Track and occasional road car options - £5k
Discussion
With a car circumstance change on the horizon and the idea of taking the 206 GTi shared sprinting/hillclimbing next year, I might be in a position where I won't need to do many miles in my road car (currently a mix of 330ci Sport and CLK430 cab). This led me to wonder whether I could bin off the idea that I needed a comfortable automatic to drive on the road, and replace it with something a bit more track-ready.
This is more a case of idle musing at the moment, but mustering £5k-or-so shouldn't be a problem. The goal would be to have something that would still work to 'pop to the shops' or drive to the track (zero chance of a trailer), but would also be an absolute hoot when I got there. Kind of a halfway house fast-road/track tool, in a way that my stripped, slammed, 100db Peugeot could never be.
Thoughts so far have centred on:
This is more a case of idle musing at the moment, but mustering £5k-or-so shouldn't be a problem. The goal would be to have something that would still work to 'pop to the shops' or drive to the track (zero chance of a trailer), but would also be an absolute hoot when I got there. Kind of a halfway house fast-road/track tool, in a way that my stripped, slammed, 100db Peugeot could never be.
Thoughts so far have centred on:
- S2000 - No idea that these were in budget until today, but very exciting. Wouldn't leave much for modding, which would mean tracking a largely standard car.
- Supercharged mk2 1.8 MX5 - Love the way they drive, but always hated the lack of grunt. Budget gets a well-modded example with 200bhp+.
- MR2 mk3 2ZZ - Bit of an outsider, as I've not got the hugest knowledge of the conversion. Budget seems on point, and who can argue with 200bhp @ 8krpm?
- MR2 mk2 Turbo - Easily faster in a straight line than the others, but is the chassis a match? Does the budget get me something with decent work done?
- E36 328 - If (BIG IF) it's really possible to get this down to 1200kg, that puts it in the ballpark of the S2000. Tried and tested, but does it compare?
- Impreza - Early ones are light enough when stripped, and 250bhp would make them plenty of fun. Are they reliable enough? Are they as much fun as the others?
- S2000 - Not driven one of these, so can't comment.
- Supercharged mk2 1.8 MX5 - I would avoid the mk2 as they rust more than the mk1. With a £5k budget for track/road I'd be looking at a 2.0l mk3. There's a race series for them, so lots of mods available.
- MR2 mk3 2ZZ - The standard MR2 Roadster is great on track, I'll admit it is slightly underpowered though. I have mine for trackdays and the occasional hoon/commute and it fits that usage perfectly. As standard it feels more raw than an MX-5.
- MR2 mk2 Turbo - Again, no experience of these.
- E36 328 - I prefer lighter cars for track work.
- Impreza - Would probably be a good shout, again there is lots of them about, so plenty of mods etc.
Craikeybaby said:
As for cars you have missed out, what about a 350Z? Or would a VX220 sneak into budget?
Wait for the winter and a shabby VX might be around that budget. Owners don't want to drive them and just see a pile of money doing nothing; if they are shabby they see a money pit.Thanks all.
I think the VX220 would be a bit too cost-marginal to be viable, to be honest. There are a few S2000s on AT at the moment in budget, and I'd expect this to increase as the year progresses.
I was under the impression that the mk2.5 MX5 was the worst culprit, rather than the mk2 (which it appeared was on par with the mk1).
Hadn't considered a mk3 at all, as I'd ideally want something a little nippier in a straight line (closer to 200bhp/ton).
The 350Z is definitely off the cards. Far too heavy (as a 2-seater) to be useful on track, for me.
I think the VX220 would be a bit too cost-marginal to be viable, to be honest. There are a few S2000s on AT at the moment in budget, and I'd expect this to increase as the year progresses.
I was under the impression that the mk2.5 MX5 was the worst culprit, rather than the mk2 (which it appeared was on par with the mk1).
Hadn't considered a mk3 at all, as I'd ideally want something a little nippier in a straight line (closer to 200bhp/ton).
The 350Z is definitely off the cards. Far too heavy (as a 2-seater) to be useful on track, for me.
I just went through the same idea... Started at 5k, looking for a great track ready car that's ok on road... Ended up going over budget but got the new shape Megane. Never thought I'd like a fwd but really enjoying it!
If you can bear having FWD a megane R26 seems a good bet. In budget for a good one, good brakes, reliable etc..
If you're set on rwd what about an R33 Skyline GTS-T ? RWD, not too heavy, incredibly strong engine and running gear.. Very cheap and easy to get track ready.
If you can bear having FWD a megane R26 seems a good bet. In budget for a good one, good brakes, reliable etc..
If you're set on rwd what about an R33 Skyline GTS-T ? RWD, not too heavy, incredibly strong engine and running gear.. Very cheap and easy to get track ready.
git-r said:
I just went through the same idea... Started at 5k, looking for a great track ready car that's ok on road... Ended up going over budget but got the new shape Megane. Never thought I'd like a fwd but really enjoying it!
If you can bear having FWD a megane R26 seems a good bet. In budget for a good one, good brakes, reliable etc..
If you're set on rwd what about an R33 Skyline GTS-T ? RWD, not too heavy, incredibly strong engine and running gear.. Very cheap and easy to get track ready.
Love the idea of a Skyline, but feel like £5k isn't going to get me much bang for my buck. However, they are MUCH lighter than I thought (Carfolio suggests 1.35T, which is lighter than an E36).If you can bear having FWD a megane R26 seems a good bet. In budget for a good one, good brakes, reliable etc..
If you're set on rwd what about an R33 Skyline GTS-T ? RWD, not too heavy, incredibly strong engine and running gear.. Very cheap and easy to get track ready.
FWD has its place for sure, but my 206 GTi is FWD and I couldn't bear having two front-hack track toys.
Edited by C70R on Thursday 18th August 16:32
C70R I ran an early S2000 exactly as you outlined. Mainly as our second car, but also a toy.
All I changed was brake discs, pads , lines and fluids, plus track rubber. Other than normal service stuff.
Abosultey great car when fully on it. Needs committed driving, and getting used to keeping the revs between 6-9k (they are gutless below that). Gearbox is arguably the best ever.
Took me some time to re-learn some driving finesse after years of high powered 4wd cars, but very rewarding.
Did several Trackdays in it and it never missed a beat.
Mine cost around £4K, with approx 80k miles, and another £1k to get it ready.
For normal day to day driving, the engine is a bit gutless low down, and 3.2 Boxster would make a nicer car.
All I changed was brake discs, pads , lines and fluids, plus track rubber. Other than normal service stuff.
Abosultey great car when fully on it. Needs committed driving, and getting used to keeping the revs between 6-9k (they are gutless below that). Gearbox is arguably the best ever.
Took me some time to re-learn some driving finesse after years of high powered 4wd cars, but very rewarding.
Did several Trackdays in it and it never missed a beat.
Mine cost around £4K, with approx 80k miles, and another £1k to get it ready.
For normal day to day driving, the engine is a bit gutless low down, and 3.2 Boxster would make a nicer car.
C70R said:
- E36 328 - If (BIG IF) it's really possible to get this down to 1200kg, that puts it in the ballpark of the S2000. Tried and tested, but
Mx5 is far more tactile.
S2000 always disappointed me.
C70R said:
- MR2 mk2 Turbo - Easily faster in a straight line than the others, but is the chassis a match? Does the budget get me something with decent work done?
iguana said:
C70R said:
- E36 328 - If (BIG IF) it's really possible to get this down to 1200kg, that puts it in the ballpark of the S2000. Tried and tested, but
Mx5 is far more tactile.
S2000 always disappointed me.
If it's that easy to achieve within the £5k budget, without things like perspex windows and composite body panels, that might be a winner.
Camoradi said:
C70R said:
- MR2 mk2 Turbo - Easily faster in a straight line than the others, but is the chassis a match? Does the budget get me something with decent work done?
I could definitely see the enjoyment in wringing the neck of something rev-happy on track, but I wonder whether something with a slightly less peaky delivery might flatter my novice skills.
The mk2 MR2 came in for a lot of casual criticism of its chassis, with talk of unprompted snapping and hedge-finding. This seemed to coincide with the car falling into 'council' budget and courting a somewhat undesirable image, which have definitely combined to suppress values.
I don't want to feel like I'm going too far down this road, but it would seem reasonable to get it down to 1100kg without making it unusable, and up to 280bhp without making it unreliable. All of which, combined with a few choice chassis mods (rubber, brakes, coilovers) surely makes a decent proposition.
Is there a reason they aren't more common among the trackday crowd? Do they suffer from oil starvation with the standard sump/pickup arrangement? Are the too fragile to deal with repeated thrashing? Do they struggle with temperature management?
the track day crowd tell the truth....
that's why you regularly see mx5s, clios, Loti, Caterham in good numbers. BMW aren't rare by any means but they cost more to run and set up. they'll be front heavy in 6cyl form (i remember a thread many moons ago...but it's still true), but suspension mods can mitigate that. To get one that's a good track car, not just attending the day, would take some cash and effort. nothing wrong with that. i think iguana's cars come specially lightened from german armco...
I bought an old mx5 that had already been track prepped. i did more to it, and so the cost of what looks like a £500 pos is now over 4k.
i'm not unhappy or surprised, but the costs of a similar spec BMW would be a lot more i think (albeit more powerful). Any old car being converted to track will consume some cash to get it right, especially when you've driven it on several days and feel where you want more. In some respects i'd like to upgrade now, but in truth i know that whatever package i stumped up say 5k for would still need work to get it to my liking. My car is light, alive, predictable but low on power. so driver skills need to be honed! A heavier car would need so much chassis tuning to replace what i have. Caterhams are great for very good reasons.
when spending 5k, first rule is buy an already prepped car. It's very rare that you won't need to spend more but you'll get a lot that's been heavily depreciated.
that's why you regularly see mx5s, clios, Loti, Caterham in good numbers. BMW aren't rare by any means but they cost more to run and set up. they'll be front heavy in 6cyl form (i remember a thread many moons ago...but it's still true), but suspension mods can mitigate that. To get one that's a good track car, not just attending the day, would take some cash and effort. nothing wrong with that. i think iguana's cars come specially lightened from german armco...
I bought an old mx5 that had already been track prepped. i did more to it, and so the cost of what looks like a £500 pos is now over 4k.
i'm not unhappy or surprised, but the costs of a similar spec BMW would be a lot more i think (albeit more powerful). Any old car being converted to track will consume some cash to get it right, especially when you've driven it on several days and feel where you want more. In some respects i'd like to upgrade now, but in truth i know that whatever package i stumped up say 5k for would still need work to get it to my liking. My car is light, alive, predictable but low on power. so driver skills need to be honed! A heavier car would need so much chassis tuning to replace what i have. Caterhams are great for very good reasons.
when spending 5k, first rule is buy an already prepped car. It's very rare that you won't need to spend more but you'll get a lot that's been heavily depreciated.
Surely with this budget and brief you have to consider a Porsche Boxster.
They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
Sohlman said:
Surely with this budget and brief you have to consider a Porsche Boxster.
They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
Boxster did absolutely appear on my radar, but I discounted it for a number of reasons:They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
- Significantly bigger bork factor than most of the other cars
- Not as good on track as standard as the others (for the £5k budget)
- Much more of a road car than the others (I don't need a daily - I only really do the occasional weekend drive)
C70R said:
Sohlman said:
Surely with this budget and brief you have to consider a Porsche Boxster.
They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
Boxster did absolutely appear on my radar, but I discounted it for a number of reasons:They can be picked up cheaply although you want one that has been well looked after.
They can handle track work out of the box very well as have good brakes. Sublime handling. Very direct and feel some steering and are surprisingly practical.
I ran one for two years and without doubt the best car I have ever had.
The reviews for them by everybody is 5 star for a reason.
Online will also give you horror stories about IMS bearing failures and bore score. While the problems do exists they have probable already suffered this by now if they where going to and forums make them out worse then they are.
Ok so maintenance on one of these is going to be higher., but with a Boxster S you had 260bhp and around 1250-300kg's. While not feather weight they pack a descent sized punch.
If you want to slide around they are not the right car, but for precision driving and learning how to alter a car's line by microscopic adjustments to the balance using your right foot they take some beating.
- Significantly bigger bork factor than most of the other cars
- Not as good on track as standard as the others (for the £5k budget)
- Much more of a road car than the others (I don't need a daily - I only really do the occasional weekend drive)
the 5 (after some fettling, which is still cheap on this little thing) will be more alert and lively than a Boxster and still run round all day.
getting TO the track would be so much better in Pork though.
If we're talking about the MR2 Turbo, how do they compare to the later shape Nissan 200SX? Seems like a similar proposition - both 2L 16v turbo, both capable of ~300bhp, both can be lightened to 1100kg without too much fuss.
The upside to the 200sx would be that I could get a much newer (4-5yrs) car than the MR2, and it wouldn't be an import (thinking about London insurance). Obviously I'd lose out on the mid-engined layout of the MR2, but would it really matter?
Thoughts?
The upside to the 200sx would be that I could get a much newer (4-5yrs) car than the MR2, and it wouldn't be an import (thinking about London insurance). Obviously I'd lose out on the mid-engined layout of the MR2, but would it really matter?
Thoughts?
An Impreza or Evo is going to cost a lot more money to fix if it goes wrong, than something like an MX5 or 182 Clio.
Are you intending to take 'rear passengers' to the shops in their dual purpose car, because if you don't need 4 doors and a rear seat, then why bother with the extra weight. Get a 2 seater to start with.
Are you intending to take 'rear passengers' to the shops in their dual purpose car, because if you don't need 4 doors and a rear seat, then why bother with the extra weight. Get a 2 seater to start with.
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