Car track day etiquette?
Discussion
Ok, so i'm used to mixing it in the fast group at Bike trackdays elbow to elbow- but I've never done a car trackday in my life. This year, i'm gonna get stuck in and plan to do quite a few in the UK and a trip to the 'Ring at some point.
What's the deal with overtaking etiquette at most car trackdays? I know they must vary from organiser to organiser, but is it 'pass by consent'- or just common sense and make sure you leave enough room?
Appreciate your thoughts people.
James
What's the deal with overtaking etiquette at most car trackdays? I know they must vary from organiser to organiser, but is it 'pass by consent'- or just common sense and make sure you leave enough room?
Appreciate your thoughts people.
James
nutcase said:
Ok, so i'm used to mixing it in the fast group at Bike trackdays elbow to elbow- but I've never done a car trackday in my life. This year, i'm gonna get stuck in and plan to do quite a few in the UK and a trip to the 'Ring at some point.
What's the deal with overtaking etiquette at most car trackdays? I know they must vary from organiser to organiser, but is it 'pass by consent'- or just common sense and make sure you leave enough room?
Appreciate your thoughts people.
James
Agree with Mike. However, some organisers just say no overtaking in braking areas or in the corners. i.e you can't really get away with outbraking someone as you would in the fast group on a bike t/day. For the same reason, you also can't get away with informal 'races' during a session.
From a personal viewpoint, I think it's easier to spot a rider's ability quicker during time on track than it is that of a car driver. I belive some car drivers mask their ability in fast cars, but this doens't necesserily mean they can drive - although they will be lapping quite quickly. Although you get the twist and go merchants on bike days, it's fairly obvious who's quick round the corners....
When at the ring, the golden rule is to use your mirrors often and also be aware that bikes take different lines to cars (which I'm sure you're aware of) - several UK cars over there don't seem to recognise this. Also beware of locals' cars which although they may well look like mk1 golfs/ opel kaddetts, etc, they can probably take on a 911 turbo driven moderately quickly!!
Get over there quickly before they change their minds regarding public lapping. See some of Flemke's posts for informed comment on the ring.
lovely.
Car days are generally (with a few exceptions) very diferent to bike days which are often more like the hectic free for all first lap of a GP 
Some days do indeed have a lot more emphasis on 'overtaking with concent' but you will still someimes get the doddery tw@t who thinks he is zooming along & never looks in his mirrors or pulls over despite the line of cars up his chuff, & also the mega agressive type who drive like they are on a qualifying lap, as a whole tho on the better organised days the driving standards are generally high.
Some organisers are very strict- with RMA(normally most expensive but lots of very expensive machinery on track) for example I belive if you have 2 complaints about your driving you can be sent home, others tho can be a lot slacker.
Owners club events of expensive machinery are often some of the best marshalled.
The 'ring on a busy public day; say a sunny sunday afternoon- fecking hell, think bike day fast group & fast fellas in cars, mixing with m25 rush hour traffic all on a twsity b road & that will give you a fair picture! 'Most' but not all, will only pass on the left tho
>> Edited by iguana on Saturday 29th January 18:51
Some days do indeed have a lot more emphasis on 'overtaking with concent' but you will still someimes get the doddery tw@t who thinks he is zooming along & never looks in his mirrors or pulls over despite the line of cars up his chuff, & also the mega agressive type who drive like they are on a qualifying lap, as a whole tho on the better organised days the driving standards are generally high.
Some organisers are very strict- with RMA(normally most expensive but lots of very expensive machinery on track) for example I belive if you have 2 complaints about your driving you can be sent home, others tho can be a lot slacker.
Owners club events of expensive machinery are often some of the best marshalled.
The 'ring on a busy public day; say a sunny sunday afternoon- fecking hell, think bike day fast group & fast fellas in cars, mixing with m25 rush hour traffic all on a twsity b road & that will give you a fair picture! 'Most' but not all, will only pass on the left tho
>> Edited by iguana on Saturday 29th January 18:51
Agree with the comments above. If you haven't done a car trackday before, I'd choose the trackday provider with care - most are OK, but the best ones are excellent. I usually use RMA, Bookatrack, or Goldtrack, as they are all pretty hot on safety, and don't stand for any nonsense. Easytrack also have a very good reputation. For a beginner in cars, I'd recommend Bookatrack - the most novice friendly provider I've experienced. Their overtake by consent only rule works really well.
Thanks for the comments, pretty much what I thought but worth asking. I also want to book somewhere I can get to grips with the Bimmer's handling- i.e. plenty of run-off and won't matter if I spin. Maybe going to a drifting event somewhere would be the best way forward (or sideways as it were)...?
nutcase said:
Thanks for the comments, pretty much what I thought but worth asking. I also want to book somewhere I can get to grips with the Bimmer's handling- i.e. plenty of run-off and won't matter if I spin. Maybe going to a drifting event somewhere would be the best way forward (or sideways as it were)...?
Been said before & yes it can be a little "bland" as a circuit, but for a first timer out on track, you can't really beat Bedford. No armco, masses of run-off (grass) & a spin almost anywhere won't hurt you or the car. Tends to be oversold though & therefore can get v busy on track at times.
Agree totally with Martin Hayter, RMA - usually excellent days but they don't suffer fools gladly (thankfully). Generally their days are more expensive & the machinery tends to be more expensive (I've regularly seen individual cars valued at £1,500,000 + on track on the overseas trips), which leads to a certain level of shall we say respect & good natured behaviour from everyone else. Lapping with & overtaking a £1,500,000 + car really focuses the mind & concentration. There also tends to be more experience on track, fewer first timers. Good back up available for tyres & mechanicals etc. But do anything stupid or try & take the law into your own hands & Graham Clarke will ensure you're going home PDQ. It's for good reason that RMA are the ONLY UK track company to run exclusive members only days at the Ring with flying laps, i.e. not the public days which require you to come in at each lap. Don't reaaly think RMA is marketing to first timers which means the briefings can be somewhat "limited".
Bookatrack - very friendly set up, best web site of any track day (along with Easytrack's), Jonny runs an excellent company & deserves success. Track cars for hire. Excellent briefings particularly for first timers, again good back up for tyres & mechanicals. Down to earth approach. Jonny seems to take a genuine interest in ensuring everyone has a good time & enjoys themselves.
Easytrack - much of the above really.
Trakzone (Donington)- tends to lack a "personal" involvement, but to its credit runs a fairly cheap & cheerful approach at what is undoubtedly one of the best circuits in the UK. Can get busy. Often sessioned. See more "offs" & spins at Donington Trakzone than anywhere else though. Has high ratio of first timers or inexperienced. Lots of spoilered hot-hatches. Lots of hot heads.
Thanks for the detailed replies. The one problem at the moment is the lack of...ahem, silencing on the car i've bought. Although I need to get the sound levels checked, Iguana's view is that at present it's chucking out 100 dB+, so this will rule it out from a few of the more 'sensitive' circuits shall we say...
Will need to get Milltek to look at some silencing options for me.
Will need to get Milltek to look at some silencing options for me.
James
You can get a device called a 'supertrap', which bolts onto the rear exit pipe of the existing silencer. The device holds plates in it, which depending upon the number of plates, limits the noise to different degrees. As it also tends to increase the back pressure in the system, you will find that the cars' breathing is slightly limited and hence it's performance is slightly down. The device is about 150, but will save time and money ensuring a 'custom' exhaust is up to the job. It's quite difficult to find a quite exhaust which is operating optimum flow rates fo the exhaust gases and generating suficient back pressure to efficiently scavenge the cylinders.
Miltek do bldy good off the shelf sytems for BMWs though. I could tell you how a miltek system on an Evo sport E30 M3 instantly delivered 35hp over a 'custom' made H&S, but that would have to be an offline topic...
You can get a device called a 'supertrap', which bolts onto the rear exit pipe of the existing silencer. The device holds plates in it, which depending upon the number of plates, limits the noise to different degrees. As it also tends to increase the back pressure in the system, you will find that the cars' breathing is slightly limited and hence it's performance is slightly down. The device is about 150, but will save time and money ensuring a 'custom' exhaust is up to the job. It's quite difficult to find a quite exhaust which is operating optimum flow rates fo the exhaust gases and generating suficient back pressure to efficiently scavenge the cylinders.
Miltek do bldy good off the shelf sytems for BMWs though. I could tell you how a miltek system on an Evo sport E30 M3 instantly delivered 35hp over a 'custom' made H&S, but that would have to be an offline topic...
agreed, they rob power and don't look too nice, but they're cheap (150) compared to having a custom exhaust made (circa 1000), and how much time do people actually use theirs cars on track for? maybe 20 hours / year? Seems like a good compromise to me for not much money, but each to their own!
I'd second the comments on Bookatrack and Trakzone...the first are excellent, the second hopeless.
BaT - never had a problem, usually plenty of space on-track. Very helpful, well marshalled.
Trakzone - did one day, track was crowded (30-odd per session on a 2-mile circuit), no marshals (cameras and lights only, so no blue- or black-flagging), very little open tarmac to let her rip, full of GTi's driven by novices, with a few competition cars using it as a practice day and ignoring those few rules that the briefing had given us - was nearly sideswiped on the kink after the old hairpin by a touring-car spec Vectra who decided to overtake on the inside of the corner! And when I complained, they said they'd had other complaints...yet he stayed on all day!
It was cheap, but I wouldn't go back as it was far less fun than a BaT day at the same place - more frustrating, and more nerve-wracking.
BaT - never had a problem, usually plenty of space on-track. Very helpful, well marshalled.
Trakzone - did one day, track was crowded (30-odd per session on a 2-mile circuit), no marshals (cameras and lights only, so no blue- or black-flagging), very little open tarmac to let her rip, full of GTi's driven by novices, with a few competition cars using it as a practice day and ignoring those few rules that the briefing had given us - was nearly sideswiped on the kink after the old hairpin by a touring-car spec Vectra who decided to overtake on the inside of the corner! And when I complained, they said they'd had other complaints...yet he stayed on all day!
It was cheap, but I wouldn't go back as it was far less fun than a BaT day at the same place - more frustrating, and more nerve-wracking.
havoc said:
I'd second the comments on Bookatrack and Trakzone...the first are excellent, the second hopeless.
BaT - never had a problem, usually plenty of space on-track. Very helpful, well marshalled.
Trakzone - did one day, track was crowded (30-odd per session on a 2-mile circuit), no marshals (cameras and lights only, so no blue- or black-flagging), very little open tarmac to let her rip, full of GTi's driven by novices, with a few competition cars using it as a practice day and ignoring those few rules that the briefing had given us - was nearly sideswiped on the kink after the old hairpin by a touring-car spec Vectra who decided to overtake on the inside of the corner! And when I complained, they said they'd had other complaints...yet he stayed on all day!
It was cheap, but I wouldn't go back as it was far less fun than a BaT day at the same place - more frustrating, and more nerve-wracking.
Mate
You won't find blue (overtaking) flags at trackdays, it is normally left up to the observation skills of the participants. You will still see a black flag if necessary, but as per a race, this won't be held out by a marshall, but on the start/finish line.
Silverstone GP track is run 'without marshals' (from a flag perspective) with the circuit being centrally controlled (and recorded in real time) from the control tower. What's wrong with using lights on the circuit?
You may well find there are people in competition spec cars, or old touring cars, on several days, it doesn't mean they can drive the car just because they own it. Caveat emptor!
At the end of the day choose an orgaiser you feel comfortable and safe with. Be careful with any negative comments you make about any companies/individuals though otherwise Ted will be on your back!
fergus said:
You won't find blue (overtaking) flags at trackdays,
RMA run the full selection of flags at their Spa events. I found this particularly useful as in a Formula Ford the F1 car caught up quite quickly
With regard to SuperTraps. One advantage is you can 'tune' them to the circuit or remove them completely a bit easier than a complete system. We keep a tally of the number of plates that will get you through at each circuit. Noticeably the static test often needs fewer plates than the drive by monitoring.
rustybin said:
You won't find blue (overtaking) flags at trackdays,
RMA run the full selection of flags at their Spa events. I found this particularly useful as in a Formula Ford the F1 car caught up quite quickly
With regard to SuperTraps. One advantage is you can 'tune' them to the circuit or remove them completely a bit easier than a complete system. We keep a tally of the number of plates that will get you through at each circuit. Noticeably the static test often needs fewer plates than the drive by monitoring.
OK. RMA do run at the 'professional' end of the trackday spectrum, hence, as previously mentioned the exotica that can usually be found at their events! historic F1, group C cars, GT cars, etc. I think they are one of the few companies who offer the full spectrum of warning flags.
The static tests always amuse me, as the engine isn't under load as per the drive by test, so will always be quiter. I've often seen people tuning ST as you mention.
fergus said:
Mate
You won't find blue (overtaking) flags at trackdays, it is normally left up to the observation skills of the participants. You will still see a black flag if necessary, but as per a race, this won't be held out by a marshall, but on the start/finish line.
Strange, I've done a fair few over the last 2+ years, and I've seen blue flags. You must have been going to the wrong trackdays!
Agreed black flag is only at the finish line, but my point was Trakzone seemed to have lost theirs. 
fergus said:Nothing, except insofar as you can't see anywhere near as much on a camera as you can with a marshal actually there.
What's wrong with using lights on the circuit?
fergus said:Very fair point, seen plenty of evidence to support that. But the muppet ignored the rules given out in the briefing, and as such became a danger to other drivers.
You may well find there are people in competition spec cars, or old touring cars, on several days, it doesn't mean they can drive the car just because they own it.
fergus said:Now that I have to disagree with...it's akin to saying you've got to accept the risk of being mugged when you head into a city-centre after dark - it implies a total abrogation of the responsibility of both those policing the area (T-day organiser / police) and of the individual breaching the law or regulation (driver / mugger). Which is increasingly prevalent in society today, but still not acceptable or justified.
Caveat emptor!
fergus said:My comments were based on first-hand experience and observation, and in response to a direct question. That's well within the forum rules, so don't get yourself worked up.
Be careful with any negative comments you make about any companies/individuals though otherwise Ted will be on your back!
francisb said:
nutcase. a loud v8 bmw... its a long shot but its not the AmD e36 is it?
edited.
ah it is. heard it on the phone the other day. LOUD V8 mmm... (mine was the black e30 next to it at AmD the last time i saw it)
>> Edited by francisb on Monday 31st January 16:00
LOL, that's the one. I get it this weekend, so can't wait for another blat in it.
How loud do you reckon it is then, compared to other track stuff you've heard?
You can borrow a noise meter, e.g. BaT will post you theirs. Quite easy to simulate a static tests even though the meters vary, and the surroundings and current weather can have a large effect! Very hard to simulate the drive-by noise though. If you're well above 100, it will generally mean you get black flagged, and waste your money and your day. If you're using a car on track a lot, you may as well make it as quiet as possible - sad but true :-|
I've just exchanged the SR3 for a Caterham, and first jobs will be huge RaceCo exhaust and an airbox. Given the exhaust is on the drivers side it was making me deaf anyway!
It sounds like your car has a custom exhaust. Get someone to add a few extra straight-through silencer sections to it until it's quiet enough - these shouldn't soak power or change the tuned length. If it's a BMW V8, it's probably not that sensitive anyway.
I've just exchanged the SR3 for a Caterham, and first jobs will be huge RaceCo exhaust and an airbox. Given the exhaust is on the drivers side it was making me deaf anyway!
It sounds like your car has a custom exhaust. Get someone to add a few extra straight-through silencer sections to it until it's quiet enough - these shouldn't soak power or change the tuned length. If it's a BMW V8, it's probably not that sensitive anyway.
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