Michelin tell me...
Discussion
In advance of a few trackways over the next 2 months, I have decided I need some new tyres on my E90 M3. Michelin Pilot Sports are the recommended choice, but they are rather old now, so I phoned BMW to ask if they could supply and fit either a set of Cup2s or Pilot Sport 4Ss. BMW said that the Cup2s are not approved, and they have no listing for the PS4Ss.
Having seen some review of the new tyres, including evo magazines recent tyre test, I didn't want to go back to a Super Sport or something older. So I went to my local ATS Euromaster and asked what he could supply. And he phoned Michelin.
Michelin said that I could get a faster hotly from the PS4Ss that the Cup2s, with a longer life, better wet performance and cheaper price too!
Has anyone else had any experience of these two tyres?
Having seen some review of the new tyres, including evo magazines recent tyre test, I didn't want to go back to a Super Sport or something older. So I went to my local ATS Euromaster and asked what he could supply. And he phoned Michelin.
Michelin said that I could get a faster hotly from the PS4Ss that the Cup2s, with a longer life, better wet performance and cheaper price too!
Has anyone else had any experience of these two tyres?
'BMW Approval' is nothing but a marketing tie-in - and you'll find the non-starred tyres will do just as well (just don't go for Porsche N0/N1/Nx ones as they are different).
I'm surprised you even bothered asking the dealer to source/price tyres! Last time I asked they were asking more for 1 (£340) than I was regularly paying for 2 (£160 each).
I had 'BMW Approved' Conti M3 tyres on my Z4MC when I bought it...and thought they were worse than the old Pirellis I had on my e34 M5. A quick change to PS2s (non BMW-approved), and latterly onto SuperSports has made the car much more enjoyable - with the benefit of making it a safer drive, and doubling the mileage I get out of them.
Just put your sizes into Camskill or one of the other 100 or so online tyre places, and you'll see what's available.
I'm guessing you're running 18's as the 19's are available in PS4S and Cup2 (according to the Michelin website - although only the Cup2 and SuperSports are BMW star marked).
If it's on 18's, then you're in the same boat as me, as I believe the PS4S won't be available in 18s for the Z4MC, and don't think the Cup2s will suit a daily driver...so I'll have to either stockpile SuperSports or try the cooking PS4 when I need a new set.
I'm surprised you even bothered asking the dealer to source/price tyres! Last time I asked they were asking more for 1 (£340) than I was regularly paying for 2 (£160 each).
I had 'BMW Approved' Conti M3 tyres on my Z4MC when I bought it...and thought they were worse than the old Pirellis I had on my e34 M5. A quick change to PS2s (non BMW-approved), and latterly onto SuperSports has made the car much more enjoyable - with the benefit of making it a safer drive, and doubling the mileage I get out of them.
Just put your sizes into Camskill or one of the other 100 or so online tyre places, and you'll see what's available.
I'm guessing you're running 18's as the 19's are available in PS4S and Cup2 (according to the Michelin website - although only the Cup2 and SuperSports are BMW star marked).
If it's on 18's, then you're in the same boat as me, as I believe the PS4S won't be available in 18s for the Z4MC, and don't think the Cup2s will suit a daily driver...so I'll have to either stockpile SuperSports or try the cooking PS4 when I need a new set.
FurryBear said:
BMW said that the Cup2s are not approved, and they have no listing for the PS4Ss.
Seriously? Unless you're car is under some sort of Porsche-esque warranty (see N rating remarks above), who gives a fudge?
PS4S are 19" and above only, PS4 is 18s and smaller...
I went from the PZeros my M3 came on (not bad but old, and tyre technology has moved on), to MPSS (OEM 19s in 235/265 size). A much better tyre all round and surprisingly hard wearing.
I then bought some OEM 18s and researched several tyres before deciding on Cup 2s (again, 235/265 size). Another huge improvement over the MPSS and rides better too. The MPSS were fairly good at Cadwell and the Nurburgring GP circuit but started to overheat after 12-15 minutes as both circuits are hard on tyres and brakes - no problem on the Nordschleife.
Cup 2s (along with a BBK) took over 3 secs off my Cadwell laptime and 22s off my BTG. They're phenomenal!!! No sign of overheating yet and hardly any wear - 1 x Cadwell trackday, 10ish laps of the Ring and about 1500 miles. Also, they didn't try to kill me in the wet, unlike the original Cups!
I always compare tyre prices online and usually end up buying from Camskill or Tyreleader. Last set was approx £780 delivered + £10 fitment a corner at my local Tyre-fitters...
You won't regret Cup 2s! Expensive, but worth it.
Jim1556 said:
Seriously? Unless you're car is under some sort of Porsche-esque warranty (see N rating remarks above), who gives a fudge?
PS4S are 19" and above only, PS4 is 18s and smaller...
I went from the PZeros my M3 came on (not bad but old, and tyre technology has moved on), to MPSS (OEM 19s in 235/265 size). A much better tyre all round and surprisingly hard wearing.
I then bought some OEM 18s and researched several tyres before deciding on Cup 2s (again, 235/265 size). Another huge improvement over the MPSS and rides better too. The MPSS were fairly good at Cadwell and the Nurburgring GP circuit but started to overheat after 12-15 minutes as both circuits are hard on tyres and brakes - no problem on the Nordschleife.
Cup 2s (along with a BBK) took over 3 secs off my Cadwell laptime and 22s off my BTG. They're phenomenal!!! No sign of overheating yet and hardly any wear - 1 x Cadwell trackday, 10ish laps of the Ring and about 1500 miles. Also, they didn't try to kill me in the wet, unlike the original Cups!
I always compare tyre prices online and usually end up buying from Camskill or Tyreleader. Last set was approx £780 delivered + £10 fitment a corner at my local Tyre-fitters...
You won't regret Cup 2s! Expensive, but worth it.
Ignoring wear life and wet performance how have you found the Cup 2 compare in ultimate dry lap time against Cup 1? I've googled but can't seem to find a comparison test between the two.
Never had the pleasure of the original Cups, they don't sell 'em anymore...
From what I've heard, I believe they're nearly as good as Cup 2s, but much better in the wet and have a far better wear rate.
My last track tyres were Federal RS-Rs, very good value, but Cup 2s are better, more predictable.
From what I've heard, I believe they're nearly as good as Cup 2s, but much better in the wet and have a far better wear rate.
My last track tyres were Federal RS-Rs, very good value, but Cup 2s are better, more predictable.
Edited by Jim1556 on Sunday 6th August 21:29
FurryBear said:
jon- said:
I'd prefer the PSS to the PS4S on track as it has a stiffer carcass and is more direct.
I'm about to bolt on a set up cup 2 on my m3, which currently has PS4Ss on.
Please let me know how you get on with them. Oh, and which M3 do you have?I'm about to bolt on a set up cup 2 on my m3, which currently has PS4Ss on.
jon- said:
E92. You can see my full (long and boring) thoughts on the PSS vs PS4S here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
Oh, your'e THAT Jon. I just recently subscribed to your channel. Hopefully we can meet up at an event sometimeFurryBear said:
jon- said:
E92. You can see my full (long and boring) thoughts on the PSS vs PS4S here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
Oh, your'e THAT Jon. I just recently subscribed to your channel. Hopefully we can meet up at an event sometime
I'll keep this thread updated as I get the Cups on for road use. Will be doing a track comparison too, but I'm not sure when, where or what car I'll be doing it with.
Having spent the last weekend at the Nurburgring with various mates on various Michelins, I can say that:
The Pilot Sport 4S (on a 997 GT3 at least), is a decent, predictable, gripp... BUY THE CUP 2s!
But seriously, if you're going anywhere near a track. Buy the Cup 2s.
I've been running the 4S on mine which I thought was a decent sports tyre, but once I'd had a ride in my mate's Porker I knew within a corner which would be my next purchase. Absolutely worth the extra money. Almost slick-like performance, you don't get into the inevitable overheated standard road tyre situation of managing understeer after a few laps. It allows you to get away with doing things you really shouldn't be able to with the weight distribution of the car - I can only imagine it'll make a front engined car extremely agile.
One additional note: I don't think the PS4 is that stiff, I lost a little turn-in precision when I changed from the old Pilot Sport 2 to the 4. A little more outright grip, granted, but some of that original front end telepathy has gone.
The Pilot Sport 4S (on a 997 GT3 at least), is a decent, predictable, gripp... BUY THE CUP 2s!
But seriously, if you're going anywhere near a track. Buy the Cup 2s.
I've been running the 4S on mine which I thought was a decent sports tyre, but once I'd had a ride in my mate's Porker I knew within a corner which would be my next purchase. Absolutely worth the extra money. Almost slick-like performance, you don't get into the inevitable overheated standard road tyre situation of managing understeer after a few laps. It allows you to get away with doing things you really shouldn't be able to with the weight distribution of the car - I can only imagine it'll make a front engined car extremely agile.
One additional note: I don't think the PS4 is that stiff, I lost a little turn-in precision when I changed from the old Pilot Sport 2 to the 4. A little more outright grip, granted, but some of that original front end telepathy has gone.
Having done a few trackdays in a standard M2 fitted with Cup2 I'd recommend it. The DSC and ABS are not fully optimised for the additional grip but it won't be too much of a hindrance and the majority of drivers won't feel much difference in the intervention levels.
Additionally, I run Cup2s on my Megane all year round and love them, I even pulled 1.2g at Spa last month once up to temp and pressure.
Additionally, I run Cup2s on my Megane all year round and love them, I even pulled 1.2g at Spa last month once up to temp and pressure.
jon- said:
I'd prefer the PSS to the PS4S on track as it has a stiffer carcass and is more direct.
Really surprised as I found the PSS have very soft sidewalls and structure, even for a road tyre. I can't imagine how soft the PS4S must be.They can normally only cope with 3/4 hot laps, unsurprisingly for a road tyre.
OP, I would suggest AD08R for a "road friendly" track focused tyre as a possible alternative to Cup2s.
nickfrog said:
jon- said:
I'd prefer the PSS to the PS4S on track as it has a stiffer carcass and is more direct.
Really surprised as I found the PSS have very soft sidewalls and structure, even for a road tyre. I can't imagine how soft the PS4S must be.They can normally only cope with 3/4 hot laps, unsurprisingly for a road tyre.
OP, I would suggest AD08R for a "road friendly" track focused tyre as a possible alternative to Cup2s.
I really love the Cups on the (dry) road. Wet testing TBC
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