Track Day Tyres
Discussion
Apologies fellow PH'ers if this topic has already featured at length but I wanted to gauge the opinion of this forum on track day tyres.
I understand there is now a large range of 'cup' tyres to choose from: brands, prices, dry/wet characteristics, ultimate grip, longevity, feel etc. but what do we agree is the market leader for fast road use but, more importantly, 5-10 track days a year? I don't trailer my track cars around so I need to be able drive considerable miles on public roads, sometimes in variable weather conditions from home to circuit, e.g. England to Germany - Nurburgring.
My Lotus 3-Eleven wears Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 boots and my Jaguar XKR-S GT is armed with Pirelli P Zero Corsas. I haven't driven the big cat yet but a previous toy, a Porsche GT3 RS came with the Pirellis and they were pretty good - if memory serves not a million miles behind the Michelin in terms of performance. I did try a set of Pirelli Trofeo Rs on my Cayman R and they were so sticky they felt like slicks (laugh-out-loud grip was on offer) but wore terribly quickly, were very sensitive to pressures and felt pretty lethal in the wet.
Any other tyre suggestions, or fans of those mentioned already?
I understand there is now a large range of 'cup' tyres to choose from: brands, prices, dry/wet characteristics, ultimate grip, longevity, feel etc. but what do we agree is the market leader for fast road use but, more importantly, 5-10 track days a year? I don't trailer my track cars around so I need to be able drive considerable miles on public roads, sometimes in variable weather conditions from home to circuit, e.g. England to Germany - Nurburgring.
My Lotus 3-Eleven wears Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 boots and my Jaguar XKR-S GT is armed with Pirelli P Zero Corsas. I haven't driven the big cat yet but a previous toy, a Porsche GT3 RS came with the Pirellis and they were pretty good - if memory serves not a million miles behind the Michelin in terms of performance. I did try a set of Pirelli Trofeo Rs on my Cayman R and they were so sticky they felt like slicks (laugh-out-loud grip was on offer) but wore terribly quickly, were very sensitive to pressures and felt pretty lethal in the wet.
Any other tyre suggestions, or fans of those mentioned already?
How much driving do you do in the wet/winter?
If you're looking for something with year-round performance then the cup style tyres might not cut it.
I ran PS4S on a V8 Vantage with a couple of track days and about 10,000 road miles all year round. Plenty of grip on a dry track but did tend to go off towards the end of a 15-20 minute session on track. I will be replacing the P Zeros on my Mustang with PS4s shortly.
If you're less concerned with wet/cold conditions then the Cup 2 would seem to be just about every manufacturer's favorite high performance tyre for big boy cars.
If you're looking for something with year-round performance then the cup style tyres might not cut it.
I ran PS4S on a V8 Vantage with a couple of track days and about 10,000 road miles all year round. Plenty of grip on a dry track but did tend to go off towards the end of a 15-20 minute session on track. I will be replacing the P Zeros on my Mustang with PS4s shortly.
If you're less concerned with wet/cold conditions then the Cup 2 would seem to be just about every manufacturer's favorite high performance tyre for big boy cars.
Yes, very much my thinking too: Michelin PS4 for fast road driving and the occasional track day, and Michelin Cup 2 for the track day regular. But I'm not discounting the Pirelli Corsa or the more extreme Trofeo R. As said, if want ultimate dry grip at the expense of longevity and any wet weather traction, and can stomach the cost, then the Trofeo R is pretty untouchable.
This German track day tyre review makes interesting reading (content is in English):
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Track-Da...
This German track day tyre review makes interesting reading (content is in English):
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Track-Da...
I’ve got ad08rs on a 230hp turbo Mx5, they are good tyres. They seem to lasting really well and have little signs of wear after 3 track days.
I’ve used federal 595 rsr for years on all my cars, they have more ultimate grip than the ad08rs, but they wear out a lot faster. They are also a few quid cheaper.
I don’t really see the point in the cup tyres, the sidewalls are too soft for track and then they aren’t as good in the wet compared to PS4’s. I just don’t see the point in having a very expensive compromised tyre
I’ve used federal 595 rsr for years on all my cars, they have more ultimate grip than the ad08rs, but they wear out a lot faster. They are also a few quid cheaper.
I don’t really see the point in the cup tyres, the sidewalls are too soft for track and then they aren’t as good in the wet compared to PS4’s. I just don’t see the point in having a very expensive compromised tyre
towelie said:
I’ve got ad08rs on a 230hp turbo Mx5, they are good tyres. They seem to lasting really well and have little signs of wear after 3 track days.
I’ve used federal 595 rsr for years on all my cars, they have more ultimate grip than the ad08rs, but they wear out a lot faster. They are also a few quid cheaper.
I don’t really see the point in the cup tyres, the sidewalls are too soft for track and then they aren’t as good in the wet compared to PS4’s. I just don’t see the point in having a very expensive compromised tyre
I have cup 2 on my MX5, they are simply the best track tyre I have ever used, so I don't get your comments at all. The cup 2's are awesome wet or dry and I was at Bedford on Monday in the cold and wet and still a great tyre. After a number of trackdays including the 'Ring and Spa last year there is still loads of life left in them.I’ve used federal 595 rsr for years on all my cars, they have more ultimate grip than the ad08rs, but they wear out a lot faster. They are also a few quid cheaper.
I don’t really see the point in the cup tyres, the sidewalls are too soft for track and then they aren’t as good in the wet compared to PS4’s. I just don’t see the point in having a very expensive compromised tyre
Have you actually tried them?
Edited by Dakkon on Wednesday 31st January 13:36
Also worth bearing in mind that one tyre model might be 'best' on something that's sub-1000kg but may be significantly different in a size that suits a car nearing two tonnes.
I'm not aware of any heavy performance cars that ship on federals, yokohamas or toyos from the factory - but that could be because the likes of michelin and pirelli can afford to supply tyres to OEMs cheaper for marketing purposes.
I'm not aware of any heavy performance cars that ship on federals, yokohamas or toyos from the factory - but that could be because the likes of michelin and pirelli can afford to supply tyres to OEMs cheaper for marketing purposes.
Dakkon said:
I have cup 2 on my MX5, they are simply the best track tyre I have ever used, so I don't get your comments at all. The cup 2's are awesome wet or dry and I was at Bedford on Monday in the cold and wet and still a great tyre. After a number of trackdays including the 'Ring and Spa last year there is still loads of life left in them.
Have you actually tried them?
To be fair, I’ve only used the cup tyres on a megane 275 trophy the sidewalls were down to canvas after one track day. Have you actually tried them?
Edited by Dakkon on Wednesday 31st January 13:36
They have really soft side walls compared to more track orientated tyres. I can see how you might get away with it on a light car like an mx5, but even using the federal I have to really look after the sidewall.
Tyre usage on track days is highly dependent on how hard you push the tyres, driver style, alignment and body roll. My cars get used very hard on track.
For the price difference cup tyres a waste of money IMO.
You realise that on the average Trackday you could be on track for easily 2.5 hours which would pretty much be a half a test day, qualifying and 3 races, so a whole race meeting. Saying 5 to 10 Trackdays means you need some pretty hard tyres. The fastest tyres are never going to give you this sort of life.
Mr MXT said:
Todd Bonzalez said:
Nankang AR1s are the absolute boys at the mo when it comes to M3 type stuff.
Outlapped Direzza 03Gs, R888Rs etc on a cup car we tried them on.
just put a set on my Westfield. Hopefully as good on something lighter.Outlapped Direzza 03Gs, R888Rs etc on a cup car we tried them on.
I raced a Caterham on the AR1 at Snetterton last weekend but it was my first time racing that type of car and so have no experience to compare tyre performance with.
Tyres felt good but what do I know?
The AR1 seems to be heavier than the Yoko 48 and Toyo 888.
For a multi-purpose street & track, wet and dry tyre that has a decent life I think that Yoko AD08R are hard to beat.
In terms of reference points
Trofeo R are about as good as it gets from an out and out grip perspective, but as you have stated they are soft, thus there is a strong possibility of killing them on a trackday and then not having anything to drive home on.
Cup2 quicker than Yoko AD08R in the dry, albeit marginally, I would say on a par if not a little weaker than the Yoko in the wet. - Wear a lot quicker than the AD08R.
No experience of the others mentioned.
In terms of reference points
Trofeo R are about as good as it gets from an out and out grip perspective, but as you have stated they are soft, thus there is a strong possibility of killing them on a trackday and then not having anything to drive home on.
Cup2 quicker than Yoko AD08R in the dry, albeit marginally, I would say on a par if not a little weaker than the Yoko in the wet. - Wear a lot quicker than the AD08R.
No experience of the others mentioned.
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