MX5 vs 328i !!
Discussion
Hello guys,
want to get a car for track days, it needs to be able to be MOTed because I need to drive to and from the track, its not going to be a daily drive as I already own another car for that, and I am looking at RWD cars, my daily is aE46 M3, but its much more expensive to run on track, plus it would need subframe, Vanos and bearing shells done, just those 3 things are the price of a track car with spare money for goodies.
From all the research I did it come down to a MX5 MK3, the MK3 because it has a bit more poke and you can get them to 200bhp with £2000 and still remain NA, the convertible bit is always a plus to enjoy on the few days of sun we get.
And the 328i, also rwd, 196 or so bhp, about the same cost to buy, about the same cost for parts, and aproximately the same costs per track as a MX5 MK3.
At the moment, I am inclined for the MX5, its more recent, convertible, and I can get them to 200bhp.
From people with track experience and with experience with both cars, what would you choose and why?
Many Thanks
want to get a car for track days, it needs to be able to be MOTed because I need to drive to and from the track, its not going to be a daily drive as I already own another car for that, and I am looking at RWD cars, my daily is aE46 M3, but its much more expensive to run on track, plus it would need subframe, Vanos and bearing shells done, just those 3 things are the price of a track car with spare money for goodies.
From all the research I did it come down to a MX5 MK3, the MK3 because it has a bit more poke and you can get them to 200bhp with £2000 and still remain NA, the convertible bit is always a plus to enjoy on the few days of sun we get.
And the 328i, also rwd, 196 or so bhp, about the same cost to buy, about the same cost for parts, and aproximately the same costs per track as a MX5 MK3.
At the moment, I am inclined for the MX5, its more recent, convertible, and I can get them to 200bhp.
From people with track experience and with experience with both cars, what would you choose and why?
Many Thanks
RX8's are crap really, i'll eat my hat if you can find a standard one that makes its claimed 231bhp.
I have a Mk3 Mx5, at the weekend i spent just over a grand on exhaust manifold, skuzzle intake and remap. It made 190.5bhp at the flywheel. Mine has MeisterR coilovers, add some sticky tyres decent pads and fluid and you're not going to win any races but its a great fun, reliable track car for the money that is still comfortable to drive to the circuit and home again.
I have a Mk3 Mx5, at the weekend i spent just over a grand on exhaust manifold, skuzzle intake and remap. It made 190.5bhp at the flywheel. Mine has MeisterR coilovers, add some sticky tyres decent pads and fluid and you're not going to win any races but its a great fun, reliable track car for the money that is still comfortable to drive to the circuit and home again.
Interesting one, I've tracked e36s a lot & have tracked mk 1 & 2 mx5s, the mx5s are a long way off an equivalent prep 328s pace without boost, or mega engine work & extreme weight loss if staying na, but are far more 'alive' & danceable.
With the right boost- IE not just a basic sc, the pace is sorted heck with the right boost- it's beyond sorted m3 pace, but a lot of fettling is needed, boosted mxs in my humble experience are not plain sailing.
You can change a 328 or indeed any e36 or 46 a lot so they are far far removed from the stodgy stock road car & a really great budget track weapon, I'm a massive fan, but not to mx5 feel.
I have zero experience of a mk3, I'd imagine a bit dulled & grown up over earlier cars, but still with the mx5 character, on paper a similar weight to a track 328, but if you do the normal mods to a 328 it can have approx 90bhp up, the mk3s are easily modded also, although I do think many are a tad optimistic in the figures when on honest dynos I've seen 160bhp from a car that claimed 200 but even assuming you can get a real 190bhp, even stock the 328 will have more grunt as ignore the manufacturer figs are a real 200-210bhp stock & a 328 with normal mods hitting a real 230 or if you do m3 manifold also 240bhp is a real fig, mix & match bits & chuck money at them knocking on 300bhp possible, but is over m3 money to do so.
If it was easy to run 200+bhp reliably & cheaply in mk3s I'd have one tomorrow, tick a lot of boxes.
You can of course go boost with the mk3s, not cheap tho & again seems to be chasing issues unless a big budget build.
S2000 is another option, yes the engine is frustrating & too heavy as stock, but when sorted & stick suspension etc binned they are good things, a step up from the mx5 & 328 in cost tho.
With the right boost- IE not just a basic sc, the pace is sorted heck with the right boost- it's beyond sorted m3 pace, but a lot of fettling is needed, boosted mxs in my humble experience are not plain sailing.
You can change a 328 or indeed any e36 or 46 a lot so they are far far removed from the stodgy stock road car & a really great budget track weapon, I'm a massive fan, but not to mx5 feel.
I have zero experience of a mk3, I'd imagine a bit dulled & grown up over earlier cars, but still with the mx5 character, on paper a similar weight to a track 328, but if you do the normal mods to a 328 it can have approx 90bhp up, the mk3s are easily modded also, although I do think many are a tad optimistic in the figures when on honest dynos I've seen 160bhp from a car that claimed 200 but even assuming you can get a real 190bhp, even stock the 328 will have more grunt as ignore the manufacturer figs are a real 200-210bhp stock & a 328 with normal mods hitting a real 230 or if you do m3 manifold also 240bhp is a real fig, mix & match bits & chuck money at them knocking on 300bhp possible, but is over m3 money to do so.
If it was easy to run 200+bhp reliably & cheaply in mk3s I'd have one tomorrow, tick a lot of boxes.
You can of course go boost with the mk3s, not cheap tho & again seems to be chasing issues unless a big budget build.
S2000 is another option, yes the engine is frustrating & too heavy as stock, but when sorted & stick suspension etc binned they are good things, a step up from the mx5 & 328 in cost tho.
CABC said:
mx5 light, agile, d/wishbones, aftermarket support, running costs
rx8?
328 noisy once you've lost weight
mk3 mx5 needs original seat fitted for mot. yearly swap over maybe?
Yeah I would not mind swapping once a year, would definitely need to be done as the standard seats are not very supportive.rx8?
328 noisy once you've lost weight
mk3 mx5 needs original seat fitted for mot. yearly swap over maybe?
iguana said:
Interesting one, I've tracked e36s a lot & have tracked mk 1 & 2 mx5s, the mx5s are a long way off an equivalent prep 328s pace without boost, or mega engine work & extreme weight loss if staying na, but are far more 'alive' & danceable.
With the right boost- IE not just a basic sc, the pace is sorted heck with the right boost- it's beyond sorted m3 pace, but a lot of fettling is needed, boosted mxs in my humble experience are not plain sailing.
You can change a 328 or indeed any e36 or 46 a lot so they are far far removed from the stodgy stock road car & a really great budget track weapon, I'm a massive fan, but not to mx5 feel.
I have zero experience of a mk3, I'd imagine a bit dulled & grown up over earlier cars, but still with the mx5 character, on paper a similar weight to a track 328, but if you do the normal mods to a 328 it can have approx 90bhp up, the mk3s are easily modded also, although I do think many are a tad optimistic in the figures when on honest dynos I've seen 160bhp from a car that claimed 200 but even assuming you can get a real 190bhp, even stock the 328 will have more grunt as ignore the manufacturer figs are a real 200-210bhp stock & a 328 with normal mods hitting a real 230 or if you do m3 manifold also 240bhp is a real fig, mix & match bits & chuck money at them knocking on 300bhp possible, but is over m3 money to do so.
If it was easy to run 200+bhp reliably & cheaply in mk3s I'd have one tomorrow, tick a lot of boxes.
You can of course go boost with the mk3s, not cheap tho & again seems to be chasing issues unless a big budget build.
S2000 is another option, yes the engine is frustrating & too heavy as stock, but when sorted & stick suspension etc binned they are good things, a step up from the mx5 & 328 in cost tho.
Thanks for you reply, I would not be going boost on it, the money spent boosting it I can sort out my E46 M3.With the right boost- IE not just a basic sc, the pace is sorted heck with the right boost- it's beyond sorted m3 pace, but a lot of fettling is needed, boosted mxs in my humble experience are not plain sailing.
You can change a 328 or indeed any e36 or 46 a lot so they are far far removed from the stodgy stock road car & a really great budget track weapon, I'm a massive fan, but not to mx5 feel.
I have zero experience of a mk3, I'd imagine a bit dulled & grown up over earlier cars, but still with the mx5 character, on paper a similar weight to a track 328, but if you do the normal mods to a 328 it can have approx 90bhp up, the mk3s are easily modded also, although I do think many are a tad optimistic in the figures when on honest dynos I've seen 160bhp from a car that claimed 200 but even assuming you can get a real 190bhp, even stock the 328 will have more grunt as ignore the manufacturer figs are a real 200-210bhp stock & a 328 with normal mods hitting a real 230 or if you do m3 manifold also 240bhp is a real fig, mix & match bits & chuck money at them knocking on 300bhp possible, but is over m3 money to do so.
If it was easy to run 200+bhp reliably & cheaply in mk3s I'd have one tomorrow, tick a lot of boxes.
You can of course go boost with the mk3s, not cheap tho & again seems to be chasing issues unless a big budget build.
S2000 is another option, yes the engine is frustrating & too heavy as stock, but when sorted & stick suspension etc binned they are good things, a step up from the mx5 & 328 in cost tho.
The MK3 is like you say a bit more grown up, but they are 2.0 litre engine with 160bhp stock, and they can be reliably tuned for 200 bhp, BBR has a Super200 kit, and it has very very good reviews, they even have a video on youtube of the car doing 0-60 in 6.1secs with the 200 kit that cost £2000.
The S2000's are very expensive now, so thats out of the question.
I seem to be edging towards the MX5, BUT there are more track ready 328i popping on ebay, so I can save a lot of money buying a track ready car, but will need to wait for something around the £3k mark.
Keep the opinion coming guys, appreciate it.
Guizas said:
BUT there are more track ready 328i popping on ebay, so I can save a lot of money buying a track ready car, but will need to wait for something around the £3k mark.
.
Might be worth you dropping me an email then, I've a pair of 328 track cars, one of which I was planning to be selling when both the weather & the track car market warmed up a tad anyway. .
iguana said:
Guizas said:
BUT there are more track ready 328i popping on ebay, so I can save a lot of money buying a track ready car, but will need to wait for something around the £3k mark.
.
Might be worth you dropping me an email then, I've a pair of 328 track cars, one of which I was planning to be selling when both the weather & the track car market warmed up a tad anyway. .
Iguana & I both know these have up to around 240bhp with the right mods & although they are more costly on consumables, with the right pads etc this is significantly reduced and they are also pretty bulletproof.
DanGPR said:
RX8's are crap really, i'll eat my hat if you can find a standard one that makes its claimed 231bhp.
I have a Mk3 Mx5, at the weekend i spent just over a grand on exhaust manifold, skuzzle intake and remap. It made 190.5bhp at the flywheel. Mine has MeisterR coilovers, add some sticky tyres decent pads and fluid and you're not going to win any races but its a great fun, reliable track car for the money that is still comfortable to drive to the circuit and home again.
I find the RX8 "crap" comment a bit strange?? Me and a friend used his PZ for 3 years in standard production sprinting and hillclimbing championships at places including Goodwood and Lydden Hill and it was only ever defeated twice. Once because my friend had an off, and the other because he had never been to Goodwood before. It pretty much beat every 2.0 n/a it came across including Honda Type Rs and RenaultSport Clios?? And we both posted identical 59.50 around Brands Indy in a completely stock car on regular street tyres. Our standard spec Clio Cup cannot get below 60 seconds. I would not say they are "crap" I have a Mk3 Mx5, at the weekend i spent just over a grand on exhaust manifold, skuzzle intake and remap. It made 190.5bhp at the flywheel. Mine has MeisterR coilovers, add some sticky tyres decent pads and fluid and you're not going to win any races but its a great fun, reliable track car for the money that is still comfortable to drive to the circuit and home again.
iguana said:
With the right boost- IE not just a basic sc, the pace is sorted heck with the right boost- it's beyond sorted m3 pace, but a lot of fettling is needed, boosted mxs in my humble experience are not plain sailing.
Beyond sorted M3 pace? I had a play with a couple of ~300hp MX5s in my old E92 M3 with just coilovers, brakes, exhaust and a map and it wasn't even close 
Furyblade_Lee said:
I find the RX8 "crap" comment a bit strange?? Me and a friend used his PZ for 3 years in standard production sprinting and hillclimbing championships at places including Goodwood and Lydden Hill and it was only ever defeated twice. Once because my friend had an off, and the other because he had never been to Goodwood before. It pretty much beat every 2.0 n/a it came across including Honda Type Rs and RenaultSport Clios?? And we both posted identical 59.50 around Brands Indy in a completely stock car on regular street tyres. Our standard spec Clio Cup cannot get below 60 seconds. I would not say they are "crap"
The trouble with RX8s on track is they are horribly thirtsy at full throttle and don't make a huge amount of power for it. Great chassis, though.It's the $64,000 question isn't it...
Well, you've made a good choice so far by picking probably the two best cheap track cars. I've had an E36 328i, 2x mk1 MX5s and my current track car, a supercharged mk2 MX5.
The most enjoyable to drive on track have been the mk1 MX5s. Put a set of good quality coilovers on (I had HSDs) and they're sharp yet playful little track tools. Not especially quick in a straight line, but the straights are boring. Anyway, they feel faster than they are as you're so low and exposed.
The E36 can't disguise its saloon car roots, even with suspension work, but does have the better motor. More comfortable for driving to and from tracks, and space for a spare set of wheels, too.
Since I mentioned it, I'll air my views the supercharged mk2. I thought it would be the answer to my track car cries; the beautiful steering of the MX5 with the power of the 328i. Sadly not - the supercharger ruins the throttle response and power delivery of the NA car, and the steering isn't a joy like the non-assisted mk1s.
Well, you've made a good choice so far by picking probably the two best cheap track cars. I've had an E36 328i, 2x mk1 MX5s and my current track car, a supercharged mk2 MX5.
The most enjoyable to drive on track have been the mk1 MX5s. Put a set of good quality coilovers on (I had HSDs) and they're sharp yet playful little track tools. Not especially quick in a straight line, but the straights are boring. Anyway, they feel faster than they are as you're so low and exposed.
The E36 can't disguise its saloon car roots, even with suspension work, but does have the better motor. More comfortable for driving to and from tracks, and space for a spare set of wheels, too.
Since I mentioned it, I'll air my views the supercharged mk2. I thought it would be the answer to my track car cries; the beautiful steering of the MX5 with the power of the 328i. Sadly not - the supercharger ruins the throttle response and power delivery of the NA car, and the steering isn't a joy like the non-assisted mk1s.
Personally I’d chose light weight and decent steering feel over power for track work. A track day isn’t a race it’s about having fun.
Had an E36 M3 as a fast road/track car and didn’t keep it very long. It was fast but just too heavy and numb. It didn’t put a smile on my face the way mr2’s, vx220’s and now the Caterham does.
Had an E36 M3 as a fast road/track car and didn’t keep it very long. It was fast but just too heavy and numb. It didn’t put a smile on my face the way mr2’s, vx220’s and now the Caterham does.
DanGPR said:
I have a Mk3 Mx5, at the weekend i spent just over a grand on exhaust manifold, skuzzle intake and remap. It made 190.5bhp at the flywheel. Mine has MeisterR coilovers, add some sticky tyres decent pads and fluid and you're not going to win any races but its a great fun, reliable track car for the money that is still comfortable to drive to the circuit and home again.
That must have been your silver one. I was there picking up my blue mini Clubman which I’d left at Skuzzles having used it to collect my Mk3 Mx5 having just had the same Mods. Mine made 1 more bhp that yours. Lol. I believe nick used the map off mine as the base for yours as well. mpit said:
Beyond sorted M3 pace? I had a play with a couple of ~300hp MX5s in my old E92 M3 with just coilovers, brakes, exhaust and a map and it wasn't even close .
The problem with these kinds of examples is that it doesn’t take into account driver skills. I’ve driven a couple of M3s and a large number of boosted 5s. Depending on spec and Mods I’d say a well sorted boosted 5 and a tweaked e90 M3 would be fairly close on pace on most uk circuits with the same driver. An E90 is different league in terms of running costs though.
HorneyMX5 said:
That must have been your silver one. I was there picking up my blue mini Clubman which I’d left at Skuzzles having used it to collect my Mk3 Mx5 having just had the same Mods. Mine made 1 more bhp that yours. Lol. I believe nick used the map off mine as the base for yours as well.
Yeah mine was the silver one!He told me about your car, our cars having the exact same ECU revision means they must have left the factory at very similar times!
Car feels great now, breaks traction much easier though have to keep on your toes.
mpit said:
The trouble with RX8s on track is they are horribly thirtsy at full throttle and don't make a huge amount of power for it. Great chassis, though.
It's the other way around - at full throttle they use no more than a similar powered car so the fuel consumption is not a problem for track days. The problem is that they still use comparatively loads of fuel in day to day driving!For me the RX8 would be my first choice of cheap (mild) track car. Lighter than an E36, quicker than a MX5. Only very minimal mods for some track focus compared to making an E36 more suitable or an MX5 quicker. For someone who doesn't want to tinker and just wants to drive to tracks with heating and aircon, bomb around and drive home, I think they're hard to beat.
braddo said:
For me the RX8 would be my first choice of cheap (mild) track car. Lighter than an E36, quicker than a MX5. Only very minimal mods for some track focus compared to making an E36 more suitable or an MX5 quicker. For someone who doesn't want to tinker and just wants to drive to tracks with heating and aircon, bomb around and drive home, I think they're hard to beat.
Fair point, but the RX8 isnt as care free as you suggest from what I have researched, apart from strict oil level maintenance even on a casual track car, a more track oriented car adds to the regular tinker list going as far as a dedicated 2 stroke oil tank to lubricate seals, etc. In summary cost is just being redirected to different areas with different cars imo. Also the kerb weight for an rx8 is 1309~1379kg compared with e36 328 coupe at 1395kg in oem trim, not as big a difference really.I have an e36 328, great fun but I would say well north of 5K prep budget to prep suitably to really lean on the chassis, consumbles are above that. I dont have an MX5 but for similar spend Im willing to bet will be as if not more capable. Being lighter to start should equate to cheaper consumables and more responsive character.
OP imo you need to decide if your dedicated toy needs to fit under or over 5Kish budget and X for consumables, but in either case you will be saving lots of cash it you buy an already prepped car, typically up to 50% of the build cost.
I love the 328, but personally I would pick less weight to start with and use the cars full potential, this makes the MX5 a very attractive proposition. At 5Kish you could even consider a Seven, with that you can recover most of yoyr investment when you are done playing....unlike the others.
Just my 2 pence.
P.S. To give an example of costs, a custom cages full multipoint t45 weld in cage has cost 1500 to acquire (second hand, more from source). Currently struggling to find a fabricator to fit it under 2000 exc Vat!!! So all in around 4K to fit a decent cage in the chassis. I bet an MX5 racing cage would cost less than half. You could even buy a complete prepped car for a little over this example cost. Just puts things in perspective. Cam it be done cheaper yes, would trust the setup 100% to keep me alive if bad s
t happens, debatable.Edited by Humour on Thursday 15th February 12:02
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