Discussion
If money was tight, and you needed a helmet for a caged car to use on the road and track... what would you go for?
OMP do a fifty quid open-face that looks like it would suit me well on the road, but I'm guessing no track event would allow open face? Full face seems a bit much for on the road.
Is there a helmet that would suit road / track / karting... ?
OMP do a fifty quid open-face that looks like it would suit me well on the road, but I'm guessing no track event would allow open face? Full face seems a bit much for on the road.
Is there a helmet that would suit road / track / karting... ?
Just note that the rules on helmets is very likely to change soon for trackdays - I went to a trackday last week at Bedford with Javelin and was told that certain types of helmets would not be permmitted soon. I recall certain types of bike helmets will not be allowed - may pay to check before you buy.
I remember doing my motorcycle training and the instructor asking us what we thought the difference between a cheap commercially available helmet and a top price job might be... obviously everyone said you "could nut a Triceratops to death with the expensive model" (well, words to that effect) and the guy was all... 'Nope!'
Reckoned both lids were tested to the same standards and loads. The difference was all in comfort, weight and style, apparently.
I don't know if this applies to MSA / FIA approved helmets, though.
Reckoned both lids were tested to the same standards and loads. The difference was all in comfort, weight and style, apparently.
I don't know if this applies to MSA / FIA approved helmets, though.
Boring_Chris said:
I remember doing my motorcycle training and the instructor asking us what we thought the difference between a cheap commercially available helmet and a top price job might be... obviously everyone said you "could nut a Triceratops to death with the expensive model" (well, words to that effect) and the guy was all... 'Nope!'
Reckoned both lids were tested to the same standards and loads. The difference was all in comfort, weight and style, apparently.
I don't know if this applies to MSA / FIA approved helmets, though.
The better ones may also be in one piece after the second and third impacts.Reckoned both lids were tested to the same standards and loads. The difference was all in comfort, weight and style, apparently.
I don't know if this applies to MSA / FIA approved helmets, though.
Find one that fits then see if you can afford it, check to see if you can get your sunglasses on and off too.
Steve H said:
May I be the first to ask how much you think your head is worth?
Congratulations 
Nothing ever happens on trackdays. If you're in an uncaged unmodified modern tintop I'm not sure that wearing a helmet is safer than no helmet at all. However, they're mandatory so you have no choice.
If you've a cage, then that's what you're protecting yourself from. But you'd be mad to have any cage bars within striking distance of your head without impact absorbing padding. The helmet is obviously obligatory but personally I don't think it's worth forking out huge amounts of money- get one that fits comfortably.
If you're going to pull the 'what's your head worth' line, then how about three grands worth of super lightweight Snell SA2015 carbon fibre helmet with flameproof lining and balaclava, 4mm visor, HANS device, harnesses etc etc.
Edited by HustleRussell on Tuesday 2nd August 22:51
Just to complicate my situation (well, by complicate I really mean drive the cost of the actual solution up) in addition to the caged tin-top I have I also have a VX220 that I might like to track on occasion.
So i'm probably looking at the cheap OMP open-face (for the road) + a good FIA full face track / karting one.
Bloody cars!
So i'm probably looking at the cheap OMP open-face (for the road) + a good FIA full face track / karting one.
Bloody cars!
Racing helmets are different from karting helmets which are different from 'trackday' helmets which are different from motorcycle helmets etc etc. The approvals don't overlap much. But unless you're testing or competing, approvals don't matter- and FIA Snell approved helmets are certainly sold at a significant premium.
HustleRussell said:
Congratulations
Thanks 
HustleRussell said:
Nothing ever happens on trackdays.
Really? 
HustleRussell said:
If you're in an uncaged unmodified modern tintop I'm not sure that wearing a helmet is safer than no helmet at all. However, they're mandatory so you have no choice.
If you've a cage, then that's what you're protecting yourself from. But you'd be mad to have any cage bars within striking distance of your head without impact absorbing padding.
But it would be fine and not mad in any way to do a trackday and not bother with a lid in a standard car if they weren't mandatory? If you've a cage, then that's what you're protecting yourself from. But you'd be mad to have any cage bars within striking distance of your head without impact absorbing padding.
HustleRussell said:
If you're going to pull the 'what's your head worth' line, then how about three grands worth of super lightweight Snell SA2015 carbon fibre helmet with flameproof lining and balaclava, 4mm visor, HANS device, harnesses etc etc.
Fair point, going to one extreme end of the range may be considered to be too much but no lid or a Lidl special offer is the other end of that range and far more barking IMO.I'm actually in favour with the no-scrutineering aspect of trackdays and happy for Darwin to sort out the result but when it comes to my own safety I'll stick with my Arais and as the OP was asking for advice I'd suggest that anyone doing a trackday should consider helmets to be slightly more than a compulsory hoop to jump through at the lowest cost.
HustleRussell said:
Racing helmets are different from karting helmets which are different from 'trackday' helmets which are different from motorcycle helmets etc etc. The approvals don't overlap much. But unless you're testing or competing, approvals don't matter- and FIA Snell approved helmets are certainly sold at a significant premium.
From my most recent readings, the differences between FIA and motorcycle approvals seemed to be mostly in the lack of fire resistance in the motorcycle ones. TBH it made me feel a bit of a mug having spent 200 quid on a low end FIA helmet rather than a much cheaper bike one; I doubt it will protect me any better, though the expense does buy you much less bulk.
Cheaper helmets are usually heavier, this seems not to make much difference on a bike but in a car the extra weight does tell on the neck muscles after a long day.
I would try on as many types as I could before purchasing, a heavy helmet that does not fit perfectly will become an irritation and as a proportion of expenditure a decent crash hat is not expensive, lasts for years also, unlike a set of tyres.
Look out for a removable washable lining as well, makes cleaning simpler.
I would try on as many types as I could before purchasing, a heavy helmet that does not fit perfectly will become an irritation and as a proportion of expenditure a decent crash hat is not expensive, lasts for years also, unlike a set of tyres.
Look out for a removable washable lining as well, makes cleaning simpler.
Steve H said:
HustleRussell said:
If you're in an uncaged unmodified modern tintop I'm not sure that wearing a helmet is safer than no helmet at all. However, they're mandatory so you have no choice.
If you've a cage, then that's what you're protecting yourself from. But you'd be mad to have any cage bars within striking distance of your head without impact absorbing padding.
But it would be fine and not mad in any way to do a trackday and not bother with a lid in a standard car if they weren't mandatory? If you've a cage, then that's what you're protecting yourself from. But you'd be mad to have any cage bars within striking distance of your head without impact absorbing padding.
Steve H said:
HustleRussell said:
Nothing ever happens on trackdays.
Really? HustleRussell said:
If you're going to pull the 'what's your head worth' line, then how about three grands worth of super lightweight Snell SA2015 carbon fibre helmet with flameproof lining and balaclava, 4mm visor, HANS device, harnesses etc etc.
Fair point, going to one extreme end of the range may be considered to be too much but no lid or a Lidl special offer is the other end of that range and far more barking IMO.I'm actually in favour with the no-scrutineering aspect of trackdays and happy for Darwin to sort out the result but when it comes to my own safety I'll stick with my Arais and as the OP was asking for advice I'd suggest that anyone doing a trackday should consider helmets to be slightly more than a compulsory hoop to jump through at the lowest cost.
My position is that I believe trackdays should be accessible and even the cheapest helmets meeting B.S. standards for road / motorcycle use afford an acceptable level of protection in a modern production car provided it fits correctly and you can see out. Ultimately it’s a composite shell filled with expanded polystyrene- excluding for arguments sake the nastiest ones available and the very best available, the primary differentiators are fit and finish, appearance, gimmickery and the level to which the helmet has been tested and approved. The other differentiators are basically irrelevant for a production car on a trackday i.e. flame retardant lining, fancy high impact visors etc.
CrutyRammers said:
HustleRussell said:
Racing helmets are different from karting helmets which are different from 'trackday' helmets which are different from motorcycle helmets etc etc. The approvals don't overlap much. But unless you're testing or competing, approvals don't matter- and FIA Snell approved helmets are certainly sold at a significant premium.
From my most recent readings, the differences between FIA and motorcycle approvals seemed to be mostly in the lack of fire resistance in the motorcycle ones. TBH it made me feel a bit of a mug having spent 200 quid on a low end FIA helmet rather than a much cheaper bike one; I doubt it will protect me any better, though the expense does buy you much less bulk.
Don't know if I have missed it, so:
All MSV tracks (Brands, Oulton, Cadwell, Bedford and Snetterton) require you to wear full face in a convertible, even with the roof on, and that applies to passengers too.
So you have a tin top, get an open face helmet, and someone offers you a passenger ride in a Caterham/Redical/Atom/TVR/Ferrari Spyder.........
My solution was relatively simple - I just bought one of each. Snell approved because I need my head to do sums to earn me a living. I wear the open face one at friendly tracks like Mallory, Castle Combe etc, and the full face at MSV tracks, as my car is a convertible. Mine were both under £200 a piece.
All MSV tracks (Brands, Oulton, Cadwell, Bedford and Snetterton) require you to wear full face in a convertible, even with the roof on, and that applies to passengers too.
So you have a tin top, get an open face helmet, and someone offers you a passenger ride in a Caterham/Redical/Atom/TVR/Ferrari Spyder.........
My solution was relatively simple - I just bought one of each. Snell approved because I need my head to do sums to earn me a living. I wear the open face one at friendly tracks like Mallory, Castle Combe etc, and the full face at MSV tracks, as my car is a convertible. Mine were both under £200 a piece.
HustleRussell said:
Various reasonable stuff.
i take what you are saying on all that Russell, I just don't see the point in risking it. I don't generally wear a suit/hans on trackdays but I do wear an Arai lid to MSA standards (less the posts), or the bike equivalent if I'm in my Westfield, same when I'm instructing. Each to their own 
.There's are very few serious injuries on trackdays, whether that's because of helmets or in spite of them may be debatable but the risk is not comparable with driving on the road, or if it is the driver in question needs to go slower on the road or quicker on the track
.If you look around a morning briefing there's a 90% certainty that one or more of the 60-80 drivers in front of you is going to lose control of their car, leave the tarmac and risk hitting something solid, these guys (and many others) may drive quickly on the road but they do not have a 1%+ chance per day of crashing, if they did they would average three crashes a year. What I'm saying is there's a much higher probability per-hour of having an impact on a trackday than under almost any other circumstances, if we're putting ourselves in that situation then we should consider how to best reduce the risks.
For people not used to wearing a helmet and without the associated developed racing neck muscles it is better to have a very lightweight helmet which tend to be of the more expensive variety. Carbon/Kevlar etc.
The possibility of a whiplash type injury is far greater than an impact injury in a trackday tintop.
You don't wont to be adding to the weight of your head which will then exaggerate the effects of inertia and kinetics leading to greater risk of neck and bassilar skull injury.
The possibility of a whiplash type injury is far greater than an impact injury in a trackday tintop.
You don't wont to be adding to the weight of your head which will then exaggerate the effects of inertia and kinetics leading to greater risk of neck and bassilar skull injury.
Edited by Bright Halo on Thursday 4th August 13:42
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