Track Day Mods - £1800 best spent - E36
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Over the last 15 years i have been driving pretty new modified cars - basically highly polished cars that I park at the furthest reaches of tescos car park, when I eventually get the balls to take them on a track day, the insurance costs coupled with the track day cost makes it a yearly event. (I'm usually with the wrong insurance company e.g. I would need to go external for track cover at £80 - £120 a pop depending on what car I had at the time) So I've still got my show car / garage queen and I have just bought my self this week a daily / track e36 323i saloon. I plan on keeping the car long term so there are a few wee issues I need to iron out prior to the mods rolling in.
My aim is to keep this as much as possible a "functional daily" without compromising track capability as this was the Main motivation for the purchase - The car will be used for, taking the kids to school, camping trips, trips to Europe, moutinain biking, shopping, runs to the tip and as much track days as I can afford in the year - I don't plan on buying track insurance, As the car is reasonably cheap, so I should be able to get a few more days in.
Ok so down to the mods, anything that needs replacing as they are worn I plan on replacing with uprated parts this will not come out of my modification budget e.g. If my bushes go then I will replace with superpros, once the standard tyres are worn I will fire on a set of federal road / track items or similar. So basically the Mods will consist of items that should really be classed as non wearable items / or track nesessities (I would be happy to replace wishbone bushes etc as part of the mod budget if worthwhile at this stage)
Not included in the budget are the following, which I already have lying around
2x front bucket seats
Steering wheel
17" rota grid wheels
300mm carrier carriers, new disks, brass sliders, braided lines, fluid (No pads yet)
Ultimately the car needs to be fun as opposed to competitive, I'm not looking for massive grip with slicks, but a competent reliable track car. The main focus should probably be on the Handeling and brakes with ideally a little bit of power increase as well, I know I'm asking a lot with only a £1800.00 budget. I've not got a clue about what items are required to obtain the best geometry so any advice here would be greatly appreciated. I'm happy enough to source items from other bmw models or second hand items to reduce the costs.
My initial thoughts / list is as follows
POWER
M50 inlet £250
Second hand 328i exhaust £150
BRAKES
Cooling ducts £80
Pads front and rear (Any recommendations) £300
SUSPENSION
Bilstein b14 Coilovers £620
Front and rear strengthening plates £80
Rear Mehyl HD top mounts £20
M3 front top Mounts fitted in reverse £100
OTHER
Short shifter £100
So that's about £1,700.00
Any suggestions or additions would be great, e.g. Anti roll bars from another model of BM ? Etc
Please note track tuition will be purchased out with the list - cheers !
Over the last 15 years i have been driving pretty new modified cars - basically highly polished cars that I park at the furthest reaches of tescos car park, when I eventually get the balls to take them on a track day, the insurance costs coupled with the track day cost makes it a yearly event. (I'm usually with the wrong insurance company e.g. I would need to go external for track cover at £80 - £120 a pop depending on what car I had at the time) So I've still got my show car / garage queen and I have just bought my self this week a daily / track e36 323i saloon. I plan on keeping the car long term so there are a few wee issues I need to iron out prior to the mods rolling in.
My aim is to keep this as much as possible a "functional daily" without compromising track capability as this was the Main motivation for the purchase - The car will be used for, taking the kids to school, camping trips, trips to Europe, moutinain biking, shopping, runs to the tip and as much track days as I can afford in the year - I don't plan on buying track insurance, As the car is reasonably cheap, so I should be able to get a few more days in.
Ok so down to the mods, anything that needs replacing as they are worn I plan on replacing with uprated parts this will not come out of my modification budget e.g. If my bushes go then I will replace with superpros, once the standard tyres are worn I will fire on a set of federal road / track items or similar. So basically the Mods will consist of items that should really be classed as non wearable items / or track nesessities (I would be happy to replace wishbone bushes etc as part of the mod budget if worthwhile at this stage)
Not included in the budget are the following, which I already have lying around
2x front bucket seats
Steering wheel
17" rota grid wheels
300mm carrier carriers, new disks, brass sliders, braided lines, fluid (No pads yet)
Ultimately the car needs to be fun as opposed to competitive, I'm not looking for massive grip with slicks, but a competent reliable track car. The main focus should probably be on the Handeling and brakes with ideally a little bit of power increase as well, I know I'm asking a lot with only a £1800.00 budget. I've not got a clue about what items are required to obtain the best geometry so any advice here would be greatly appreciated. I'm happy enough to source items from other bmw models or second hand items to reduce the costs.
My initial thoughts / list is as follows
POWER
M50 inlet £250
Second hand 328i exhaust £150
BRAKES
Cooling ducts £80
Pads front and rear (Any recommendations) £300
SUSPENSION
Bilstein b14 Coilovers £620
Front and rear strengthening plates £80
Rear Mehyl HD top mounts £20
M3 front top Mounts fitted in reverse £100
OTHER
Short shifter £100
So that's about £1,700.00
Any suggestions or additions would be great, e.g. Anti roll bars from another model of BM ? Etc
Please note track tuition will be purchased out with the list - cheers !
Edited by Reidtastic on Friday 11th August 17:24
Few little things, the exhaust is well worth addressing but the M50 manifold will cost you performance UNTIL you have a remap to suit. End Tuning are the go-to for a lot of BMW folks and he's very clued up, it's not internet hype 
Coilovers, as long as you have good and proper damping adjustment (some brands it doesn't seem to do much) then happy days for a compromise, Billies are always a good shout. May be worth some bigger ARB's, Eibach / H&R etc, to limit body roll with the (relatively) soft springs which suspension that has to cope with the road will have.
Wheels, you can probably get Pro Races or a used set of something to save off the scene Rota wheel bill and still have the lightness.
For pads probably DS3000's for the track, up front at least, with the chubby Beemers but maybe worth switching in stockers for rolling around the road, no heat to make a pad which will tolerate the track use work for daily life really.
The cross brace under the car is supposed to be worthwhile, from the floppy convertible, if you can find one, probably aftermarket versions nowadays. The strengthening plates you mention are a good move too.
Otherwise make sure the car's happy and healthy, fluids, bushes etc, and have fun
Coilovers, as long as you have good and proper damping adjustment (some brands it doesn't seem to do much) then happy days for a compromise, Billies are always a good shout. May be worth some bigger ARB's, Eibach / H&R etc, to limit body roll with the (relatively) soft springs which suspension that has to cope with the road will have.
Wheels, you can probably get Pro Races or a used set of something to save off the scene Rota wheel bill and still have the lightness.
For pads probably DS3000's for the track, up front at least, with the chubby Beemers but maybe worth switching in stockers for rolling around the road, no heat to make a pad which will tolerate the track use work for daily life really.
The cross brace under the car is supposed to be worthwhile, from the floppy convertible, if you can find one, probably aftermarket versions nowadays. The strengthening plates you mention are a good move too.
Otherwise make sure the car's happy and healthy, fluids, bushes etc, and have fun
Cheers guys !
The bilsteins are B14 so non adjustable (height only) I had KW v1 before and these were pretty good and well judged, I figured the bilsteins would be better still, - The b12 I also had were great but too soft for what I'm looking for, I don't need the extra expense of new springs re-valving etc on these - GAZ golds may also be an option - but a bit out my budget in relation to other spends
Re pads I've had DS2500 and PF carbons before both were pretty good but was looking to build on them a little so 3000 could be an option.
Julian - do you have any idea if the cross brace is a direct fit to the saloon body ?
Jim - what bushes would you say made the most difference
The bilsteins are B14 so non adjustable (height only) I had KW v1 before and these were pretty good and well judged, I figured the bilsteins would be better still, - The b12 I also had were great but too soft for what I'm looking for, I don't need the extra expense of new springs re-valving etc on these - GAZ golds may also be an option - but a bit out my budget in relation to other spends
Re pads I've had DS2500 and PF carbons before both were pretty good but was looking to build on them a little so 3000 could be an option.
Julian - do you have any idea if the cross brace is a direct fit to the saloon body ?
Jim - what bushes would you say made the most difference
If it were my money (it was a couple of years ago) I would be going Spax RSX as they are adjustable for damping & they are very good on a budget.
Not sure if the 323 sees much difference with an M50 manifold, wouldn't bother personally.
PROPER CAI is a must, "Dave F" type is well thought of as being the best.
Remove air intake & replace with smoother straight/elbow in silicone.
Exhaust is a must, 328 is a good start, if the car is pre '94 remove the cats, 325 might be lighter but isn't stainless. My 325 responded will to "Powerflow" centre/rear in stainless with 328 (less restrictive/more tubular) manifolds for just £250 for the exhaust, manifolds on ebay.
Remap after all engine/exhaust/inlet mods on the rolling road is vital to get the best out of it.
Poly bushes all round is a must, as is remove as much weight as you can.
Not sure if the 323 sees much difference with an M50 manifold, wouldn't bother personally.
PROPER CAI is a must, "Dave F" type is well thought of as being the best.
Remove air intake & replace with smoother straight/elbow in silicone.
Exhaust is a must, 328 is a good start, if the car is pre '94 remove the cats, 325 might be lighter but isn't stainless. My 325 responded will to "Powerflow" centre/rear in stainless with 328 (less restrictive/more tubular) manifolds for just £250 for the exhaust, manifolds on ebay.
Remap after all engine/exhaust/inlet mods on the rolling road is vital to get the best out of it.
Poly bushes all round is a must, as is remove as much weight as you can.
fesuvious said:
Tuition comes first.
Far better to be comfortable on track, confident in your surroundings first.
It is only then your mind will be free enough to think about the car. You can go out on track in any car and have huge developmental and hooning fun.
You can go out in a mosler, or GT or even just a well put together low level race car but if you're not confident you will 'waste' 2 or 3 days learning to be comfortable in your surroundings.
Plus, good instruction will help highlight how to understand the car. Many drivers have 'identified failings in the chassis' without realising it is their own inability to understand chassis dyanamics and how to handle a car properly that leads them to a pointless and expensive solution.
'I need better rear tyres' can also mean 'I have zero understanding how to apply throttle'
'Stiffer suspension will allow me to go flat through Craner' can also mean 'I have no idea how to balance a car for turn-in'.
And, 'I need better brakes' means nothing if you're cooking the damn things through being on them way too much!'?
Best advice is here.Far better to be comfortable on track, confident in your surroundings first.
It is only then your mind will be free enough to think about the car. You can go out on track in any car and have huge developmental and hooning fun.
You can go out in a mosler, or GT or even just a well put together low level race car but if you're not confident you will 'waste' 2 or 3 days learning to be comfortable in your surroundings.
Plus, good instruction will help highlight how to understand the car. Many drivers have 'identified failings in the chassis' without realising it is their own inability to understand chassis dyanamics and how to handle a car properly that leads them to a pointless and expensive solution.
'I need better rear tyres' can also mean 'I have zero understanding how to apply throttle'
'Stiffer suspension will allow me to go flat through Craner' can also mean 'I have no idea how to balance a car for turn-in'.
And, 'I need better brakes' means nothing if you're cooking the damn things through being on them way too much!'?
iguana said:
Surprised you'd go for a 323 over a 328 with a lot more easily releasable grunt from the 2.8 from just bolt ons I've got within 20bhp of my m3s, but anyway all chassis & brake mods are same,can't help ref the 323 no experience of it.
The bilstein you like are not bad, I've run then on track before. In fact if you search I've waffle tons on e36 suspension I've run lots, as above tho not much on tiny budget to match spax as are damping adjustable, all stock ups unless custom specced are a tad soft as stock for proper tracking but ive run on various types for years ok even at pretty low spring rates & as the road/track use you envisage ok & spring rates are easily upped (you can spec springs from the BC & hsd range from stock but are a couple of hundred £ larger budget)
X brace hmm pos a difference with soft spring rates, imho only worth doing if you can pick up cheap, some direct fit, some you'll need riv nuts, not a big job.
Brakes tons of choice, run em light & i stick to stock sizes personally, but the e46 upgrade is well rated or e36 m3 but not cheap to find anymore so e46 330 etc more favoured. I'd not go ds2500 tho, the rs29 really great but pricy, Ds 1.11 ebmw rates as nearly as good but far less, squeal like mad on road tho, are a new if you can bad Ebc yellow at race price worth a try, very Marmite pad but I've used for years & got on fine, mintex 1155 ok 1166 better.
No need for cooling ducts if has the stock same duct set up as a 328, just remove the backing plates for cooling.
An m3 LSD 3.15 (3.0) or a 3.23 (evo) dif will liven it up revs wise far too long geared as stock.
Give it min 2.5deg ish neg camber front prob no more if a road car, rears just max stock adjustment.
Engine mounts go easily & if you run the viscous can cost you a rad, uprated better don't waste dosh on m3 ones i have a budget option off 325 solid rubber no voids as per 328 I'll search for part nums.
If photobucket works engine mount part nos- if if no pic shows, click link it should be visible thenThe bilstein you like are not bad, I've run then on track before. In fact if you search I've waffle tons on e36 suspension I've run lots, as above tho not much on tiny budget to match spax as are damping adjustable, all stock ups unless custom specced are a tad soft as stock for proper tracking but ive run on various types for years ok even at pretty low spring rates & as the road/track use you envisage ok & spring rates are easily upped (you can spec springs from the BC & hsd range from stock but are a couple of hundred £ larger budget)
X brace hmm pos a difference with soft spring rates, imho only worth doing if you can pick up cheap, some direct fit, some you'll need riv nuts, not a big job.
Brakes tons of choice, run em light & i stick to stock sizes personally, but the e46 upgrade is well rated or e36 m3 but not cheap to find anymore so e46 330 etc more favoured. I'd not go ds2500 tho, the rs29 really great but pricy, Ds 1.11 ebmw rates as nearly as good but far less, squeal like mad on road tho, are a new if you can bad Ebc yellow at race price worth a try, very Marmite pad but I've used for years & got on fine, mintex 1155 ok 1166 better.
No need for cooling ducts if has the stock same duct set up as a 328, just remove the backing plates for cooling.
An m3 LSD 3.15 (3.0) or a 3.23 (evo) dif will liven it up revs wise far too long geared as stock.
Give it min 2.5deg ish neg camber front prob no more if a road car, rears just max stock adjustment.
Engine mounts go easily & if you run the viscous can cost you a rad, uprated better don't waste dosh on m3 ones i have a budget option off 325 solid rubber no voids as per 328 I'll search for part nums.
http://s409.photobucket.com/user/teamlizardracing/...
Edited by iguana on Saturday 12th August 13:21
Keep it coming guys - brilliant
Re - instruction as per my post this will be completed but not in my budget, I've had this before on track days and very worth while.
i was initially looking at an 328i however really struggled to get a non nikasil and manual, e.g. Late R reg or above - the 323i came up at the right time in the right place (1 owner car with 70k on the clock and not a single spec of corrosion anywhere - spend most of its life in Italy) I have had a 325i before and I was happy with the power on this, I believe a few mods takes back to this power as the engines are essentially the same, outwith block material.
Yep stripping will also be on the hit list aswell, I'll hopefully get rid of 20-30 kg without sacrificing much
Do the mounts make a big difference to movement or would vibratechniks make more of a difference ?
Can anyone shed some light on the radiator / fan issue / upgrade ?
Thanks regarding geometry, I think the reversed m3 top mounts achieve this, really fancy the diff aswell but they are pretty pricy - is the difference in acceleration noticeable ? E.g. I could maybe trade of some mods for the diff if it's worthwhile.
I'll also check to see if ducts are already fitted as standard I just assumed they were not - cheers
Re - instruction as per my post this will be completed but not in my budget, I've had this before on track days and very worth while.
i was initially looking at an 328i however really struggled to get a non nikasil and manual, e.g. Late R reg or above - the 323i came up at the right time in the right place (1 owner car with 70k on the clock and not a single spec of corrosion anywhere - spend most of its life in Italy) I have had a 325i before and I was happy with the power on this, I believe a few mods takes back to this power as the engines are essentially the same, outwith block material.
Yep stripping will also be on the hit list aswell, I'll hopefully get rid of 20-30 kg without sacrificing much
Do the mounts make a big difference to movement or would vibratechniks make more of a difference ?
Can anyone shed some light on the radiator / fan issue / upgrade ?
Thanks regarding geometry, I think the reversed m3 top mounts achieve this, really fancy the diff aswell but they are pretty pricy - is the difference in acceleration noticeable ? E.g. I could maybe trade of some mods for the diff if it's worthwhile.
I'll also check to see if ducts are already fitted as standard I just assumed they were not - cheers
Edited by Reidtastic on Sunday 13th August 09:40
As the owner of e36 M3 Compact
I would agree with tuition to start with.
I would then say tyres and brakes.
Be aware that every track modification you make, makes it's less useable as a daily and more of a pain to live with.
I would also say a LSD is a priority.
anything engine tuning wise is only going to make you faster in straight line, which is obviously fun, but anybody can go fast in straight line...
I would agree with tuition to start with.
I would then say tyres and brakes.
Be aware that every track modification you make, makes it's less useable as a daily and more of a pain to live with.
I would also say a LSD is a priority.
anything engine tuning wise is only going to make you faster in straight line, which is obviously fun, but anybody can go fast in straight line...
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