Spa in July with BaT?
Discussion
Depends what you are in and what pace you drive at. Seem to be full of caterhams with drivers under training (many their own).
Yesterday at Silverstone spent a whole day following caterhams through every corner of the circuit....usually driven at a moderate pace, and for some reason unwilling to let you past in good time before a windy complex/section
(I got the impression many of the caterham drivers assume they will be quicker through the corners than a bigger road car and therefore they were reluctant to let you past until after the section but in reality you end up following them at half pace through the complexes...)
I think I had 2 semis clear laps....and the day looked like it was half full!
I think for newer/early learner drivers it was well organised and marshalled. If you are an experienced track driver or in a faster car (and looking for more flowing pace) then I would recommend some of the other TDOs like Goldtrack.
(I hope I do not get caterham hate mail now!)
Yesterday at Silverstone spent a whole day following caterhams through every corner of the circuit....usually driven at a moderate pace, and for some reason unwilling to let you past in good time before a windy complex/section
(I got the impression many of the caterham drivers assume they will be quicker through the corners than a bigger road car and therefore they were reluctant to let you past until after the section but in reality you end up following them at half pace through the complexes...)
I think I had 2 semis clear laps....and the day looked like it was half full!
I think for newer/early learner drivers it was well organised and marshalled. If you are an experienced track driver or in a faster car (and looking for more flowing pace) then I would recommend some of the other TDOs like Goldtrack.
(I hope I do not get caterham hate mail now!)
Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 18th May 14:34
A little unfair in your assessment T! I didn't feel it was over-stuffed with Caterhams except when you occasionally came upon a gaggle of them.
Yes there were more Caterhams than usual due to a corporate event having 4 on track almost continually, but I'm sure the race cars on Goldtrack / RMA events are saying the same thing about road cars. It's a trackday; sounds like you need to go racing...
IME, at Spa with BaT (and I've lost count how many times I've been there with them), the rental Caterhams are fewer in number plus the size & nature of Spa means you rarely get held up for long if you are in a sub 3 minute lap car.
I'm there in July & then on to Zolder where I will be in a BaT Caterham.
Yes there were more Caterhams than usual due to a corporate event having 4 on track almost continually, but I'm sure the race cars on Goldtrack / RMA events are saying the same thing about road cars. It's a trackday; sounds like you need to go racing...
IME, at Spa with BaT (and I've lost count how many times I've been there with them), the rental Caterhams are fewer in number plus the size & nature of Spa means you rarely get held up for long if you are in a sub 3 minute lap car.
I'm there in July & then on to Zolder where I will be in a BaT Caterham.
Yeah - ok, maybe this week was a one off. Maybe one too many corporate customers.
I totally get its a track day and everyone has and needs to have a fair chance. There was no frustrated driving or bad overtaking imv.
I do not expect clear laps throughout the day or subservient driving by slower cars....there were plenty of faster race cars too
...its just that after an 8 hour day, on a lightly attended event, it was surprising to have only 1-2 laps without a slow car in the corners frequently undergoing instruction. I guess it was bad luck.
...anyway getting off topic.
I totally get its a track day and everyone has and needs to have a fair chance. There was no frustrated driving or bad overtaking imv.
I do not expect clear laps throughout the day or subservient driving by slower cars....there were plenty of faster race cars too
...its just that after an 8 hour day, on a lightly attended event, it was surprising to have only 1-2 laps without a slow car in the corners frequently undergoing instruction. I guess it was bad luck.
...anyway getting off topic.
Have to agree with La Source to an extent. The large number of caterhams is one of the reasons why we decided to not use BaT for our annual trip this year.
We've increasingly found that the cats go round in packs of five or six having their own mini race. The problem with this is when you let one pass, they all think they can pass. Being someone who always lets the faster car/driver past as soon as possible, I've had times when I've virtually ground to a stop on track because the straight is too short to let six pass in one go. Try and move back on line after letting two or three go through and you get treated to a load of fist waving! On one occasion a friend was almost rear ended by a straggler trying to catch up with the cat train when the friend pulled back on line to make the next corner.
In my experience the caterham drivers get very impatient when they're present in large numbers and just have contempt for those of us in medium power road cars. They would rather us not be there. Hence, we won't be.
We've increasingly found that the cats go round in packs of five or six having their own mini race. The problem with this is when you let one pass, they all think they can pass. Being someone who always lets the faster car/driver past as soon as possible, I've had times when I've virtually ground to a stop on track because the straight is too short to let six pass in one go. Try and move back on line after letting two or three go through and you get treated to a load of fist waving! On one occasion a friend was almost rear ended by a straggler trying to catch up with the cat train when the friend pulled back on line to make the next corner.
In my experience the caterham drivers get very impatient when they're present in large numbers and just have contempt for those of us in medium power road cars. They would rather us not be there. Hence, we won't be.
^^ Not a unique or uncommon observation on track days.
I pride myself on knowing that I will indicate/pull over to let a faster car/cars past, but my power level seems to place me firmly in the Caterfield speed ballpark and it would be nice to be on the receiving end of the same good will sometimes.
Instead, I often find myself deliberately slowing and dropping back to a clear bit of track.
Maybe there are just statistically more bad apples in that particular owners barrel?
I pride myself on knowing that I will indicate/pull over to let a faster car/cars past, but my power level seems to place me firmly in the Caterfield speed ballpark and it would be nice to be on the receiving end of the same good will sometimes.
Instead, I often find myself deliberately slowing and dropping back to a clear bit of track.
Maybe there are just statistically more bad apples in that particular owners barrel?
Edited by Hol on Thursday 19th May 13:04
Caterhams must be the single most widely raced marque in British motorsport- there are several clubs each attracting scores of cars. There will be a Caterham series racing at a UK circuit pretty much every weekend in season. That’ll be a lot of racing pals in identical cars ‘testing’- and in lieu of a ‘test day’, a track day is the next best thing.
Anyone who has driven a Caterham on track, or shared a track with one, will attest to their performance over a lap. However the constant bane of a Caterham track driver’s life is some hulking great tin top dragging itself in front on the straight and then proceeding to brake sixty feet early.
With so many Caterhams on tracks, probability dictates that you’ve a greater chance of having a problem with a Caterham driver.
It’s a combination of factors which makes Caterhams and tintops somewhat incompatible on track. But what’s the alternative- put them out there with the open wheel cars where the shoe will be on the other foot, only with the added safety risk?
Anyone who has driven a Caterham on track, or shared a track with one, will attest to their performance over a lap. However the constant bane of a Caterham track driver’s life is some hulking great tin top dragging itself in front on the straight and then proceeding to brake sixty feet early.
With so many Caterhams on tracks, probability dictates that you’ve a greater chance of having a problem with a Caterham driver.
It’s a combination of factors which makes Caterhams and tintops somewhat incompatible on track. But what’s the alternative- put them out there with the open wheel cars where the shoe will be on the other foot, only with the added safety risk?
The issue I had wasn't fast caterhams - I wish there were a few more of those on the day - but quite slow ones hogging the racing line quite early into corners/complexes and all the way through them (ofcourse you are not going to overtake in the corners). Plus the bunching of them sometimes.
I appreciate there are all types of caterhams and Caterham drivers - some bloody quick. On this day I only met one at a similar pace as me (not meaning to boast but just illustrate the point). In fact had a nice stint with it behind me - yes the gap would reduce in the complex a little but over the whole lap I was probably slightly quicker. Silverstone is a power circuit so as long as you are fairly quick thorough the corners power should influence overall pace.
I did guess that majority of the Caterham drivers are probably usually frustrated by high power slow corner tin tops and give them all the same treatment. That's ok in isolation - however part from say 4-5 Porsches, a type R, a 355, and a handful of race cars, everything else was a Caterham. So it a nature of the clientele of the organiser I guess.
There are other organisers where the pitlane is full of GT3s and RSs if their driving pace/behaviour is attractive.
I guess my original point was try them all and find one where the clientele suits your pace. The guys running at the Caterham pace probably had a ball on the day. Low numbers, dry track, no dangerous drivers, what's not to like?
I appreciate there are all types of caterhams and Caterham drivers - some bloody quick. On this day I only met one at a similar pace as me (not meaning to boast but just illustrate the point). In fact had a nice stint with it behind me - yes the gap would reduce in the complex a little but over the whole lap I was probably slightly quicker. Silverstone is a power circuit so as long as you are fairly quick thorough the corners power should influence overall pace.
I did guess that majority of the Caterham drivers are probably usually frustrated by high power slow corner tin tops and give them all the same treatment. That's ok in isolation - however part from say 4-5 Porsches, a type R, a 355, and a handful of race cars, everything else was a Caterham. So it a nature of the clientele of the organiser I guess.
There are other organisers where the pitlane is full of GT3s and RSs if their driving pace/behaviour is attractive.
I guess my original point was try them all and find one where the clientele suits your pace. The guys running at the Caterham pace probably had a ball on the day. Low numbers, dry track, no dangerous drivers, what's not to like?
Edited by LaSource on Thursday 19th May 13:34
Edited by LaSource on Thursday 19th May 13:36
I was a bit concerned when I saw that BaT were offering Caterham Circuit Experiences running on some of their trackdays. Having done experience days and track days I don't think it is the type of car that is the problem, but the difference in priorities/experience between an experience/corporate driver and a track day driver in their own car.
I recently did a day at Donington with Circuit Days and one of my favouite parts of the day was lapping with someone in a BaT Caterham, swapping positions every couple of laps.
I recently did a day at Donington with Circuit Days and one of my favouite parts of the day was lapping with someone in a BaT Caterham, swapping positions every couple of laps.
Well, I've already booked, so I guess I'll just have to see for myself. Was originally planning on the Gold Track 2-day event in August, but the second day had already filled up.
I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
snortdavis said:
Well, I've already booked, so I guess I'll just have to see for myself. Was originally planning on the Gold Track 2-day event in August, but the second day had already filled up.
I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
You should be fine.I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
If you get stuck with the wheels, depending on where you are BaT can probably transport them for you as I believe they tend to transport many cars to tracks...
snortdavis said:
Well, I've already booked, so I guess I'll just have to see for myself. Was originally planning on the Gold Track 2-day event in August, but the second day had already filled up.
I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
I'm booked up as well, taking my GT4 although not sure it'll be fully run in by the time I get there - at least I'll have an excuse for not being as fast as others !!I've got an E46 M3 with upgraded suspension and brakes, so shouldn't be the slowest on the track. Really just testing the waters to see if anyone else is going that might be interested in going down in convoy (bonus if you're trailering so I can try and convince you to carry my track wheels and tires to save the highway miles 8-) ).
Haven't really finalised the plans for getting there, but looks like I'll be heading over via Eurotunnel after the British GP.
Wild boar!! Oh yes
An excellent day. Weather was fine in the morning with the afternoon having two heavy showers which dried quickly in the sun.
Driving standards was great other than a couple of incidents. The lambo race cars being the epicentre, including one doing an overtake up the inside between just after la source on me. Showed Bookatrack the video and glad to see they continue to apply strong standards.
Simon
An excellent day. Weather was fine in the morning with the afternoon having two heavy showers which dried quickly in the sun.
Driving standards was great other than a couple of incidents. The lambo race cars being the epicentre, including one doing an overtake up the inside between just after la source on me. Showed Bookatrack the video and glad to see they continue to apply strong standards.
Simon
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