RE: 400bhp V8 for LMP
Thursday 10th March 2005
400bhp V8 for LMP
Turner LMP gets BMW/Chevy power!
Turner Automotive Design - Scotland's only sportscar manufacturer - has announced a significant development. It's going to put V8s in its track car!
To date the Turner LMP has been fitted with a Kawasaki motorbike engine but they're now working on the engineering changes required to offer a BMW V8 model available in Europe and a Chevrolet V8 in North America - each of which will produce a mental 400bhp.
The power-to-weight ratio will be approximately 600 bhp per tonne. Acquiring that power will cost £39,787 (ex. VAT).
The Chevrolet V8 will be shipped to Canada as a North American demonstrator. This car could be available to test as early as June 2005.
Steven Turner commented, "From the outset, as we have always said, the LMP was designed to accept V8 power and we can now demonstrate that with these new cars. The proven BMW and Chevrolet engines will make the LMP one of the most versatile sports cars on track or road today."
Links
Discussion
In development terms though, they are leagues apart. Given that you could also have a Radical SR3 for that sort of money - where's the appeal?
For 10-15k you could buy an MK GT One, for 20-25k you could have a Westfield XTR2 - so why on earth would you go out and spend 40k+ VAT on an LMP (excuse pun)with almost no track record?
It seems that this car has struggled to get a foothold in the market since it's inception. It came at the back end of the bike-engined craze, so it seems that they've gone with monster power instead?
Sorry, but unless it's truly awesome to drive (and huge engines and ultra light cars are not a great combination), then I struggling to see its place in the market in this configuration?
Something like this with a screaming 4-pot, modern powerplant (Toyota VVT-i?) would make sense, but this, does not
For 10-15k you could buy an MK GT One, for 20-25k you could have a Westfield XTR2 - so why on earth would you go out and spend 40k+ VAT on an LMP (excuse pun)with almost no track record?
It seems that this car has struggled to get a foothold in the market since it's inception. It came at the back end of the bike-engined craze, so it seems that they've gone with monster power instead?
Sorry, but unless it's truly awesome to drive (and huge engines and ultra light cars are not a great combination), then I struggling to see its place in the market in this configuration?
Something like this with a screaming 4-pot, modern powerplant (Toyota VVT-i?) would make sense, but this, does not
Stig said:
In development terms though, they are leagues apart. Given that you could also have a Radical SR3 for that sort of money - where's the appeal?
For 10-15k you could buy an MK GT One, for 20-25k you could have a Westfield XTR2 - so why on earth would you go out and spend 40k+ VAT on an LMP (excuse pun)with almost no track record?
It seems that this car has struggled to get a foothold in the market since it's inception. It came at the back end of the bike-engined craze, so it seems that they've gone with monster power instead?
Sorry, but unless it's truly awesome to drive (and huge engines and ultra light cars are not a great combination), then I struggling to see its place in the market in this configuration?
Something like this with a screaming 4-pot, modern powerplant (Toyota VVT-i?) would make sense, but this, does not
I do agree about the screaming 4 pot, but look at the engine rebuild intervals for the bike engines!!!
And they cost a fortune too!
It should be a good bit of competition in my eyes
atom290 said:
In development terms though, they are leagues apart. Given that you could also have a Radical SR3 for that sort of money - where's the appeal?
For 10-15k you could buy an MK GT One, for 20-25k you could have a Westfield XTR2 - so why on earth would you go out and spend 40k+ VAT on an LMP (excuse pun)with almost no track record?
It seems that this car has struggled to get a foothold in the market since it's inception. It came at the back end of the bike-engined craze, so it seems that they've gone with monster power instead?
Sorry, but unless it's truly awesome to drive (and huge engines and ultra light cars are not a great combination), then I struggling to see its place in the market in this configuration?
Something like this with a screaming 4-pot, modern powerplant (Toyota VVT-i?) would make sense, but this, does not
I do agree about the screaming 4 pot, but look at the engine rebuild intervals for the bike engines!!!
And they cost a fortune too!
It should be a good bit of competition in my eyes
Oh don't get me wrong, I may have a soft spot for Ultima
but I welcome any new addition to the market if it raises the game. I'm just struggling to see the 40 grand USP?
Ah, you drove it . . . 
Ultima can have some competition. Because it has none does it? Dunno if this is the one though. Pricetag is a bit too high.
quote from the old PH article:
Friday 11th June 2004
18-11k seems a lot extra for just a souped v8 build in?
A Honda / Beemer / Toyota 1.8-2.0 lump gives the car 250 horses and torque to play with . . . That would do the trick for less blue.
>> Edited by dinkel on Friday 11th March 13:25
Ultima can have some competition. Because it has none does it? Dunno if this is the one though. Pricetag is a bit too high.
quote from the old PH article:
Friday 11th June 2004
coramlmp said:
So does Steve!
Prices for LMP have been reviewed:
£22,995: LMP-S
£25,995: LMP-SE
£28,995: LMP-R
See web-site for details.
Steve
www.turner-auto-design.com
18-11k seems a lot extra for just a souped v8 build in?
A Honda / Beemer / Toyota 1.8-2.0 lump gives the car 250 horses and torque to play with . . . That would do the trick for less blue.
>> Edited by dinkel on Friday 11th March 13:25
I'm not quite sure where this track day car thing is going...? More power, more aerodynamic downforce, higher and higher speed carried in the corners. When things go wrong they are going to start going wrong big time. I worry about the cars exceeding the weekend drives abilities. Power alone can lead to some very hairy moments, chassis and tire grip tends to be progressive, and one can learn the limits in an incremental manner. But getting a car with high down force unsettled mid bend can lead to breakaways that even the best have trouble catching. To drive a car such as the SR8 anywhere near its potential will need a very committed driving style, which is not something I think someone who just does a few track days will be able to do lap after lap.
From my point of view a track day should be about fun, not lap times. My limited experience of cars with high downforce has left me with the impression that downforce reduces lap times but at the cost of reducing the 'fun factor'. Serious speeds need to be driven in a very serious manner.
I'm also for choice, LMP to SR3/8 to Vanwall to any one of the 7 clones, the wider the choice the better. As someone else pointed out in another thread, the Vanwall should be able to provide lots of fun until you drift it sideways into a gravel trap.
From a safety point of view it's not a bad thing that the cars in the upper performance zone do cost the price they do. Anyone who can afford them can hopefully also afford to have them properly prepared and cared for. If the same level of performance was obtainable for only a 'few quid' then the level of care and upkeep of the cars would drop together with safety standards.
I think Stig has a valid point about putting a smaller lump in the LMP. It would give it a better position in the market as a track day car. Hey but, 400 BHP V8 makes good headlines. They have not even put the big lump in the LMP yet, but we are already talking about it….
From my point of view a track day should be about fun, not lap times. My limited experience of cars with high downforce has left me with the impression that downforce reduces lap times but at the cost of reducing the 'fun factor'. Serious speeds need to be driven in a very serious manner.
I'm also for choice, LMP to SR3/8 to Vanwall to any one of the 7 clones, the wider the choice the better. As someone else pointed out in another thread, the Vanwall should be able to provide lots of fun until you drift it sideways into a gravel trap.
From a safety point of view it's not a bad thing that the cars in the upper performance zone do cost the price they do. Anyone who can afford them can hopefully also afford to have them properly prepared and cared for. If the same level of performance was obtainable for only a 'few quid' then the level of care and upkeep of the cars would drop together with safety standards.
I think Stig has a valid point about putting a smaller lump in the LMP. It would give it a better position in the market as a track day car. Hey but, 400 BHP V8 makes good headlines. They have not even put the big lump in the LMP yet, but we are already talking about it….
Sorry guys but most of this is bar room bullshit.
The vast majority of drivers of track day cars do not get within 80% of the car's limits.
A big torquey V8 is much easier to drive than a high reving buzz box motor.
Talk to trainers at race schools and they laugh when you ask about damage to cars and trainees - the major problem is to encourage them to get a move on insteasd of dithering about looking at the rev counter.
Track days are about fun and speed. How fast you are going in an empirical sense is irrelevant. How much you are challenging yourself and your machine is what counts.
The TAD V8 is not for everyone. If you think (from the wisdom of the bar room) that it is not for you - OK. But don't pontificate about what you know nothing about.
The vast majority of drivers of track day cars do not get within 80% of the car's limits.
A big torquey V8 is much easier to drive than a high reving buzz box motor.
Talk to trainers at race schools and they laugh when you ask about damage to cars and trainees - the major problem is to encourage them to get a move on insteasd of dithering about looking at the rev counter.
Track days are about fun and speed. How fast you are going in an empirical sense is irrelevant. How much you are challenging yourself and your machine is what counts.
The TAD V8 is not for everyone. If you think (from the wisdom of the bar room) that it is not for you - OK. But don't pontificate about what you know nothing about.
hayroger said:
Even more so if they put the roof on it...
To me that looks like a "modern" Ultima. As much as I love the Ultima (factory but 2 miles from my home) it is starting to look a little dated with essentialy the same styling since its launch. The more angular roofed LMP looks the business.
Matt
atom290 said:I think you're confusing engine rebuilds for race engines used in racing, vs those used for roads and occasional track days. A Hayabusa for example will last fine for road use and isn't too expensive. The main reason for rebuilding your race engine is making sure it's in perfect nick, not about to go pop, and producing full power. Also, the engine + box usually weighs a lot less than a car engine without gearbox!
I do agree about the screaming 4 pot, but look at the engine rebuild intervals for the bike engines!!!
And they cost a fortune too!
It should be a good bit of competition in my eyes
bounder said:Right... and you're clearly the only person with an opinion worth having. I personally doubt having a huge heavy V8 lump ou! the back is easier to drive. But then what do I know hey? And what makes you think hayroger doesn't know what he's talking about? I agreed with most of what he said.
Sorry guys but most of this is bar room bullshit.
:
A big torquey V8 is much easier to drive than a high reving buzz box motor.
:
The TAD V8 is not for everyone. If you think (from the wisdom of the bar room) that it is not for you - OK. But don't pontificate about what you know nothing about.
" I personally doubt having a huge heavy V8 lump ou! the back is easier to drive. But then what do I know hey? And what makes you think hayroger doesn't know what he's talking about? I agreed with most of what he said. "
(I leave the relationship between yourself and hayroger to yourselves )
It's not a VW Beetle - which was rear engined in my pompous opinion (!).
The V8 (check the weight by the way - not "huge" or "heavy") is mounted mid ships. Like real cars...
(I leave the relationship between yourself and hayroger to yourselves )
It's not a VW Beetle - which was rear engined in my pompous opinion (!).
The V8 (check the weight by the way - not "huge" or "heavy") is mounted mid ships. Like real cars...
"If you haven't, you sound like a starry eyed kid who spoke to a race instructor once in the bar "
At the age of 60 and with ownership of 17 cars and 5 motorbikes behind me - I am no kid - starry eyed or otherwise.
V8 familiarity - yes. From Ford Pilot funny car to Corvette to twin engined Tiger
BEC cars? You are obviously unfamilar with my employer!
Bikes ? From Honda 50cc twin, Honda CX500 to Ninja
Gentlemen (and I use the term loosely) - both have their advantages - both are fun - but for sheer chuckability and control a lightweight car with strong turn in and a V8 to provide the grunt takes a LOT of beating.
Starry eyed kid - over and out.
At the age of 60 and with ownership of 17 cars and 5 motorbikes behind me - I am no kid - starry eyed or otherwise.
V8 familiarity - yes. From Ford Pilot funny car to Corvette to twin engined Tiger
BEC cars? You are obviously unfamilar with my employer!
Bikes ? From Honda 50cc twin, Honda CX500 to Ninja
Gentlemen (and I use the term loosely) - both have their advantages - both are fun - but for sheer chuckability and control a lightweight car with strong turn in and a V8 to provide the grunt takes a LOT of beating.
Starry eyed kid - over and out.
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