Done a few laps, but want to get better!
Discussion
Hi. A couple of years ago I got my first taste of a track in my Clio 182... loved it, but sold the car soon after, and didn't manage to get back out there until last month in my new Mini Cooper S. Both of these were at a car show, so only half hour sessions. I'd now like to take it a bit further!
I think I need a bit of tuition to get the best out of it. I've always loved go-karts and to be honest have been pretty good at it! But when it's my own car I'm a bit more nervous, seeing as my 'track' car is my only car! The nearest track to me in Essex is Brands Hatch, so I was looking at what they offer and I'm a bit confused on what route to go.
So first of all I clicked on Driver Training which points you to a full-day course costing £399.
But if you click on a link for Brands Hatch it says £245 for the day... £250 for a one hour driving lesson... £648 for the track academy. None of which tally's up with the above!
But there's more! If you try and book a General track day, you can then book driver instruction for only £25!?
There are also Novice track days... so maybe that's the one to go for. I don't know lol.
I think I need a bit of tuition to get the best out of it. I've always loved go-karts and to be honest have been pretty good at it! But when it's my own car I'm a bit more nervous, seeing as my 'track' car is my only car! The nearest track to me in Essex is Brands Hatch, so I was looking at what they offer and I'm a bit confused on what route to go.
So first of all I clicked on Driver Training which points you to a full-day course costing £399.
But if you click on a link for Brands Hatch it says £245 for the day... £250 for a one hour driving lesson... £648 for the track academy. None of which tally's up with the above!
But there's more! If you try and book a General track day, you can then book driver instruction for only £25!?
There are also Novice track days... so maybe that's the one to go for. I don't know lol.
I would book a track day (novice or not) and get 2 or 3 20min sessions. Ideally one to start with and perhaps mid-morning. And then early PM. The main thing is to leave time to practice all the stuff you have learnt in between sessions. Full day tuition is not always the best as the brain can only cope with so much information.
A novice day would be divided into probably 3 groups of 20 minute sessions without any race cars. Good if you wanted to not be worrying about faster drivers and concentrating on technique and you'd get 20 mins of instruction for £25. If you get that early then the rest of the day is building on that. I found these were good for building technique from slow speeds but then I think you get to a stage where you are faster than a lot of other people who are complete novices and aren't very predictable in their actions.
On a standard open pitlane day there's going to be a bit more concentrating on your mirrors but at least there's no waiting for your next session. Instruction is going to be the same, get it booked early and then work on technique through the day. Its easy to play at trying either a technique or line for 10-15 mins then having a think then trying it again without sitting around. The only downside is when your trying to concentrate on lines and braking and there's a load of Caterhams swarming your ass!
On a standard open pitlane day there's going to be a bit more concentrating on your mirrors but at least there's no waiting for your next session. Instruction is going to be the same, get it booked early and then work on technique through the day. Its easy to play at trying either a technique or line for 10-15 mins then having a think then trying it again without sitting around. The only downside is when your trying to concentrate on lines and braking and there's a load of Caterhams swarming your ass!
I'd agree with most of the above. If you are happy enough to get out there on a normal trackday then do that and book a couple of sessions with the organiser to pick up some tips. I instruct for a couple of TDOs and for a lot of drivers it's a good way to progress without taking it all too seriously.
If you want something more intensive then most instructors will do coaching on a day-rate and be with you for the full trackday. Ideally if you are doing it this way you want someone recommended as it can be very effective but only if you get the right guy. I don't get to Brands much (too much mileage) but I could hook you up with a good instructor down that way if you wanted to go there.
Alternatively if you do a few trackdays with short sessions booked and get along with a particular instructor, ask him if he would do a full day with you.
HTH
Steve H
If you want something more intensive then most instructors will do coaching on a day-rate and be with you for the full trackday. Ideally if you are doing it this way you want someone recommended as it can be very effective but only if you get the right guy. I don't get to Brands much (too much mileage) but I could hook you up with a good instructor down that way if you wanted to go there.
Alternatively if you do a few trackdays with short sessions booked and get along with a particular instructor, ask him if he would do a full day with you.
HTH
Steve H
raddog said:
A novice day would be divided into probably 3 groups of 20 minute sessions without any race cars. Good if you wanted to not be worrying about faster drivers and concentrating on technique and you'd get 20 mins of instruction for £25. If you get that early then the rest of the day is building on that. I found these were good for building technique from slow speeds but then I think you get to a stage where you are faster than a lot of other people who are complete novices and aren't very predictable in their actions.
On a standard open pitlane day there's going to be a bit more concentrating on your mirrors but at least there's no waiting for your next session. Instruction is going to be the same, get it booked early and then work on technique through the day. Its easy to play at trying either a technique or line for 10-15 mins then having a think then trying it again without sitting around. The only downside is when your trying to concentrate on lines and braking and there's a load of Caterhams swarming your ass!
It's not our fault all the lardy cars take so long to stop On a standard open pitlane day there's going to be a bit more concentrating on your mirrors but at least there's no waiting for your next session. Instruction is going to be the same, get it booked early and then work on technique through the day. Its easy to play at trying either a technique or line for 10-15 mins then having a think then trying it again without sitting around. The only downside is when your trying to concentrate on lines and braking and there's a load of Caterhams swarming your ass!
Jokes aside, I'd agree with the above. You don't need to be worrying about caterhams swarming your arse - pretty much ignore everyone behind you, except for taking a look on the straights, and moving over/ lift a bit now and then on if you've got a queue. 99.9% of folks are sensible and well beaved with respect to overtaking. I've had more 'uh-oh' moments with overly polite folks trying to get out of the way mid corner (which you shouldn't do..)
Otherwise, don't be too intimidated, take some instruction and build up gently also as said, it's worth going to a larger track with more room. Brands isn't that great IMHO. Not everyone will agree, but I'm a big fan of bedford for runoff and consequently ability to stuff up without large penalty. Snett is a good shout too.
The instruction you book as a bolt on to a trackday is generally one session of 20 or 25 minutes, if you are brand new to trackdays, you want to get up to speed quickly and you have the money I'd recommend booking an open pit lane trackday and finding somebody who'll spend at least half a day with you. I'd echo the comments about Brands Hatch, it gets pretty congested.
upsidedownmark said:
Not everyone will agree, but I'm a big fan of bedford for runoff and consequently ability to stuff up without large penalty. Snett is a good shout too.
I don't agree Bedford is imprecise to drive in many places and as a result it's less interesting to drive and tricky to instruct on. Too many corners that can be taken incorrectly without it being obvious, too wide to see clear lines and takes most novices too long to learn which makes it hard to work on anything aside from trying to remember what's coming up next.
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I agree about Snett though
.Thanks for the tips guys, really helpful! It seems as if there are no novice days available at Snetterton though, which is a shame.
So I guess the choice is between a regular track day and booking tuition (at Snetterton) or doing a novice day at Brands Hatch. I do like that the novice days are split into 6x 20 minute sessions though, that would really suit me. They're all booked up for the year now but I don't mind waiting until next year, unfortunately I have an eye disorder meaning I cannot drive when it gets dark... so it's a bit harder for me to get home when the nights start drawing in.
So I guess the choice is between a regular track day and booking tuition (at Snetterton) or doing a novice day at Brands Hatch. I do like that the novice days are split into 6x 20 minute sessions though, that would really suit me. They're all booked up for the year now but I don't mind waiting until next year, unfortunately I have an eye disorder meaning I cannot drive when it gets dark... so it's a bit harder for me to get home when the nights start drawing in.
Steve H said:
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I think it's mainly because different people like different things. I think Rockingham is totally pants / mickey mouse and I'd probably start playing chess rather than going there instead of Bedford.I quite like Bedford as it offers a huge variety of different corners / challenges. It's not my first choice as it's hard on brakes and featureless indeed but for me it easily beats Rockingham.
Steve H said:
I don't agree
Bedford is imprecise to drive in many places and as a result it's less interesting to drive and tricky to instruct on. Too many corners that can be taken incorrectly without it being obvious, too wide to see clear lines and takes most novices too long to learn which makes it hard to work on anything aside from trying to remember what's coming up next.
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I agree about Snett though.
that's a bit harsh on Bedford! "imprecise"? The corners are quite technical, i suspect designed by JP??Bedford is imprecise to drive in many places and as a result it's less interesting to drive and tricky to instruct on. Too many corners that can be taken incorrectly without it being obvious, too wide to see clear lines and takes most novices too long to learn which makes it hard to work on anything aside from trying to remember what's coming up next.
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I agree about Snett though
.I can see why instructing there might be tricky, as you say it's long and and maybe wrong lines aren't so obvious to a learner.
OP, if you were hot at karting then i can't see you being a nervous novice? i say avoid novice days, go somewhere daytime during the week and get 2-3 instruction slots.
if you're close to Blyton then the Car Limits circuit training there is excellent. Max 4 cars and on track all day for £250. Andy is ex-F1 and explains the physics with a terse, dry, Welsh humour! But seriously, it's good muscle-memory day: drive-mistakes-instruction-practice-instruction....tiring day.
Not trying to be harsh on Bedford it's just what I've found in ten years instructing and how I've seen novices progress there compared to at other tracks.
A lot of less experienced drivers do find the space reassuring but reassurance and actual safety are not necessarily the same thing and in any case the OP was asking about how to progress and I don't think Bedford is the best option, with or without tuition.
Regarding the layout, yes I'm sure JP had an big input on it but he was designing four individual tracks that were to be used for corporate entertainment where people would drive a layout for 15 minutes then move on to the next activity; I'm sure putting them together to make one trackday circuit was not a priority.
I'm not trying to say that Bedford has no redeeming features but I do think there are better options not far away for fun and for progression/training .
A lot of less experienced drivers do find the space reassuring but reassurance and actual safety are not necessarily the same thing and in any case the OP was asking about how to progress and I don't think Bedford is the best option, with or without tuition.
Regarding the layout, yes I'm sure JP had an big input on it but he was designing four individual tracks that were to be used for corporate entertainment where people would drive a layout for 15 minutes then move on to the next activity; I'm sure putting them together to make one trackday circuit was not a priority.
I'm not trying to say that Bedford has no redeeming features but I do think there are better options not far away for fun and for progression/training
. CABC said:
Steve H said:
I don't agree
Bedford is imprecise to drive in many places and as a result it's less interesting to drive and tricky to instruct on. Too many corners that can be taken incorrectly without it being obvious, too wide to see clear lines and takes most novices too long to learn which makes it hard to work on anything aside from trying to remember what's coming up next.
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I agree about Snett though.
that's a bit harsh on Bedford! "imprecise"? The corners are quite technical, i suspect designed by JP??Bedford is imprecise to drive in many places and as a result it's less interesting to drive and tricky to instruct on. Too many corners that can be taken incorrectly without it being obvious, too wide to see clear lines and takes most novices too long to learn which makes it hard to work on anything aside from trying to remember what's coming up next.
I can't understand why people go there in preference to Rockingham which is just up the road (I know, I know, Bedford is relatively safe. So is driving properly, or chess; try either in preference to Bedford).
I agree about Snett though
.I can see why instructing there might be tricky, as you say it's long and and maybe wrong lines aren't so obvious to a learner.
OP, if you were hot at karting then i can't see you being a nervous novice? i say avoid novice days, go somewhere daytime during the week and get 2-3 instruction slots.
if you're close to Blyton then the Car Limits circuit training there is excellent. Max 4 cars and on track all day for £250. Andy is ex-F1 and explains the physics with a terse, dry, Welsh humour! But seriously, it's good muscle-memory day: drive-mistakes-instruction-practice-instruction....tiring day.
kayzee said:
Still only done karting a few times, and it was years ago! I think the main difference is it being your own car... when I was out on Donnington Park last month, I did have running through my mind, 'I'm 4 hours away from home with my girlfriend and 10 month old son, if I knacker this how the hell am I getting home' lol.
yep, i know! that's why i prepped an old mx5 for track to save my Elise (and its 2 expensive, unavailable and fragile clams).Top tip, drive well within 10/10 and build up slowly to 9.5/10
remove the pressure of 10/10ths and relax.
funny thing about starting slower and getting faster is that you'll get into the flow progressively and probably end up quite fast, but you'll feel in control. This is such an obvious statement, and yet.....
Also, Dony is quite fast, especially in a car you fear wrecking.
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