Reliable track car. Is there such a thing?
Discussion
Up until last summer I had a Supercharged VX220 in which I did the odd track day. Having sold it to consolidate back to one car I'm already starting to miss the track days after less than 6 months.
One of the reasons I sold it wasn't the time spent on track, it is was the time afterwards on odd weekends fixing small issues on a 14 year old car with limited access. Generally nothing major, odd sensors, a coolant leak, replacing various smaller ancillary parts etc
I appreciate there's always an element of spannering with any track car but if I bought something a bit newer, would I be overly optimistic that it would require less maintenance. Or maybe something with easy access like Westfield?
I'm probably only looking at £5k or so, so that'll limit me the most I guess
One of the reasons I sold it wasn't the time spent on track, it is was the time afterwards on odd weekends fixing small issues on a 14 year old car with limited access. Generally nothing major, odd sensors, a coolant leak, replacing various smaller ancillary parts etc
I appreciate there's always an element of spannering with any track car but if I bought something a bit newer, would I be overly optimistic that it would require less maintenance. Or maybe something with easy access like Westfield?
I'm probably only looking at £5k or so, so that'll limit me the most I guess
choose an inherently reliable car, mx5 comes to mind.
fully service it, eg replace coolant pipes, water pump, radiator and other consumables on what will likely be an old car. Enjoy.
In the case of a 5 it's not that the cooling system is weak it's that it was so good from new you that you can be on original parts at 25yrs of age.
So suddenly being on wot all day puts a strain on old rubber.
I hear Clios are the same, run it properly they're very solid.
If you mean "can i spend 1k on a good, reliable track car", probably not.
PS for 5k i'd probably choose a 5, MR2 or a Clio. 5k to include upgrades and prep for track.
VX220 can be reliable, agian it tends to be cooling system that needs a refresh. clearly more than 5k tho.
fully service it, eg replace coolant pipes, water pump, radiator and other consumables on what will likely be an old car. Enjoy.
In the case of a 5 it's not that the cooling system is weak it's that it was so good from new you that you can be on original parts at 25yrs of age.
So suddenly being on wot all day puts a strain on old rubber.
I hear Clios are the same, run it properly they're very solid.
If you mean "can i spend 1k on a good, reliable track car", probably not.
PS for 5k i'd probably choose a 5, MR2 or a Clio. 5k to include upgrades and prep for track.
VX220 can be reliable, agian it tends to be cooling system that needs a refresh. clearly more than 5k tho.
Edited by CABC on Friday 28th October 09:37
CABC said:
choose an inherently reliable car, mx5 comes to mind.
fully service it, eg replace coolant pipes, water pump, radiator and other consumables on what will likely be an old car. Enjoy.
What this guy said.fully service it, eg replace coolant pipes, water pump, radiator and other consumables on what will likely be an old car. Enjoy.
No need to go mental. Just pick a car that's not known for being fragile, and give it a bit of mechanical TLC.
As already said, the more reliable your base car is the more reliable your track car is likely to be.
But don't expect to get the same mileage between rebuilds that you'd expect with normal road driving. Duty cycle on the engine in normal road driving/cruising is typically fairly low. Using a car on a track will mean you spend more time at wide open throttle. Not quite as bad as the duty cycle of a marine engine in a jetski, but not far off.
But don't expect to get the same mileage between rebuilds that you'd expect with normal road driving. Duty cycle on the engine in normal road driving/cruising is typically fairly low. Using a car on a track will mean you spend more time at wide open throttle. Not quite as bad as the duty cycle of a marine engine in a jetski, but not far off.
The party piece of a Porsche car has long been, drive to the circuit, thrash it around, drive home again. This is particularly true of the air cooled 911s (my 964 never let me down) and the GT3s. Unfortunately none of those fit into the price bracket (albeit 964s were relatively cheap when I bought mine many years ago for a track toy). 944s may be an option for £5K but age is probably against them now in the reliablity stakes. Early boxsters would be affordable too but there is some doubt whether that model of engine can take sustained track abuse - I know both owners that have had no problems and owners that have suffered engine failures.
Totally get where you're coming from. I was in a similar position in that I wanted another track car that was good on track out the box without the need to modify.
Ended up with a megane 250 cup and the only thing I've wanted to change is the alignment adding some negative camber. Otherwise it feels indestructible on track. Used it on the hottest day of the year when over 30 degrees, kept air con on and it still didn't overheat. The standard brakes are fantastic and sooo cheap!!
Never ever thought I'd even consider a fwd as a track car being a bit of a drifter but the way the car turns is excellent, loads of turn in oversteer, loving it so far. It's quick too - 57 sec laps at brands Indy!
I've been doing track days for nearly 20 years and have owned various sports cars but the Renault is best by far out the box.
MX5's also well worth considering but they are older and unless you get one that's supercharged or turbo'd you might get frustrated with not having enough power to get past people on the straights after they've held you up round the corners.
There's a supercharged one for sale on the gtroc register for 4.5 k that looks ok although I have no connection with the seller.
Ended up with a megane 250 cup and the only thing I've wanted to change is the alignment adding some negative camber. Otherwise it feels indestructible on track. Used it on the hottest day of the year when over 30 degrees, kept air con on and it still didn't overheat. The standard brakes are fantastic and sooo cheap!!
Never ever thought I'd even consider a fwd as a track car being a bit of a drifter but the way the car turns is excellent, loads of turn in oversteer, loving it so far. It's quick too - 57 sec laps at brands Indy!
I've been doing track days for nearly 20 years and have owned various sports cars but the Renault is best by far out the box.
MX5's also well worth considering but they are older and unless you get one that's supercharged or turbo'd you might get frustrated with not having enough power to get past people on the straights after they've held you up round the corners.
There's a supercharged one for sale on the gtroc register for 4.5 k that looks ok although I have no connection with the seller.
I'd agree with some of the comments above re MX5s and Clios, sometimes you need to get a few jobs done to get everything right but after that regular issues shouldn't be a problem.
I built a 106GTi with a charger on it in 2003, it's been trackdayed regularly since then and raced for the last two seasons and I've just taken the box out for a refresh for the first time in over a decade, the engine is still untouched.
I wouldn't recommend a Westfield in this context BTW, they are pretty easy to work on but they do break occasionally when driven hard and a £5k example is not likely to be fit for regular track use.
I built a 106GTi with a charger on it in 2003, it's been trackdayed regularly since then and raced for the last two seasons and I've just taken the box out for a refresh for the first time in over a decade, the engine is still untouched.
I wouldn't recommend a Westfield in this context BTW, they are pretty easy to work on but they do break occasionally when driven hard and a £5k example is not likely to be fit for regular track use.
I've been down the modded Vx220 route and spent a fortune, I have a gt3 too but it's just not as much fun,and a lotus 211 that's just a bit good! My son is 17 in a few months so I am gagging to buy a reliable cheap fun car for the track for us both and no matter how hard you try it's a toss between a mx5 and a clio
Lower power, good prep, a driver with sympathy & most cars will be fine. OEM stuff is just so good a soaking up being thrashed senselessly all day.
Of the newer cars Suzuki swift, rent4ring run them, prep & sort the fundamentals & they are epic all sorts of talentless halfkwits have thrapped them for years & they are fine.
For proper wheel drive the most reliable older car I've ever heard of or known is sim16v off here & his e36 318is, think it's up at circa 1500ring laps all I seem to recall it ever having broken is a single wheel bearing, that is epic, ok it needs a re bush now & a darn good look at but it still goes & laps hard.
To put that into context most folks seem to bag circa 150 track miles on a sessioned day perhaps tad over 200 for the harder core on an open pit day, so that's approx equal to 120 to 90 full track days of abuse.
Of the newer cars Suzuki swift, rent4ring run them, prep & sort the fundamentals & they are epic all sorts of talentless halfkwits have thrapped them for years & they are fine.
For proper wheel drive the most reliable older car I've ever heard of or known is sim16v off here & his e36 318is, think it's up at circa 1500ring laps all I seem to recall it ever having broken is a single wheel bearing, that is epic, ok it needs a re bush now & a darn good look at but it still goes & laps hard.
To put that into context most folks seem to bag circa 150 track miles on a sessioned day perhaps tad over 200 for the harder core on an open pit day, so that's approx equal to 120 to 90 full track days of abuse.
This is a general comment, not a personal one. I have never seen you drive.
Choose a nice twisty track.
Get some tuition on carrying speed through the corners.
Amaze everyone with your speed.
Its not about power really, its about how much speed you carry through the corners.
Anyone who has watched the 1100 cc Hillman Imp that does Cadwell occasionally will know what I mean.
80 bhp, and he was up my 315 bhp chuff at every series of corners.
A race driver friend of mine at Donington 3 weeks ago, driving a car with no limited slip diff and half my power, kept up with me by being faster through the corners.
I am not exactly slow, but I will be getting some tuition this coming spring on how to carry speed better through the corners.
So, to answer your question, I suggest you get a cheap reliable car that handles, one of the ones that is listed above, and spend the change from your 5k on tuition.
Choose a nice twisty track.
Get some tuition on carrying speed through the corners.
Amaze everyone with your speed.
Its not about power really, its about how much speed you carry through the corners.
Anyone who has watched the 1100 cc Hillman Imp that does Cadwell occasionally will know what I mean.
80 bhp, and he was up my 315 bhp chuff at every series of corners.
A race driver friend of mine at Donington 3 weeks ago, driving a car with no limited slip diff and half my power, kept up with me by being faster through the corners.
I am not exactly slow, but I will be getting some tuition this coming spring on how to carry speed better through the corners.
So, to answer your question, I suggest you get a cheap reliable car that handles, one of the ones that is listed above, and spend the change from your 5k on tuition.
Clio 182 or 197 probably fits the bill, maybe a Megane R26 if you want a bit more power and a diff.
After the initial tweaks for making it suitable for track, it's pretty much an add fuel/tyres/brakes drive it as hard as you can and go home.
There's a reason there are so many of them at every track day.
After the initial tweaks for making it suitable for track, it's pretty much an add fuel/tyres/brakes drive it as hard as you can and go home.
There's a reason there are so many of them at every track day.
It's a bit of a balancing game act really between something good that's reliable and/or easily fixed.
I've got an Mx5, MGF, Scimitar Ss1 and have also tracked a Porsche 924 and MGB.
Out of those my most reliable track car were the two MGs, closely followed by the Mazda. I've not had the Scim long enough to judge and the Porsche eat a gear linkage at Croft. In fact the B was probably the best. Spent a solid day bashing round Oulton on it without a hint of a problem. It's also the easiest by far to work on. But it was slow.
So I'd probably say go for an Mx5. Or just buy a mega cheap F and ditch it when it needs repairing. Assuming it's not going to be a daily driver too.
I've got an Mx5, MGF, Scimitar Ss1 and have also tracked a Porsche 924 and MGB.
Out of those my most reliable track car were the two MGs, closely followed by the Mazda. I've not had the Scim long enough to judge and the Porsche eat a gear linkage at Croft. In fact the B was probably the best. Spent a solid day bashing round Oulton on it without a hint of a problem. It's also the easiest by far to work on. But it was slow.
So I'd probably say go for an Mx5. Or just buy a mega cheap F and ditch it when it needs repairing. Assuming it's not going to be a daily driver too.
DanGPR said:
Clio 182 or 197 probably fits the bill, maybe a Megane R26 if you want a bit more power and a diff.
After the initial tweaks for making it suitable for track, it's pretty much an add fuel/tyres/brakes drive it as hard as you can and go home.
There's a reason there are so many of them at every track day.
+1. Even when things break its cheap to fix which is important too.After the initial tweaks for making it suitable for track, it's pretty much an add fuel/tyres/brakes drive it as hard as you can and go home.
There's a reason there are so many of them at every track day.
Theres loads of stuff. Personally I would go for a well sorted Clio, even under budget at 3k you would easily buy a great 172 or 182 with all the right bits. Or a 197 and do bits as you go, I am sure there must be plenty for 5k ish now?
Having had a few stripped out and quite raw trackcars I am now all about the usable car you can drive to and from track. I tend to do most trackdays with a couple mates who have the same outlook, trimmed in the front, caged in the back for just the right balence of usability and track fun.
Having had a few stripped out and quite raw trackcars I am now all about the usable car you can drive to and from track. I tend to do most trackdays with a couple mates who have the same outlook, trimmed in the front, caged in the back for just the right balence of usability and track fun.
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