Another tyre question Michelin PSS or PS4?
Discussion
Hi folks,
My Evo needs new rubber. Well truthfully it doesn't but i'm sick of the lack of wet grip that the (ancient) Yoko Parada's have. Wet performance is poor and that's the grip (pun intended) of the problem. To give you an idea of how bad they are, I can easily loose all traction in 3rd gear,,,,
Anyway, I can't get the 4S as they don't come below 19 inch. The cup 2 is too track focused for my level of ability and daily driving in the wet ( I think) so i'm looking at the Super Sports (plenty still available) or the newer Sport 4.
Am i going to loose some wet ability on the PSS, am I perhaps better off with the newer less track focused PS4 as an all rounder?
Ultimately I doubt I am going to be able to experience much of a difference with day to day driving (wet or dry) but the odd time i might go for a few laps might prove a difference?
Advice/ thoughts please,
Thanks.
My Evo needs new rubber. Well truthfully it doesn't but i'm sick of the lack of wet grip that the (ancient) Yoko Parada's have. Wet performance is poor and that's the grip (pun intended) of the problem. To give you an idea of how bad they are, I can easily loose all traction in 3rd gear,,,,
Anyway, I can't get the 4S as they don't come below 19 inch. The cup 2 is too track focused for my level of ability and daily driving in the wet ( I think) so i'm looking at the Super Sports (plenty still available) or the newer Sport 4.
Am i going to loose some wet ability on the PSS, am I perhaps better off with the newer less track focused PS4 as an all rounder?
Ultimately I doubt I am going to be able to experience much of a difference with day to day driving (wet or dry) but the odd time i might go for a few laps might prove a difference?
Advice/ thoughts please,
Thanks.
I've previously had a set of PSS for 40k miles and now have a set of PSC2 fitted - the PSC2 have been fitted for the last 15k miles and I reckon they still have at least 5k miles remaining. All of my experience with the tyres are road use only.
The PSS impressed me hugely when fitted, especially in how they gripped with comparatively little wear. They were very good in the dry, very capable in the wet and were reasonably quiet.
For me however, in the South of the UK, the PSC2 has been an improvement* and perfectly acceptable as a tyre to drive on every day. Admittedly, they're not particularly confidence inspiring when you hit standing water at motorway speeds - by this I'm talking the puddles you sometimes see at the centre of a motorway where it's rained heavily and the central reservation doesn't drain properly - and they're going to cost me significantly more per mile given their faster rate of wear. This being said though, driving quickly in heavy rain with them fitted is perfectly safe provided the road drains properly and should it not, you just need to lower your speed a little. You don't suddenly fall off the road when the temperature is sub-5 degrees either.
*the dry grip is better (not hugely) on the PSC2 which is why I'd say, for me, it's been an improvement over the PSS.
In terms of noise, the PSC2 is a slightly quieter tyre than the PSS although neither of them are silent.
The PSS impressed me hugely when fitted, especially in how they gripped with comparatively little wear. They were very good in the dry, very capable in the wet and were reasonably quiet.
For me however, in the South of the UK, the PSC2 has been an improvement* and perfectly acceptable as a tyre to drive on every day. Admittedly, they're not particularly confidence inspiring when you hit standing water at motorway speeds - by this I'm talking the puddles you sometimes see at the centre of a motorway where it's rained heavily and the central reservation doesn't drain properly - and they're going to cost me significantly more per mile given their faster rate of wear. This being said though, driving quickly in heavy rain with them fitted is perfectly safe provided the road drains properly and should it not, you just need to lower your speed a little. You don't suddenly fall off the road when the temperature is sub-5 degrees either.
*the dry grip is better (not hugely) on the PSC2 which is why I'd say, for me, it's been an improvement over the PSS.
In terms of noise, the PSC2 is a slightly quieter tyre than the PSS although neither of them are silent.
10k into a set of PSS on my M140i. They are brilliant in the dry, OK in the wet if it's above about 10-12°C, but don't inspire any confidence at all when it gets colder. Internet wisdom suggests the PS4 is a much better year round prospect with better cold and wet weather performance without much loss in dry grip.
Wear rates on the PSS are excellent though. 5mm left on the rears after 10k, and although it's not been tracked, it's not driven gently either.
Wear rates on the PSS are excellent though. 5mm left on the rears after 10k, and although it's not been tracked, it's not driven gently either.
Cup 2's aren't an all rounder. I'm testing them on the M3 at the moment and they're awful when cold.
PSS vs PS4 comes down to whether you want wet grip or steering feel.
The PSS will have a marginally better feel, but be noisier and offer less comfort.
The PS4 will beat it in every category other than steering feel. It will be quite a step up in wet grip.
Edit: Mr Barry, what car are you running the Cup 2's on as a daily?
PSS vs PS4 comes down to whether you want wet grip or steering feel.
The PSS will have a marginally better feel, but be noisier and offer less comfort.
The PS4 will beat it in every category other than steering feel. It will be quite a step up in wet grip.
Edit: Mr Barry, what car are you running the Cup 2's on as a daily?
Jon - Scirocco R so FWD but relatively powerful.
I’ve had them fitted since April 2017 so throughout the “winter” we’ve had thus far (i.e. down to around -2 degrees) and whilst I drive very tentatively when they’re cold, I wouldn’t say they perform noticeably poorly. Once they’ve got a bit of warmth in them, they’re perfectly okay, even in cold and damp conditions.
I did not drive them in the snow we had in December - the car remained on the drive - so can’t comment how they perform in those conditions however I would assume poorly!
ETA - in the interests of honesty, the Cup 2s will spin in wet and/or cold conditions on full throttle through 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, unless they’ve got some heat in them.
I’ve had them fitted since April 2017 so throughout the “winter” we’ve had thus far (i.e. down to around -2 degrees) and whilst I drive very tentatively when they’re cold, I wouldn’t say they perform noticeably poorly. Once they’ve got a bit of warmth in them, they’re perfectly okay, even in cold and damp conditions.
I did not drive them in the snow we had in December - the car remained on the drive - so can’t comment how they perform in those conditions however I would assume poorly!
ETA - in the interests of honesty, the Cup 2s will spin in wet and/or cold conditions on full throttle through 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, unless they’ve got some heat in them.
Edited by MrBarry123 on Tuesday 2nd January 21:53
MrBarry123 said:
Jon - Scirocco R so FWD but relatively powerful.
I’ve had them fitted since April 2017 so throughout the “winter” we’ve had thus far (i.e. down to around -2 degrees) and whilst I drive very tentatively when they’re cold, I wouldn’t say they perform noticeably poorly. Once they’ve got a bit of warmth in them, they’re perfectly okay, even in cold and damp conditions.
I did not drive them in the snow we had in December - the car remained on the drive - so can’t comment how they perform in those conditions however I would assume poorly!
ETA - in the interests of honesty, the Cup 2s will spin in wet and/or cold conditions on full throttle through 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, unless they’ve got some heat in them.
Comparing them directly against the PS4S, the Cups really do behave poorly. I've never had the PS4S break traction in 2nd (e92 m3) where at the Cups are always skitting about in the damp. Traction is a constant issue around town / pulling out of junctions, they're worse than budget until warm!I’ve had them fitted since April 2017 so throughout the “winter” we’ve had thus far (i.e. down to around -2 degrees) and whilst I drive very tentatively when they’re cold, I wouldn’t say they perform noticeably poorly. Once they’ve got a bit of warmth in them, they’re perfectly okay, even in cold and damp conditions.
I did not drive them in the snow we had in December - the car remained on the drive - so can’t comment how they perform in those conditions however I would assume poorly!
ETA - in the interests of honesty, the Cup 2s will spin in wet and/or cold conditions on full throttle through 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, unless they’ve got some heat in them.
Edited by MrBarry123 on Tuesday 2nd January 21:53
Agree with that comment , worse than budgets. I had a very embarassing moment some time ago. I was exiting the car park from our hotel into traffic, a guy slowed and waved me out, I acceletated not violently but still managed a power slide.
Presently using PS2 as cant find PS4s in 18 " sizes.
Anyone know will PS4S become available in 18s ?
Presently using PS2 as cant find PS4s in 18 " sizes.
Anyone know will PS4S become available in 18s ?
majordad said:
Agree with that comment , worse than budgets. I had a very embarassing moment some time ago. I was exiting the car park from our hotel into traffic, a guy slowed and waved me out, I acceletated not violently but still managed a power slide.
Presently using PS2 as cant find PS4s in 18 " sizes.
Anyone know will PS4S become available in 18s ?
Just use the PS4.Presently using PS2 as cant find PS4s in 18 " sizes.
Anyone know will PS4S become available in 18s ?
Do me a favour. Everyday track tyre? There is no such thing, even if the manufacturer advertises it as such.
There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
Edited by Oilchange on Thursday 4th January 21:45
Oilchange said:
Do me a favour. Everyday track tyre? There is no such thing, even if the manufacturer advertises it as such.
There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
I think you may be! There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
Although, I'm still of the opinion that in my situation, I can run Cups throughout the year without issue provided you're mindful that they're fitted.
Oilchange said:
Do me a favour. Everyday track tyre? There is no such thing, even if the manufacturer advertises it as such.
There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
My background is tyre testing, so I guess you could call me converted There is a warm weather soft compound sticky that needs heat to work and simply won't work in the cold of winter and there is almost every other average performance tyre that will perform better in cold wet conditions as they won't need heat to get them to work at least on a basic level.
When will people understand this? And because they won't last 20,000 hard track miles doesn't mean they are a poor quality product.
Want a good gripping rain/cold weather tyre that isn't branded as a proper winter tyre, get Uniroyal Rainsports. Want a warm weather track tyre for use in Spain on a warm Spring day that will embarrass most on track, get the Cups. The two do not mix.
Am I preaching to the converted?
I've also driven cups on the track in the dry and wet a number of times, no surprises for me there.That doesn't mean I can't be surprised by their performance when the roads are damp and greasy, but still warm. Compounding has come a long way in the last ten years, and the Cup 2 does have great wet grip (for a track tyre, in the right conditions) but these are more sketchy than I thought they would be.
I'm just feeding back my opinion on the discussion as it's something I'm currently testing and I'm in the fortunate position to be literally switching between PS4S and PSC2 every few days.
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