Track day seat replacement
Discussion
Hi there,
So I've been slowly building up my E92 M3 for trackdays, Cup2s, big brakes, Intrax coilovers and I'm at the point now where I'm really struggling to stay in my seat. My back and neck were hurting for a day after my last day at brands.
So this moves me on to trying to find a replacement for the drivers seat in my car.
What's important to me is that whatever I buy is still comfortable on long journeys - I have a 1k mile round trip in April that includes a trackday at Spa.
What I would really like is to retain access to the rear, but it's not a deal breaker - I can leave the passenger seat standard.
Also, what's the deal with using harnesses without a cage? Are they any I can use? I've seen harness bars, but they look questionable.
Cheers,
Mike.
So I've been slowly building up my E92 M3 for trackdays, Cup2s, big brakes, Intrax coilovers and I'm at the point now where I'm really struggling to stay in my seat. My back and neck were hurting for a day after my last day at brands.
So this moves me on to trying to find a replacement for the drivers seat in my car.
What's important to me is that whatever I buy is still comfortable on long journeys - I have a 1k mile round trip in April that includes a trackday at Spa.
What I would really like is to retain access to the rear, but it's not a deal breaker - I can leave the passenger seat standard.
Also, what's the deal with using harnesses without a cage? Are they any I can use? I've seen harness bars, but they look questionable.
Cheers,
Mike.
The deal with using harnesses without a cage is that a harness holds you bolt upright and locked into your seat.
IF you should turn the thing on its roof, the roof will likely squash somewhat; with a conventional seatbelt you can move sideways into the space, with a harness you try to prop the roof up with your head, which likely does not end well - rather better to have a cage to do that than try to use your head.
Flipside is that I wouldn't want to drive a caged car anywhere without a helmet - far too likely your head makes contact with the cage in the event of any kind of accident, and that doesn't tend to end well either.
Personally for a mixed use car I'd go with a decent bucket and regular belts. Inclined to think harnesses are somewhat more of a fashion statement than a necessity, but that's just me.
IF you should turn the thing on its roof, the roof will likely squash somewhat; with a conventional seatbelt you can move sideways into the space, with a harness you try to prop the roof up with your head, which likely does not end well - rather better to have a cage to do that than try to use your head.
Flipside is that I wouldn't want to drive a caged car anywhere without a helmet - far too likely your head makes contact with the cage in the event of any kind of accident, and that doesn't tend to end well either.
Personally for a mixed use car I'd go with a decent bucket and regular belts. Inclined to think harnesses are somewhat more of a fashion statement than a necessity, but that's just me.
upsidedownmark said:
The deal with using harnesses without a cage is that a harness holds you bolt upright and locked into your seat.
IF you should turn the thing on its roof, the roof will likely squash somewhat; with a conventional seatbelt you can move sideways into the space, with a harness you try to prop the roof up with your head, which likely does not end well - rather better to have a cage to do that than try to use your head.
Flipside is that I wouldn't want to drive a caged car anywhere without a helmet - far too likely your head makes contact with the cage in the event of any kind of accident, and that doesn't tend to end well either.
Personally for a mixed use car I'd go with a decent bucket and regular belts. Inclined to think harnesses are somewhat more of a fashion statement than a necessity, but that's just me.
But in the event that the seat is taller than you? IF you should turn the thing on its roof, the roof will likely squash somewhat; with a conventional seatbelt you can move sideways into the space, with a harness you try to prop the roof up with your head, which likely does not end well - rather better to have a cage to do that than try to use your head.
Flipside is that I wouldn't want to drive a caged car anywhere without a helmet - far too likely your head makes contact with the cage in the event of any kind of accident, and that doesn't tend to end well either.
Personally for a mixed use car I'd go with a decent bucket and regular belts. Inclined to think harnesses are somewhat more of a fashion statement than a necessity, but that's just me.
I mean, I have the "benefit" of only being around 5'7".
As for harnesses being a fashion statement, I'm not so sure. In both cars I've tracked now, I've really struggled to stay upright and back in my seat once I had the combination of sticky tyres and good suspension.
Even at 5'7, the seat isn't going to be taller than you with a helmet on and even if it was, the seat back is going to do nothing to stop the weight of the car landing on your head.
As to staying in the seat, that's why a proper 'racecar' bucket, something like a this for instance:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=vi...
The belts don't hold you in, the seat does - except for when you crash. Your call at the end of the day, you did ask.
As to staying in the seat, that's why a proper 'racecar' bucket, something like a this for instance:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Product.do?method=vi...
The belts don't hold you in, the seat does - except for when you crash. Your call at the end of the day, you did ask.
And then with those seats you have the issue of the lap belt not being in contact with your centre of gravity, ie. your hips.
The only real answer is all or nothing.
Unless you use seats like these which will work with normal seat belts.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPARCO-R100-BLUE-SPORT-R...
The only real answer is all or nothing.
Unless you use seats like these which will work with normal seat belts.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPARCO-R100-BLUE-SPORT-R...
I've seen a few folks using the buckets with regular belts, not sure if there's anything special about those particular seats - you have to unmount the belt and thread it through the seat when installing, but it still works - as far as I know harnesses still mount to the same points over the hips as regular belts.
CG Lock. I found it works well enough to make the compromise of the Recaro Trendlines in my Megane work OK for track day use, not perfect but OK. A better alternative would be the Recaro Pole Position ABE. This bucket seat is shaped on the inside to take a standard 3 point belt buckle.
A good 4 point harness and a bucket will also stop you using the steering wheel as holding point, as opposed to a steering device.
Same with the brake pedal under braking.
How hard is it to bolt of the seats? You could swap the bucket seat and normal seat as an when needed.
You can run both 3 point interia reel and 4 point (via eye bolts and clip on belts) if required.
Same with the brake pedal under braking.
How hard is it to bolt of the seats? You could swap the bucket seat and normal seat as an when needed.
You can run both 3 point interia reel and 4 point (via eye bolts and clip on belts) if required.
I have full on buckets (carbon Sparco Circuit) with harnesses and a half-cage in one of my cars, buckets in a convertible (recaro SPGs) and a road BMW with Recaro Speed seats... I used all of them on track so can offer a view...
IMHO, it's the seats hold you in place more than the belts in terms of cornering if you buy something snug (recaro seats are very narrow so work well if your a slight build). I have no issues in the convertible on track 'sliding around'. I wouldn't use harnesses in the convertible for the reasons described in posts above - in the event of a roll, you need you be able to tuck into the car (even though the car has rollover hoops, if you go over in a gravel trap or uneven ground you don't want your head in a fixed position).
I have harnesses in the more hardcore track car as well as 3-points, I use the 3-point for any normal road use as 6-point harnesses are a pain to do/undo. on the track, 6-points... in the event of a crash, harnesses are a lot safer as they do not have inertia reels. normal belts even with pre-tensioners the do not restrain the movement of your body as well as harnesses. The harness does have 'give' in the webbing (which is why after a crash in a race or rally the marshals will sometimes cut the harnesses with a knife to ensure they are not re-used) They have more contact points with the body to spread the impact, and the crutch strap keeps the lower belts on your pelvis/hips which is very important to avoid organ damage. you can also use a HANS device with harnesses which I would recommend for track use on anything that used slicks or trackday tyres - I've hit a wall at castle combe at 80mph in a racecar while wearing a HANS and in a Sparco circuit seat (with head 'ears' to limit movement) and walked away without any back/neck pain. I wouldn't use a harness without a half-cage for the same reasons mentioned for the convertible, a normal car roof is reasonably strong, but I wouldn't want to rely on it keeping shape in a high speed roll.
I would suggest, either do it properly (half-cage, bucket, harness) or just a road style sports seat and standard belts. the recaro pole postion / ARB is good, or some of the sparco sports seats. I have some recaro Speed sports seats in my BMW and they are fine for track use with standard belts but not as uncompromising as buckets for long distance - in fact they are a lot more comfortable than the standard seats - I've done a run from London to Munich easily in them.
Something to note with any fixed back / composite / fibreglass seats - they get very hot on your back and legs since they don't breathe - the recaro speed or recaro CS sportster etc would probably be better for mixed use.
IMHO, it's the seats hold you in place more than the belts in terms of cornering if you buy something snug (recaro seats are very narrow so work well if your a slight build). I have no issues in the convertible on track 'sliding around'. I wouldn't use harnesses in the convertible for the reasons described in posts above - in the event of a roll, you need you be able to tuck into the car (even though the car has rollover hoops, if you go over in a gravel trap or uneven ground you don't want your head in a fixed position).
I have harnesses in the more hardcore track car as well as 3-points, I use the 3-point for any normal road use as 6-point harnesses are a pain to do/undo. on the track, 6-points... in the event of a crash, harnesses are a lot safer as they do not have inertia reels. normal belts even with pre-tensioners the do not restrain the movement of your body as well as harnesses. The harness does have 'give' in the webbing (which is why after a crash in a race or rally the marshals will sometimes cut the harnesses with a knife to ensure they are not re-used) They have more contact points with the body to spread the impact, and the crutch strap keeps the lower belts on your pelvis/hips which is very important to avoid organ damage. you can also use a HANS device with harnesses which I would recommend for track use on anything that used slicks or trackday tyres - I've hit a wall at castle combe at 80mph in a racecar while wearing a HANS and in a Sparco circuit seat (with head 'ears' to limit movement) and walked away without any back/neck pain. I wouldn't use a harness without a half-cage for the same reasons mentioned for the convertible, a normal car roof is reasonably strong, but I wouldn't want to rely on it keeping shape in a high speed roll.
I would suggest, either do it properly (half-cage, bucket, harness) or just a road style sports seat and standard belts. the recaro pole postion / ARB is good, or some of the sparco sports seats. I have some recaro Speed sports seats in my BMW and they are fine for track use with standard belts but not as uncompromising as buckets for long distance - in fact they are a lot more comfortable than the standard seats - I've done a run from London to Munich easily in them.
Something to note with any fixed back / composite / fibreglass seats - they get very hot on your back and legs since they don't breathe - the recaro speed or recaro CS sportster etc would probably be better for mixed use.
Edited by paulmnz on Thursday 25th February 12:04
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