Avon ZZR

[gruffalo]

I just thought I would ask people's opinions on these tyres.

I normally use the Kumho V70's which seem to work well on my Cerbera but was just wondering about the Avon's since a friend raved about them.

The TVR is about 1100kg and stiffened over the normal Cerberas and running well over 450bhp and is quite gentle on tyres.

Thoughts please?

[E-bmw]

Over the years I have done much homework looking at tyres & tyre choices when changing them & normally spend a bit of time( yeah, I know, sad git) on tyrereviews.com there is a tab on every tyre "all tests" which shows you the test results from all magazines comparisons etc and also a section on the reviews from average joe.

I tend to follow recommendations from professional testers rather than average joe, but both can be helpful.

[gruffalo]

Their results would indicate that the Kumho is the better tyre.

Just wondering people's own feelings on them and if anyone had compared.

Edited by gruffalo on Monday 1st May 07:22

[Order66]

E-bmw said:

I tend to follow recommendations from professional testers rather than average joe, but both can be helpful.

Which of these magazines/testers are doing track tests on tyres? I'd like to know.

Fine for some communting boots for your winter hack, but you'll find a far richer depth of information from "average joe" on web forums regarding track tyres.

As for the OPs question. I did a few laps on brand new ZZRs at the weekend. Was very impressed - the feel was great, seemed to come in quickly (even in cold ambient temps) . However I have read some comments from competitors that they are concerned generally about Avon rubber and its ability to sustain repeated heat cycling. I wouldn't use the ZZRs on the road - really need some heat which comes in quickly on track, but not sure you'd ever get there on the road - the ZZS is better for that.

[E-bmw]

Order66 said:

E-bmw said:

I tend to follow recommendations from professional testers rather than average joe, but both can be helpful.

Which of these magazines/testers are doing track tests on tyres? I'd like to know.

Fine for some communting boots for your winter hack, but you'll find a far richer depth of information from "average joe" on web forums regarding track tyres.

Just go & have a look, for example, here are the ones from the CSC5 test list.



As for getting better info from average joe, there are many levels of average joe out there and I for one would NOT consider myself sensitive enough to compare similar tyres & say which is best, just which I like better.

[loggyboy]

I've used ZZRs and been impressed, but can only compare to R888s, NS2Rs and Zeta Lineas, which are all much cheaper. I only had them as they were offered at a bargain price, but believe at normal prices they weren't value for money when compared to cheaper track tyres.
However at a cold/drying brands they made me look good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBgEGrhsVw4

[Order66]

E-bmw said:

Just go & have a look, for example, here are the ones from the CSC5 test list.

None of those tests seem relevant to track rubber being used on track days - generic summer tyre tests. They don't cover anything to do with heat cycling/lap longevity etc. Where are the ZZR reviews we can look up?

[E-bmw]

You asked.

Order66 said:

Which of these magazines/testers are doing track tests on tyres? I'd like to know.

If you read them all you will find that pretty much all are "track tests on tyres" had you asked which were doing "tests on track tyres" you would have got a different answer.


You asked.

Order66 said:

Where are the ZZR reviews we can look up?

Here.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/ZZR.htm

[Order66]

E-bmw said:

If you read them all you will find that pretty much all are "track tests on tyres" had you asked which were doing "tests on track tyres" you would have got a different answer.

Given this is the Track Days section and the OP is asking about track day tyres it would seem pretty obvious. You answered with a meaningless post about magazine reviews, of which you haven't provided one relevant or appropriate. So you deflect with pedantry.

E-bmw said:

Here.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/ZZR.htm

Let me get this straight, to answer your point about reviews you refer back to the non-magazine reviews that you previously dismissed as unreliable?

Where are the magazine reviews of ZZRs that you claimed had more credence than the reviews PHers? If there arent any, why did you post at all?

[E-bmw]

Order66 said:

E-bmw said:

If you read them all you will find that pretty much all are "track tests on tyres" had you asked which were doing "tests on track tyres" you would have got a different answer.

Given this is the Track Days section and the OP is asking about track day tyres it would seem pretty obvious. You answered with a meaningless post about magazine reviews, of which you haven't provided one relevant or appropriate. So you deflect with pedantry.

E-bmw said:

Here.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/ZZR.htm

Let me get this straight, to answer your point about reviews you refer back to the non-magazine reviews that you previously dismissed as unreliable?

Where are the magazine reviews of ZZRs that you claimed had more credence than the reviews PHers? If there arent any, why did you post at all?

The OP asked a question about tyres, I answered with information on where I first go to when I want to find out anything about any tyres in case he wanted to do the same, at no point did I say "here is the answer to your question". The post wasn't meaningless, I NEVER stated that the answer to his question was there, just that there are lots of answers to lots of questions on tyres there. Sorry, I didn't realise I had to provide reviews on tyres, my mistake.

I did not dismiss non-magazine reviews as unreliable, in fact, I think you will find I said "both can be helpful" and stated that I tend to give more credence to the professional tests.

At no point in any of my previous posts on the subject did I claim there were magazine reviews of the ZZR.

You seem to be attacking me because I haven't SPECIFICALLY answered a question directly, rather given the OP (and others) a source of information which may be of use generally on the subject matter.

Whereas the OP at least does seem to have had a look at the info on the tyres in question & indicated his findings here, so my answer MAY have helped him with that.

I am sorry that I did not answer the OPs question directly, this was because I myself don't have that information to hand, but that does not make the post meaningless.

[itcaptainslow]

I had ZZR's on my S1 Elise. They do rely on having a bit of heat in them but once up to temperature they're brilliant in the dry. Didn't ever use them in the sopping wet but on damp/cold roads they need a bit of respect and being mindful of their design (i.e. not a November morning in the UK!).

A great tyre IMO for a trackday/weekend car but if the car needs to be usable in the wet I would exercise caution.

[loggyboy]

itcaptainslow said:

I had ZZR's on my S1 Elise. They do rely on having a bit of heat in them but once up to temperature they're brilliant in the dry. Didn't ever use them in the sopping wet but on damp/cold roads they need a bit of respect and being mindful of their design (i.e. not a November morning in the UK!).

A great tyre IMO for a trackday/weekend car but if the car needs to be usable in the wet I would exercise caution.

Funny I found the opposite (for track use at least) in that they heated up better than other tyres I had used, and even when stone cold gave better grip than 'regular' summer tyres.

[itcaptainslow]

Wonder if it may have been to do with the car-the Elise obviously being rather light, meaning it didn't work the tyres especially hard?

They were certainly OK when cold-not disasterous.

[SpudLink]

loggyboy said:

itcaptainslow said:

I had ZZR's on my S1 Elise. They do rely on having a bit of heat in them but once up to temperature they're brilliant in the dry. Didn't ever use them in the sopping wet but on damp/cold roads they need a bit of respect and being mindful of their design (i.e. not a November morning in the UK!).

A great tyre IMO for a trackday/weekend car but if the car needs to be usable in the wet I would exercise caution.

Funny I found the opposite (for track use at least) in that they heated up better than other tyres I had used, and even when stone cold gave better grip than 'regular' summer tyres.

I share itcaptainslow's opinion. Also on a light car (700kg), they are brilliant when warm and dry, need caution when cold or damp, and downright terrifying in heavy rain.
I swap to ZZS for spirited Sunday driving, and ZZR to and from track.
On the rare occasion I have got the ZZR tyres up to temp on the road, it felt like being on a sticky race tyre by comparison to anything else I've driven on the road.

[Nickjd]

Shock revaluation! Tyres work differently on different cars, different drivers, different circuits, different weather, different set up and everything else to boot and do exactly the same the next day and it will be different again. Tyres will most definitely also perform differently depending on what has been done on them over their life.
"Proper" threaded track tyres are designed for circuit use and their road legality is a convenience not a warrenty of suitable road behaviour or suitability for the task.In addition, a rough estimate can be made that the more dry grip they generate, so the more people say "these are really fast tyres" the shot try their service life is going to be and it is quite possible to use up a set of tyres in one day. The only real test of if you like a tyre or not is to try them for yourself and judge by your standards and constraints which may every well also include price.

[tertius]

I have a set on my Z4M - heavier (1400 ish) and less powerful (350 ish) than the OPs car but otherwise broadly similar I would say. Front engine RWD etc..

I find them excellent, come to temperature quickly, very stable, good wear.

Only issue I have had is the first set started to split across the tread - believe it was a manufacturing error and Avon replaced them FoC.