaim it from you.

[Accelebrate]

I wouldn't personally take a UK registered and insured car on a TF session at The Ring. There don't appear to be any UK insurance companies who will definitely provide 3rd party liability cover on the Nordschleife. I seem to remember RSR mentioning in a driver briefing that the record liability claim from a biker who was injured by someone else's oil was in the millions? Just not worth it IMHO.

German registered/insured vehicles have liability cover, even on The Ring, so hiring from somewhere like Rent4Ring is a much better plan if you're keen on doing TF. I'd still take the extra insurance cover they offer though.

I think I read in your MX5 post that you were planning to do 20+ laps? If you are planning to do that many I'd definitely consider doing a track day run by a UK organiser instead. I did the Circuit Days event in October last year, I think I paid £450 for entry, for that you get:

No liability concerns
A much more enjoyable amount of traffic on track and no kamikaze bikers to spot in your mirrors
Full use of the back straight so you can stay out lapping
Free recovery off track
No closure fees
Free photos!

I did over 20 laps that day, so it was effectively cheaper than doing TF!

https://www.bridgetogantry.com/nurburgring-informa...

[MikeDrop]

Accelebrate said:

I wouldn't personally take a UK registered and insured car on a TF session at The Ring. There don't appear to be any UK insurance companies who will definitely provide 3rd party liability cover on the Nordschleife. I seem to remember RSR mentioning in a driver briefing that the record liability claim from a biker who was injured by someone else's oil was in the millions? Just not worth it IMHO.

German registered/insured vehicles have liability cover, even on The Ring, so hiring from somewhere like Rent4Ring is a much better plan if you're keen on doing TF. I'd still take the extra insurance cover they offer though.

I think I read in your MX5 post that you were planning to do 20+ laps? If you are planning to do that many I'd definitely consider doing a track day run by a UK organiser instead. I did the Circuit Days event in October last year, I think I paid £450 for entry, for that you get:

No liability concerns
A much more enjoyable amount of traffic on track and no kamikaze bikers to spot in your mirrors
Full use of the back straight so you can stay out lapping
Free recovery off track
No closure fees
Free photos!

I did over 20 laps that day, so it was effectively cheaper than doing TF!

https://www.bridgetogantry.com/nurburgring-informa...

Thanks for the reply.

The 20+ laps was just an exaggeration. We'll probably only be doing between 5-8 laps on the Sunday. We did look at track days, but this is supposed to be a "budget" (when is anything ever budget when involving cars though, eh?) road trip so want to keep costs down. We're also limited on what time we can go and not many of the suppliers had events happening on those dates.

[Munter]

MikeDrop said:

Thanks for the reply.

The 20+ laps was just an exaggeration. We'll probably only be doing between 5-8 laps on the Sunday. We did look at track days, but this is supposed to be a "budget" (when is anything ever budget when involving cars though, eh?) road trip so want to keep costs down. We're also limited on what time we can go and not many of the suppliers had events happening on those dates.

Sometimes you just can't afford to do the things you want.
Either:
A)Spend more and rent a car
B)Spend more and do a trackday another year
C)Make a really bad decision and drive on TF in a UK insured car, but don't come crying to anybody if you crash/cause a crash, and your insurance company bankrupts you.

[Tyre Smoke]

Munter said:

Sometimes you just can't afford to do the things you want.
Either:
A)Spend more and rent a car
B)Spend more and do a trackday another year
C)Make a really bad decision and drive on TF in a UK insured car, but don't come crying to anybody if you crash/cause a crash, and your insurance company bankrupts you.

Or, go in your UK registered car, with your eyes wide open. If you know the risks you are taking, then the decision is yours and yours alone to make.

[Dr Jekyll]

I recently found a rather prescient description of lapping the Nurburgring in Moby Dick of all places.

Herman Melville said:

There is much to inspire proud feelings, but whereto does all that circumnavigation conduct? Only through numberless perils to the very point where we started.

[Accelebrate]

MikeDrop said:

Thanks for the reply.

The 20+ laps was just an exaggeration. We'll probably only be doing between 5-8 laps on the Sunday. We did look at track days, but this is supposed to be a "budget" (when is anything ever budget when involving cars though, eh?) road trip so want to keep costs down. We're also limited on what time we can go and not many of the suppliers had events happening on those dates.

I can appreciate doing things on a budget, but (setting aside the hopefully less likely liability issue) just make sure you've got enough available to cover the costs associated with recovery and some barrier damage. Watch the video of DannyDC2s crash to give you an idea of the how much this can be.

I'd say doing a UK track day with your cars in advance would be money well spent. I don't know if you've already driven on track but it'll give you some good experience of how your cars handle on the limit and how to get out of the way of faster stuff. More importantly, it might expose any potential issues with your cars when they're pushed. That could potentially save you thousands of euros.

It might also be worth learning where you can exit the track halfway around just after Adenau bridge. There's a little car park where you can pause/inspect your vehicle before rejoining, or you can exit and forfeit the rest of your lap. I think Dale from Bridge to Gantry covers this in one of his tips videos. If an issue develops and you aren't dropping fluids and are able to proceed it's worth knowing about.

[MikeDrop]

Thanks guys. I completely get the risk aversion here. But I'm leaning towards the more "eyes wide open and enjoy yourself idea". It can't be all that bad, Shirley!

We'll definitely be getting some cover to protect us from recovery and ARMCO costs. Likely be using Insuremytrackday.com for this.

And yes, a track day or two in the UK is 100% on the cards