RMA Donington Trackday
Discussion
Ummmm. Last Sunday at Donington with RMA was pretty awful - overcrowded, frequent stoppages, lots of idiotic driving. It was so bad that RMA sent letters to all attendees to apologise and explain the reasons for it, which were apparently largely down to the conditions and an unusually high proportion of prattish drivers. I (mostly) agree with them about the reasons and I don't think the day was a typical RMA day. They have an excellent reputation.
Their next one at Donington will probably be very good because they will be very focused on ensuring there's no repeat of last Sunday.
All my opinion - would be interested to hear how it goes if you decide to go for it.
Don
Their next one at Donington will probably be very good because they will be very focused on ensuring there's no repeat of last Sunday.
All my opinion - would be interested to hear how it goes if you decide to go for it.
Don
RMA days are usually very well run,
I'm very surprised to here about what happened at Donnington.
The breifing is usually enough to deter most idiots from driving like loonies, but some still do.
RMA encourage you to let them know if you see anyone compromising safety, which i must say i have seen plenty of, but after doing quite a few trackdays like i have, you get a sixth sense for when you get an idot around you, and give them a wide birth.
G.
>> Edited by Glenn McMenamin on Thursday 10th February 14:00
I'm very surprised to here about what happened at Donnington.
The breifing is usually enough to deter most idiots from driving like loonies, but some still do.
RMA encourage you to let them know if you see anyone compromising safety, which i must say i have seen plenty of, but after doing quite a few trackdays like i have, you get a sixth sense for when you get an idot around you, and give them a wide birth.
G.
>> Edited by Glenn McMenamin on Thursday 10th February 14:00
Glenn McMenamin said:
RMA days are usually very well run,
I'm very surprised to here about what happened at Donnington.
The breifing is usually enough to deter most idiots from driving like loonies, but some still do.
RMA encourage you to let them know if you see anyone compromising safety, which i must say i have seen plenty of, but after doing quite a few trackdays like i have, you get a sixth sense for when you get an idot around you, and give them a wide birth.
G.
>> Edited by Glenn McMenamin on Thursday 10th February 14:00
I was there that day Glenn.
Took the Honda with My neighbour Reg. The weather was awful, and the track really slippery.
Have to say there were some total tw@ts there.
Even after a lunch time bollocking, they were still spinning off and the way some of them were trying to overtake was frighteningly bad.
I nearly got taken out twice by one chap, in an R500 who couldnt understand the simple concept of not overtaking mid-corner.
Doni is otherwise quite an exciting circuit, but I would avoid it in winter again.
Certainly no fault of the RMA.
Sounds like the weather was mainly to blame then.
I did tell myself not to do trackdays at this time of year for this very reason, but we had been very lucky with the dry days at Bedford at the end of last year and the start of this one.
I've been fortunate enough to have only been on one really wet day, and that dried out pretty soon as it was quite warm.
There doesn't seem to be a trackday 'season' anymore, as they seem to be run all year round now, which is fine by me, but any day at this time of year is going to be hit and miss, so to speak !!
Perhaps i should get myself an Integra for these days Tiff !!!
G.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Thursday 10th February 22:39
I did tell myself not to do trackdays at this time of year for this very reason, but we had been very lucky with the dry days at Bedford at the end of last year and the start of this one.
I've been fortunate enough to have only been on one really wet day, and that dried out pretty soon as it was quite warm.
There doesn't seem to be a trackday 'season' anymore, as they seem to be run all year round now, which is fine by me, but any day at this time of year is going to be hit and miss, so to speak !!
Perhaps i should get myself an Integra for these days Tiff !!!
G.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Thursday 10th February 22:39
have to say glenn, that Integra is on3 of the best cars ive ever owned.
Ok its not as awesome as the gt3 (which is in a different league -to most cars),
but of all the "normal everyday "cars Ive had, its easily the best.
That is despite a crappy plastic interior and loads of road noise. I use it every day and end up in the Vtec zone on every trip-guaranteed.
Ill have to take you out in it on the 5th.
Ok its not as awesome as the gt3 (which is in a different league -to most cars),
but of all the "normal everyday "cars Ive had, its easily the best.
That is despite a crappy plastic interior and loads of road noise. I use it every day and end up in the Vtec zone on every trip-guaranteed.
Ill have to take you out in it on the 5th.
I was there on the 6th spectating and taking a few photos. First time I had been there during am RMA organised day.
Despite what Mike Wilds said during the mid day briefing, most of the other days I have attended at Donny, as spectator or participant, have seen one or two car damaging shunts, wet, damp or dry. AFAIK always single car accidents.
The track does seem to be very slippery when wet and some parts of it don't dry quite as quickly as others - Craner Curves for example.
Form what I saw - am from the pit area, afternoon out around the circuit - the driving standards seemed quite high by comparison with other days I have attended. Perhaps some more passing in 'curves' but I did not see an incident because of that and all that I saw suggested that both parties were well aware of what was going on. Obviously I did not see everything!
What was strange was how the entire 30 odd cars on track always seemed to be occupying the same part of the track. Sometimes there would be no vehicles around for ages, then a huge snake would appear.
I assumed that it was 'cos most cars out on the day were very capable but a few were just a little slower, espec on the bends, and the normal ebb and flow was lost due to the narrow dry line in the afternoon.
Morning? Well, it was simply very damp.
Also the vehicle stock seemed to have few failures or noise level exclusions, so the numbers did not thin out much as the day wore on! It's the first time I have seen such long queues at the pit exit.
One aspect that I did find puzzling is the way so many cars were released from the pit lane when fast traffic was approaching yet not many were released when the track seemed quiet. In addition the joiners, often but not always, went out quite slowly. I could understand the reasons they might but it did not help those approaching to judge braking points and track position.
Mike Wilds was out on track later in the day and I think he experienced that aspect himself on a couple of occasions. Having to go into Redgate off line on the damp part of the track is not something I would relish much if part of a snake of cars.
Despite what Mike Wilds said during the mid day briefing, most of the other days I have attended at Donny, as spectator or participant, have seen one or two car damaging shunts, wet, damp or dry. AFAIK always single car accidents.
The track does seem to be very slippery when wet and some parts of it don't dry quite as quickly as others - Craner Curves for example.
Form what I saw - am from the pit area, afternoon out around the circuit - the driving standards seemed quite high by comparison with other days I have attended. Perhaps some more passing in 'curves' but I did not see an incident because of that and all that I saw suggested that both parties were well aware of what was going on. Obviously I did not see everything!
What was strange was how the entire 30 odd cars on track always seemed to be occupying the same part of the track. Sometimes there would be no vehicles around for ages, then a huge snake would appear.
I assumed that it was 'cos most cars out on the day were very capable but a few were just a little slower, espec on the bends, and the normal ebb and flow was lost due to the narrow dry line in the afternoon.
Morning? Well, it was simply very damp.
Also the vehicle stock seemed to have few failures or noise level exclusions, so the numbers did not thin out much as the day wore on! It's the first time I have seen such long queues at the pit exit.
One aspect that I did find puzzling is the way so many cars were released from the pit lane when fast traffic was approaching yet not many were released when the track seemed quiet. In addition the joiners, often but not always, went out quite slowly. I could understand the reasons they might but it did not help those approaching to judge braking points and track position.
Mike Wilds was out on track later in the day and I think he experienced that aspect himself on a couple of occasions. Having to go into Redgate off line on the damp part of the track is not something I would relish much if part of a snake of cars.
I think that the main reason for the traffic was the enourmous amount of red flags - I think there were more that day than in all the other trackdays I've been to combined (not joking!). This meant that big queues built up in the pit and when the track was reopened everyone was out at the same time. Also apparently there were a fw people who didn't look in their mirrors so no-one could get past, apparently.
peterpeter said:
RMA days are usually very well run,
I'm very surprised to here about what happened at Donnington.
The breifing is usually enough to deter most idiots from driving like loonies, but some still do.
RMA encourage you to let them know if you see anyone compromising safety, which i must say i have seen plenty of, but after doing quite a few trackdays like i have, you get a sixth sense for when you get an idot around you, and give them a wide birth.
G.
>> Edited by Glenn McMenamin on Thursday 10th February 14:00
I was there that day Glenn.
Took the Honda with My neighbour Reg. The weather was awful, and the track really slippery.
Have to say there were some total tw@ts there.
Even after a lunch time bollocking, they were still spinning off and the way some of them were trying to overtake was frighteningly bad.
I nearly got taken out twice by one chap, in an R500 who couldnt understand the simple concept of not overtaking mid-corner.
Doni is otherwise quite an exciting circuit, but I would avoid it in winter again.
Certainly no fault of the RMA.
Hi peterpeter I was there also at donington and I witnessed some very poor pit exit marshalling...letting all types of cars out when others are approaching is moronic at best, what made it worse is that when the track was clear the marshal often stood idle and didn't let cars out! I know that there is a track limit of 30 cars with a 5 car leeway but there is no excuse IMHO for signalling a car to exit the pits when it's not safe - which happened so many times I lost count.
when I brought this up with the organiser he said that it was the drivers responsibilty to edge out only when it's clear and to treat the pit exit like a slip road! ffs!
the marshall is in a position of trust: if he says "right, it's clear to go" when he can see that it blatently is not that to my mind is reckless, stupid or both 
every other trackday i've done (i've used easytrack and bookatrack) the marshalls have been excellent
I won't let this put me off another RMA day because every body deserves a second chance but I hope it doesn't happen again.
It was a shame I didn't recognise you, I would've loved to meet you in person - I've read so many of your impassioned arguments that make PH so entertaining! I was in the green mini btw
dcw@pr said:
I think that the main reason for the traffic was the enourmous amount of red flags - I think there were more that day than in all the other trackdays I've been to combined (not joking!).
To be honest, from the days I have visited Donny, it was about average, especially considering the wet conditions in the morning. The afternoon, other than about 2 minutes in, seemed much better once the dry line was established. The only problem being that people did not want to leave the dry line (not unreasonable) at all, anywhere, from what I saw, so reasonable passing opportunities to allow things to spread out were few - other than the 2 longer straights.
Well, one straight if you were being careful on the pits straight expecting cars to appear from the pit lane.
LongQ said:
To be honest, from the days I have visited Donny, it was about average, especially considering the wet conditions in the morning. The afternoon, other than about 2 minutes in, seemed much better once the dry line was established. The only problem being that people did not want to leave the dry line (not unreasonable) at all, anywhere, from what I saw, so reasonable passing opportunities to allow things to spread out were few - other than the 2 longer straights.
I've been going to RMA days for about 3 years, I would say that i have winessed about 6 Red Flags in total before Sunday. However, a lot of the times have been at Bedford when they don't stop to retrieve people.
>> Edited by dcw@pr on Tuesday 15th February 12:23
dcw@pr said:
I've been going to RMA days for about 3 years, I would say that i have winessed about 6 Red Flags in total before Sunday. However, a lot of the times have been at Bedford when they don't stop to retrieve people.
Donington is susceptible to a minor off getting people stuck in gravel traps necessitating red flags and extraction. Still, better that than a concrete wall. Let's face it it is quite a tricky circuit which can fool you into thinking it's easyish particularly when a bit damp.
The concrete at the Old Hairpin used to be the regular incident location but it looks like the gravel traps have been extended again around there.
The wall alongside the entrance to the pit lane seems to be the new favourite for some reason.
I've seen as many, maybe more red light events in a day. Never the long queue waiting to get onto the track though.
Edit to say - wet day and new kerbs recently installed. I wonder if the extended length of some of the kerbs may have caught people out in a way that a grass run-off area, even though damp, may not have done? May be better when not so new? Just a thought.
>> Edited by LongQ on Friday 11th February 15:10
>> Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 15th February 12:35
Incidentally, some work has been done to the circuit over the winter, so it is very slippery at the moment. Was on a test day on Monday in torrential rain and some of the other race cars didn't go out at all. Even the pros were putting the cars into the gravel, being easily caught out by sudden changes in grip. I don't know why it is so slippery as I think the surface was left alone, mostly the work was gravel traps and kerbs. Strange.
Grip levels at Donington have been lower since the new surface went down before last year. It is okay if properly wet but when damp it is very difficult and for track day enthusiasts it must be a nightmare.
The aircraft from East Mids also deposit aviation fuel which makes it more difficult on corners such as Macleans.
Personally if I was going for a fun track day in an expensive car and the track was very damp I would be spectating...
The aircraft from East Mids also deposit aviation fuel which makes it more difficult on corners such as Macleans.
Personally if I was going for a fun track day in an expensive car and the track was very damp I would be spectating...
sorry chaps but these excuses about the track surface are just stupid. you drive to the conditions - whatever they may be. in my opinion there's no more excuse for leaving the track in the wet/damp than there is in the dry. we all manage to drive around in the wet on the roads often enough without crashing.
as for "even the pro drivers got caught out" - dont make me laugh - a staggering proportion of the stoppages on our track days are know-it-all MSA license holders out to prove a point to fellow competitors, friends or sponsors.
apologies for the seemingly argumentative post but this is a topic I do feel strongly about.
J5
BaT
as for "even the pro drivers got caught out" - dont make me laugh - a staggering proportion of the stoppages on our track days are know-it-all MSA license holders out to prove a point to fellow competitors, friends or sponsors.
apologies for the seemingly argumentative post but this is a topic I do feel strongly about.
J5
BaT
I was there yesterday in the CSL (started damp, quickly dried). It was REALLY slippery but you just had to drive round carefully. Loads of people went off though...
The new kerbs are excellent.
The apex of the Craners left-hander has one, and so does the left-hander Schwantz. I was using the entire kerb as they're flat.
The new kerbs are excellent.
The apex of the Craners left-hander has one, and so does the left-hander Schwantz. I was using the entire kerb as they're flat.
Hey Johnny. I know where you are coming from, but seriously, there was something on the track surface the other day after the contractors latest work. I am not talking about last year's work, this happened in the last few weeks. The cars I am talking about were British GT contenders with some big names! I am not talking about wanna be MSA license holders (like me!). Obviously you tend to push the car a bit more when testing than on a track day - was just trying to point out that something has changed at Donington over and above the new gravel traps and kerbs. I actually thought the track felt wider.
At the test day incidentally, a couple of Formula 3000 cars crashed, as did a Porsche and TVR British GT car. A few others too I think. I have not seen this at Donny on a test day before, especially such a quiet one. My car caught me out a few times too, and I was only going 8/10ths demoing it for a potential sale.
At the test day incidentally, a couple of Formula 3000 cars crashed, as did a Porsche and TVR British GT car. A few others too I think. I have not seen this at Donny on a test day before, especially such a quiet one. My car caught me out a few times too, and I was only going 8/10ths demoing it for a potential sale.
evoblade said:
Hey Johnny. I know where you are coming from, but seriously, there was something on the track surface the other day after the contractors latest work. I am not talking about last year's work, this happened in the last few weeks. The cars I am talking about were British GT contenders with some big names! I am not talking about wanna be MSA license holders (like me!). Obviously you tend to push the car a bit more when testing than on a track day - was just trying to point out that something has changed at Donington over and above the new gravel traps and kerbs. I actually thought the track felt wider.
At the test day incidentally, a couple of Formula 3000 cars crashed, as did a Porsche and TVR British GT car. A few others too I think. I have not seen this at Donny on a test day before, especially such a quiet one. My car caught me out a few times too, and I was only going 8/10ths demoing it for a potential sale.
Interesting comment about the track feeling wider. The kerbs are certainly wider than the previous versions and longer as well. Some also seem to be in locations where there were no kerbs previously.
The visual effect might be to make the track appear wider (the blacktop doesn't look wider from the trackside and there are no signs of patched-on surfaces anywhere obvious from there either). That in turn may just trick people, especially regulars, into reading the track or their speed differently and going marginally over the limits available.
Now let's add to that the relatively light use over the winter period, any residue muck from the kerb and gravel trap work and the fact that the surface, though smoother than the old one, is still quite slippery and especially so when wet.
Anything off line will almost certainly be on tarmac that is wet/damp, mucky and cold. Not a good combination for competition tyres for example. And certain parts of the circuit seem not to dry very quickly at all - Craner Curves for example does well to get a dry line of any width even at the end of a dry afternoon if the morning has been wet.
Or maybe its the aviation fuel ... all those Tsunami relief flights adding to the deposits - especially that darned great Russian thing that flies in and out regularly.
I'm with John on this. On the first lap out I found an Elise stalled sideways on the right hander after craner curves - there's no excuse for going off before even completing a sighting lap.
A bit later a t
t in a black porker overtook and a queue on the back straight and tried to take some more after the hairpin. He apparently hadn't noticed they were indicating to go into the pits and caused the whole line to come to an emergency halt.
Yes the track was slippy that Sunday, as it was the last time I went in November when there was snow on the ground and black ice on the back straight (few incidents that day). But that's why you start slow and build up pace as you feel out how much traction is available. A slippery track is no excuse for people to spin out all over the place in the first couple of hours.
Don
A bit later a t
t in a black porker overtook and a queue on the back straight and tried to take some more after the hairpin. He apparently hadn't noticed they were indicating to go into the pits and caused the whole line to come to an emergency halt. Yes the track was slippy that Sunday, as it was the last time I went in November when there was snow on the ground and black ice on the back straight (few incidents that day). But that's why you start slow and build up pace as you feel out how much traction is available. A slippery track is no excuse for people to spin out all over the place in the first couple of hours.
Don
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