New to Track Day Scene

[ST-STE]

We have our humble Fiesta 1.6 Zetec S which we initially wanted to sell has now been earmarked for a track day car, We have completed our first one last month at Oulton Park on a Javelin event which we found brilliant fun and well organised.
Now we have got the bug I am wondering whats the easiest and shall we say economical (cheapest) way of insuring the car for the journeys to and from the tracks.
As the Car isnt worth a lot we intend to go for 3rd Party only....the car has exhaust mods and will have the rear seats removed and the front ones replace with bucket seats and harnesses before the next event.
Obviously my first option was to take a policy out as per norm, with a 1000 mile annual mileage, but I was a bit nieve (stupid) and mentioned we would be driving it to track days to the insurer (LV), they then said they couldnt insure it as it was being used for such events, even after I explained I only wanted the To/From the track cover NOT on the track.
We will probably look at doing four or five events over the year, so can any of you tried and tested Track Day folks offer any advice

[paulyv]

I have used DayInsure in the past. No idea of their policy on modifications, but asking them would soon answer that question. My insurance turned out to be about £25 for the day which covered me there and back. Seemed reasonable. To be fair they didn't ask where I was driving to...none of their business as far as I am concerned, but had I experienced a prang on track needless to say I would not be claiming in any case.

Edited by paulyv on Wednesday 28th February 16:40

[E-bmw]

A restricted mileage policy from somewhere like CCI, A-Plan to name but a few works out surprisingly cheap in general as a second car.

Just google "modified car insurance" & spend a couple of hours on the phone.

[Steve H]

ST-STE said:

As the Car isnt worth a lot we intend to go for 3rd Party only....the car has exhaust mods and will have the rear seats removed and the front ones replace with bucket seats and harnesses before the next event.

Really shouldn't unless you are also fitting the cage that race seats/harnesses are designed to work with.

[Cheapstraitsix]

Steve H said:

ST-STE said:

As the Car isnt worth a lot we intend to go for 3rd Party only....the car has exhaust mods and will have the rear seats removed and the front ones replace with bucket seats and harnesses before the next event.

Really shouldn't unless you are also fitting the cage that race seats/harnesses are designed to work with.

Would a Harness bar not far more cost effective if just starting out?
Would have the same desired effect of not submarining of the worst should happen?

Regarding the insurance I have considered starting to trailer my car.
£320 a year tax, plus insurance and refitting my seats to make the airbag light happy every MOT are pushing me in that direction.

I imagine My circumstances are somewhat different as i happen to already have a Range Rover with a tow bar, a trailer licence and a local trailer hire center that rents a decent sized car trailer for £40 per 24hrs.

Food for thought though.

[C70R]

Steve H said:

ST-STE said:

As the Car isnt worth a lot we intend to go for 3rd Party only....the car has exhaust mods and will have the rear seats removed and the front ones replace with bucket seats and harnesses before the next event.

Really shouldn't unless you are also fitting the cage that race seats/harnesses are designed to work with.

I hear this advice a LOT on here (and the vice-versa), and while I can understand the supposed logic to a degree, has there ever been a documented case of death or serious injury that could be directly attributed to fitting one without the other?

[E-bmw]

Cheapstraitsix said:

refitting my seats to make the airbag light happy every MOT are pushing me in that direction.

Food for thought though.

I am sure with the other things you mention this will not be a deciding factor, but you could always just fit a 2.2 ohm resistor if it is the airbag/pretensioner that is causing the warning light.

[Steve H]

C70R said:

I hear this advice a LOT on here (and the vice-versa), and while I can understand the supposed logic to a degree, has there ever been a documented case of death or serious injury that could be directly attributed to fitting one without the other?

I don't know of any but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I always bring this one up as I spend a lot of time jumping into trackday cars that have been poorly prepped and one of the most common culprits is where seats and belts have been fitted and they look like the original kit would have been safer. Getting it all done as one job is the correct way so it's what I always suggest.

[QBee]

Trailering the car has the advantage that you can carry all the spares, wheels tyres etc that you want and also be able to get home if it does break on the track day. I trailer my road legal TVR for that reason. Have fun!

PS, do try Cadwell Park some time soon - its a lovely twisty track that has 14 corners and several hills in 2.1 miles. Suits a lower powered car.
Here's what it looks like from the car behind me. Apologies for the missed apexes.....not my finest hour!

Cadwell

[C70R]

Steve H said:

C70R said:

I hear this advice a LOT on here (and the vice-versa), and while I can understand the supposed logic to a degree, has there ever been a documented case of death or serious injury that could be directly attributed to fitting one without the other?

I don't know of any but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I always bring this one up as I spend a lot of time jumping into trackday cars that have been poorly prepped and one of the most common culprits is where seats and belts have been fitted and they look like the original kit would have been safer. Getting it all done as one job is the correct way so it's what I always suggest.

I'm kind of in the same boat - but when it gets raised here, it's quoted as 'gospel' advice. I just wanted to dig under the surface a little to see exactly what it's based on.

My track car has 4pt harnesses and no cage, and I don't feel remotely less safe as a consequence. Had I heard numerous tales of people being decapitated in the same circumstances, rather than conjecture, I'd probably worry a little more.

[E-bmw]

There are two "one without the other" issues best addressed by only fitting harnesses when a cage is fitted.

In a roll-over wearing normal belts you at least have the chance to bend your neck/head out of the way of a collapsing roof, with harnesses you can't but if you had a cage you wouldn't need to.

If you have a cage fitted & normal belts you could quite easily bang your head on the VERY HARD cage bar, with harnesses & a helmet you can't really reach & your head is protected anyway.

[C70R]

E-bmw said:

There are two "one without the other" issues best addressed by only fitting harnesses when a cage is fitted.

In a roll-over wearing normal belts you at least have the chance to bend your neck/head out of the way of a collapsing roof, with harnesses you can't but if you had a cage you wouldn't need to.

If you have a cage fitted & normal belts you could quite easily bang your head on the VERY HARD cage bar, with harnesses & a helmet you can't really reach & your head is protected anyway.

You're not going to get any disagreement from me, in theory. However, I still haven't heard of a single verifiable incidence of this happening and resulting in death/serious injury. Happy to be wrong.

The rollcage argument is, objectively, much easier to believe - although the simple addition of padding (and/or a helmet - mandatory trackday kit after all) would mitigate for this pretty easily.

I just feel like the amount of force required to make a modern tin-top fold like an IKEA wardrobe is probably going to result in serious injury for the driver whether they have a seatbelt, a harness or a piece of string holding them in...

Edited by C70R on Thursday 8th March 11:11

[E-bmw]

C70R said:

E-bmw said:

There are two "one without the other" issues best addressed by only fitting harnesses when a cage is fitted.

In a roll-over wearing normal belts you at least have the chance to bend your neck/head out of the way of a collapsing roof, with harnesses you can't but if you had a cage you wouldn't need to.

If you have a cage fitted & normal belts you could quite easily bang your head on the VERY HARD cage bar, with harnesses & a helmet you can't really reach & your head is protected anyway.

You're not going to get any disagreement from me, in theory. However, I still haven't heard of a single verifiable incidence of this happening and resulting in death/serious injury. Happy to be wrong.

The rollcage argument is, objectively, much easier to believe - although the simple addition of padding (and/or a helmet - mandatory trackday kit after all) would mitigate for this pretty easily.

I just feel like the amount of force required to make a modern tin-top fold like an IKEA wardrobe is probably going to result in serious injury for the driver whether they have a seatbelt, a harness or a piece of string holding them in...

And that is the decision for the driver to make based on the facts/risks involved.

Have I? Yes, I made similar mitigating arguments.

Would I again? Yes as per your thinking too.

[Cavey]

In response to the original question try this lot:

http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/

Have insured several modded cars very cheaply with them for limited annual mileage.