Lotus elise 160/190/exige vs Caterham Superlight?
Discussion
I'm narrowing down my choices for a track day toy. While I realise that I'm a relative numpty when it comes to advanced and track driving, I'm willing to learn and will be taking a few days of instruction over the next year. So far I've taken things quite easy on track - you have to with a heavy 928! I'm now looking for a car that I can get in and feel comfortable with from the start, but from which I can keep on learning as I become more experienced.
The current favourites for out-and-out track cars with decent road manners are the Lotuses (Lotii?) and the Caterham. Reading what I can find about them it seems that the Caterham is a car that is benign on and over the limit and easy to play with, while the Lotuses tend to get out of shape very quickly once the limit is crossed but fantastically incisive up to that point. I'd rather not be terrified about pushing the car cos I'll never learn. Advice, pointers, and owner's views are very welcome.
>>> Edited by Whoozit on Monday 19th August 12:29
The current favourites for out-and-out track cars with decent road manners are the Lotuses (Lotii?) and the Caterham. Reading what I can find about them it seems that the Caterham is a car that is benign on and over the limit and easy to play with, while the Lotuses tend to get out of shape very quickly once the limit is crossed but fantastically incisive up to that point. I'd rather not be terrified about pushing the car cos I'll never learn. Advice, pointers, and owner's views are very welcome.
>>> Edited by Whoozit on Monday 19th August 12:29
Am currently looking at the same cars as you. I've settled upon the idea of a used exige for about 20k. I know some other 7 style cars may be faster on the track, but I love the looks of this, it's much more practicle and comfortable, plus the exclusivity will hold it's value well. I like the idea of a hardtop in the rain too!
Hi,
The Superlight R is fantastic, sure not so comfortable as a lotus but what are you after?? all cars are compromises but some less so then others.
Lotus's very easy to drive and good to the limit, SLR harder to drive (concentration) but faster and better at the limit and beyond ie more catchable and fealable (IMOH)
From reports in the Evo mags and talking to other owners the lotus can be hard/expensive to maintain & leaky fluids whereas the caterham are easy to maintain (not R500) and relativly cheap and reliable.
Exige was noisy, hot and clostophobic, SLR open air but brass monkey times in winter
But hey just wear more clothes.
Go for the Caterham Superlight R, you will never regret it. but hey Im biased.
Good hunting,
The Superlight R is fantastic, sure not so comfortable as a lotus but what are you after?? all cars are compromises but some less so then others.
Lotus's very easy to drive and good to the limit, SLR harder to drive (concentration) but faster and better at the limit and beyond ie more catchable and fealable (IMOH)
From reports in the Evo mags and talking to other owners the lotus can be hard/expensive to maintain & leaky fluids whereas the caterham are easy to maintain (not R500) and relativly cheap and reliable.
Exige was noisy, hot and clostophobic, SLR open air but brass monkey times in winter
But hey just wear more clothes. Go for the Caterham Superlight R, you will never regret it. but hey Im biased.
Good hunting,
Also biased but have owned both,
Visit any trackday and get a passenger ride in a Superlight - then in a Lotus - chances are you'll quickly decide which is the better on track.
I guess it really depends how fast you want to lap (as opposed to needing the car for a Tesco run in the wet) After all - driving sideways in a Lotus might be just what you're after.
Whatever you get - enjoy - and get it on track!
Steve
www.R500.com
>> Edited by getcarter on Sunday 25th August 18:43
Visit any trackday and get a passenger ride in a Superlight - then in a Lotus - chances are you'll quickly decide which is the better on track.
I guess it really depends how fast you want to lap (as opposed to needing the car for a Tesco run in the wet) After all - driving sideways in a Lotus might be just what you're after.
Whatever you get - enjoy - and get it on track!
Steve
www.R500.com
>> Edited by getcarter on Sunday 25th August 18:43
Personally I'd go for an Elise/Exige.
I know that the 7's are quicker, but I just don't feel safe in them.
I've raced against both Elises and Caterham/Westfields (both bike and car engined of all flavours) and the Caterhams win hands down on speed, but I always think that the drivers have had their brains removed. If you look at the crash stats for racing deaths and serious injuries, there is always a disproportionatly high number of 7 drivers in there.
The only time I've ever been scared on the track as a passenger was in Andrew Derodra's Superlight R. I remember thinking that if he lost it, there was a good chance I wouldn't walk away. Nothing to do with his driving ability. I've been out with a lot worse drivers and not been in the least bit worried for my safety.
Maybe I'm just a scaredycat
James
I know that the 7's are quicker, but I just don't feel safe in them.
I've raced against both Elises and Caterham/Westfields (both bike and car engined of all flavours) and the Caterhams win hands down on speed, but I always think that the drivers have had their brains removed. If you look at the crash stats for racing deaths and serious injuries, there is always a disproportionatly high number of 7 drivers in there.
The only time I've ever been scared on the track as a passenger was in Andrew Derodra's Superlight R. I remember thinking that if he lost it, there was a good chance I wouldn't walk away. Nothing to do with his driving ability. I've been out with a lot worse drivers and not been in the least bit worried for my safety.
Maybe I'm just a scaredycat
James
I drive an elise on trackdays and the only car I have driven in anger on track. Yes the elise is a bit temperamental on the limit but that makes it that much more satisfying. Take a few days with 1st Lotus and use an instructor for the odd session at trackdays/airfield days and you will be ok. The elise is my everday car so I appreciate the roof and boot. The seven-club are bloody fast and a pain at times but again the feeling of vunrability is my big concern.
(my car is posted under readerscars..)
(my car is posted under readerscars..)
The only things to consider when buying a car for track days are:
1) Can you afford/justify buying it.
2) Can you afford/justify the running costs.
3) Do you enjoy driving it on the track.
There are no prizes for having the most expensive or fastest car at a track day. The only awards are in your own head.
James
1) Can you afford/justify buying it.
2) Can you afford/justify the running costs.
3) Do you enjoy driving it on the track.
There are no prizes for having the most expensive or fastest car at a track day. The only awards are in your own head.
James
James,
Just checking to see if you ARE my accountant!
(Notice you drive an Ultima and a Merc)
Thought I'd post some alternatives to your views.
1. If you can afford and justify it - you are buying something WAY too slow.
2. If you can afford and justify the running costs - You are being WAY too sensible
3. If you enjoy driving it on track - then you have the right attitude - don't ever let the car dictate the enjoyment, and don't let the bank manager spoil the fun!
I do however agree with you James, on one point - more expensive is of no interest. Never met anyone on track in half a dozen years that is interested in prestige of car - only driving ability, skill and courtesy.
As for fast - well (forgive me) The whole idea of driving on track is to drive fast, and to enjoy the thrill of doing that. I know full well that we'd all love Silverstone in a Hilman Imp - but we all know, doing it in an Ultima beats the hell out of driving the Imp. And once we'd done it in the Imp - we'd want a whole bunch of mods to make it go faster! (like almost every track driver I've ever met - who spends their time making the car faster - right?)
The rewards are indeed in your head. And who in their right mind would take an Imp round Silverstone, when they could drive an Ultima.
Just a thought!
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 16:34
Just checking to see if you ARE my accountant!
(Notice you drive an Ultima and a Merc)
Thought I'd post some alternatives to your views.
1. If you can afford and justify it - you are buying something WAY too slow.
2. If you can afford and justify the running costs - You are being WAY too sensible
3. If you enjoy driving it on track - then you have the right attitude - don't ever let the car dictate the enjoyment, and don't let the bank manager spoil the fun!
I do however agree with you James, on one point - more expensive is of no interest. Never met anyone on track in half a dozen years that is interested in prestige of car - only driving ability, skill and courtesy.
As for fast - well (forgive me) The whole idea of driving on track is to drive fast, and to enjoy the thrill of doing that. I know full well that we'd all love Silverstone in a Hilman Imp - but we all know, doing it in an Ultima beats the hell out of driving the Imp. And once we'd done it in the Imp - we'd want a whole bunch of mods to make it go faster! (like almost every track driver I've ever met - who spends their time making the car faster - right?)
The rewards are indeed in your head. And who in their right mind would take an Imp round Silverstone, when they could drive an Ultima.
Just a thought!
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 16:34
Then again, would you rather buy something really fast and expensive that you can only afford to take out once a year, and are scared of breaking it, or something a lot slower and cheaper that you can afford to track every weekend and that won't cost a fortune if you break it.
We're talking track days here. My Ultima is a race car, so the priorities are different. You want something that is as fast as possible, because you are supposed to be competitive. The idea of a track day is to have fun. It doesn't matter if it's a Lambo or a Lada.
I had just as much fun driving my dear old Dad's dear old TVR S3 on a track day as I had in my Cerbera. According to a lot of people, the Cerbera should have been better, but it wasn't.
We're talking track days here. My Ultima is a race car, so the priorities are different. You want something that is as fast as possible, because you are supposed to be competitive. The idea of a track day is to have fun. It doesn't matter if it's a Lambo or a Lada.
I had just as much fun driving my dear old Dad's dear old TVR S3 on a track day as I had in my Cerbera. According to a lot of people, the Cerbera should have been better, but it wasn't.
Good points - and well said.
If I only took my track car on track once a year, I may consider a Lada. (Only at gunpoint tough)
But if you can afford £150 - £300 per day as a hobby, plus second car insurance, plus fuel, plus garage/upkeep, plus servicing, plus days off work, plus extras and upgrades, plus flameproof underpants
, plus specialist tuition - you may consider a Lada a waste of money - and decide on a decent track car (sorry to all Lada track day drivers).
Perhaps you see track days as 'just fun' as you race Ultimas James? But for those of us regular track day drivers ... when sombody asks for an opinion regarding Lotus v Caterham - we have to be honest!
It's not about fast, it's about quick,
It's not about posh, it's about good,
it's not about cars, it's about skill.
Nice cars both 7 and Lotus though.
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 19:00
If I only took my track car on track once a year, I may consider a Lada. (Only at gunpoint tough)
But if you can afford £150 - £300 per day as a hobby, plus second car insurance, plus fuel, plus garage/upkeep, plus servicing, plus days off work, plus extras and upgrades, plus flameproof underpants
, plus specialist tuition - you may consider a Lada a waste of money - and decide on a decent track car (sorry to all Lada track day drivers). Perhaps you see track days as 'just fun' as you race Ultimas James? But for those of us regular track day drivers ... when sombody asks for an opinion regarding Lotus v Caterham - we have to be honest!
It's not about fast, it's about quick,
It's not about posh, it's about good,
it's not about cars, it's about skill.
Nice cars both 7 and Lotus though.
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 19:00
So the 7 is good for the novice, because it's relatively cheap to repair if you're unlucky enough to have an off. However, it's a worse car to crash in from a safety point of view......
Oh decisions decisions...
Alternatively, just go out and spend 5 grand on a road legal race car (there are plenty about) and spend the extra cash on the fuel and fun. A race prepared Fiesta will be quicker around the track than just about any road car, and it'll be a lot cheaper to maintain and reppair. Or there's a Golf, Rover SD1, Talbot Sunbeam, Mini, Jag XJS.........
James
Oh decisions decisions...
Alternatively, just go out and spend 5 grand on a road legal race car (there are plenty about) and spend the extra cash on the fuel and fun. A race prepared Fiesta will be quicker around the track than just about any road car, and it'll be a lot cheaper to maintain and reppair. Or there's a Golf, Rover SD1, Talbot Sunbeam, Mini, Jag XJS.........
James
Got a feeling our views will merge soon James (I'm agreeing with most of what you say)...
However - The postee asked our views between The Lotus and The Caterham as a 'track toy' - and I'll stick to my view that if you want 'quick', get a Caterham Superlight - If you want to get 'out of shape' on track plus do some Tesco runs, and don't want to get wet - get the Lotus.
Both are great fun on track.
The poster will (IMHO) regret the Seven if he want's it as a road car and for the occasional track day (I did) - but I could line up an army of people that have sold thier Lotii (nice touch) to buy Sevens for track (mostly because they were getting bored of being overtaken all the time!) Hell I know Ferrari and Noble Owners that have/are thinking about selling their cars to buy Sevens. They wouldn't even consider buying a Lotus... because they want their second car as a 'track toy'.
As Autocar says: (the Seven) ..."makes all normal sportscars look utterly hopeless"
But you get wet.
Steve
However - The postee asked our views between The Lotus and The Caterham as a 'track toy' - and I'll stick to my view that if you want 'quick', get a Caterham Superlight - If you want to get 'out of shape' on track plus do some Tesco runs, and don't want to get wet - get the Lotus.
Both are great fun on track.
The poster will (IMHO) regret the Seven if he want's it as a road car and for the occasional track day (I did) - but I could line up an army of people that have sold thier Lotii (nice touch) to buy Sevens for track (mostly because they were getting bored of being overtaken all the time!) Hell I know Ferrari and Noble Owners that have/are thinking about selling their cars to buy Sevens. They wouldn't even consider buying a Lotus... because they want their second car as a 'track toy'.
As Autocar says: (the Seven) ..."makes all normal sportscars look utterly hopeless"
But you get wet.
Steve
There you go then Whoozit... get an Ultima (not a bad idea actually) - was on track with one this week... bloomin' quick... pic here >> www.stevecarter.com/oulton/18.jpg
Glad we sorted that one out James - bet we've really helped!
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 20:36
Glad we sorted that one out James - bet we've really helped!
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 20:36
quote:
There you go then Whoozit... get an Ultima
>> Edited by getcarter on Monday 26th August 20:36
Thanks for the recommendation - I think
Whichever car I get will be a track toy that should be practical enough to do a trip to/from a track of up to 2 hours or so. It also needs to be a car that is fast enough for me to have fun in from the start, and also that I can learn from as I take training and improve.
I'm off to Caterham this Saturday with a FOAF who races one and knows the factory staff, so I'll be trying a Superlight/R300. After that, Bell & Colvill is on my way home so it would be rude not to stop by and try their cars
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