Accident at a track - what would happen if?

[Targarama]

Let's say there is an accident in the Mansell/Needell style at a trackday - i.e. someone hits someone else. Assuming both are insured for one minute, who would pay out? On a track it must a be lot harder to decide if someone is more at fault?

How about if you spin off/stall and another car piles into you. He has insurance. Would they pay for your repairs?

Just wondering ... I'd love to hear some true scenarios/the results.

[joospeed]

as far as i know track insurance only covers *your* own car and not a thrid party.

[GarryM]

I think insurance cover on track only covers your own car. Any damage to someone else's car is down to them. Hopefully if someone is obviously to blame, they would do the decent thing and either pay for the damage or at least contribute.

[mikeww]

Would be a very slippery slope to start going down IMHO.
You are responsible for your vehicle( safety, driving standards et al) and any costs incurred on the day both to your vehicle and potentially to the circuit as well.The idea of getting into arguments about who's fault it might be just isn't worth contemplating.
There is really no valid excuse for spinning or getting close to another car on a track day and personally have never seen two cars come together. Best option is to go with reputable operators and drive within your limits.

[2 Smokin Barrels]

Regular track day attendees will have seen some real horrors. Prangs are quite common, so somebody must know the answer. (If they're not to embarrassed to admit it )

[mikeww]

Must go with some less organised operators then. Lost count of the number of track days I've done and apart from some single car, self inflicted incidents not seen anything.

[CraigAlsop]

2 Smokin Barrels said:

Regular track day attendees will have seen some real horrors. Prangs are quite common, so somebody must know the answer. (If they're not to embarrassed to admit it )

Yup, it's pretty simple - trackday insurance only covers your own car. Most people don't even bother, so if you hit someone else, that's just life.

[roop]

Yep, just you covered so don't hit ayone...!

AFAICR Needell never hit Mansell (was just very close) Mansell tank-slapped and went off of his own accord...

[Graham]

I do about 1/2 dozen track days a year plus a load of test days and i've only ever seen single car accidents.

come race day though its very different

[daydreamer]

Graham said:

I do about 1/2 dozen track days a year plus a load of test days and i've only ever seen single car accidents. come race day though its very different

Very ture

Graham - any idea what new bits I need for the car after the pit garage repairs back in October - or am I best just to replace everything

[Don]

Graham said:

I do about 1/2 dozen track days a year plus a load of test days and i've only ever seen single car accidents.

What the man said. I've not yet seen two cars come together. If everyone obeys the rules it should be impossible.

Its why organisers get really, really shirty if anyone starts playing silly buggers.

[cwk]

I'm insured through Aon and pay a premium of 1% of the car's value per track day for cover.

As far as I remember, the policy specifically excludes "participant to participant" incidents.

I can check the policy over the weekend and let you know for sure on Monday, if you like.

HTH

Charles

[GreenV8S]

I've lost count of the number of track days I've done, and sadly it is not at all uncommon to see single car loss-of-control type accidents (probably one major off per three or four track days). However I've only ever see one collision, and that was caused by two inexperienced drivers putting their cars in the wriong place at the wrong time, and one of them then losing control and spinning into the other. The risk of collision was very apparent and if either driver had been a little more experienced it would have been completely avoidable.

At a track day I would not expect anyone else to pay for damage to my car regardless of circumstances.

>> Edited by GreenV8S on Friday 28th January 09:48

[jacko lah]

cwk said:

I'm insured through Aon and pay a premium of 1% of the car's value per track day for cover.

My car cost £40 and is worth maybe £500 on open market. (Although I'd demand £1000 based on Owners-club Valuation) so I'd pay like £0.04p to £1 for cover? Cool ? Cheap as chips !!

[evokat]

There was a legendary ding between two integrale evos a while back (very well known in the grale world). the handbagging that went on on the grale forum was amazing- it still rears its head every now and then.
To this day it has not been resolved.... I am with Aon as well- only reason I am with them is the trackday cover- which used to be free.

Robin

[tvrbob]

In the case of mechanical damage it is surely dependant on the contract you sign at the track but your liability is greater than twisted bits of metal. Sometimes people get hurt too.

You are answering with regard to the limitation on insured liability. Your personal liability under British law cannot be subject to limitation by insurance or by signed declaration when you sign up to go on the track. No contract in British law shall seek to limit or restrict liability for death or personal injury. Therefore if you injure someone your insurer will not have caused that injury so they won't pay and your signing onto the track will not help you either. The judiciary will decide your fate.

I believe it is true that the insurance you have on track is there to help you put your car back together without financial loss. Any limitation on third party liability must be subject to the contract signed at the track. Best to read what you sign. Different track may have different contracts.

[crbox]

cwk said:

I'm insured through Aon and pay a premium of 1% of the car's value per track day for cover. As far as I remember, the policy specifically excludes "participant to participant" incidents. I can check the policy over the weekend and let you know for sure on Monday, if you like. HTH Charles

If that the case - why bother. The chances of spinning off and damaging your car to excess of 1 % of the value, must be relatively small.
For example, in a 30K Carrera, you would pay £3K for 10 track days right. In the last 10 Track days, have you suffered over £3K's worth of damage, that didn't involve another car.
I (Historic) Hillclimb and Rally.
My exp. of AON was that they were about the most expensive I received quotes from.
I bet if you look there a whopping excess also - bet its about £250!

[cwk]

crbox said:

cwk said: I'm insured through Aon and pay a premium of 1% of the car's value per track day for cover. As far as I remember, the policy specifically excludes "participant to participant" incidents. I can check the policy over the weekend and let you know for sure on Monday, if you like. HTH Charles If that the case - why bother. The chances of spinning off and damaging your car to excess of 1 % of the value, must be relatively small. For example, in a 30K Carrera, you would pay £3K for 10 track days right. In the last 10 Track days, have you suffered over £3K's worth of damage, that didn't involve another car. I (Historic) Hillclimb and Rally. My exp. of AON was that they were about the most expensive I received quotes from. I bet if you look there a whopping excess also - bet its about £250!

Hi Mike - nice Healey. Looks like a lot of fun!

D'oh! I meant 0.1% so using your example, it's £30per day / £300p.a. Plus the IPT, of course. From memory, the excess is a hefty 10% of insured value

You pays your money and you takes your choice but I'm a cautious kind of guy and am happy to cough up.

I really love my car and have tried (and managed!) to keep it out of the barriers in my five years of ownership, but the peace of mind is priceless.

Charles

[fergus]

crbox said:

If that the case - why bother. The chances of spinning off and damaging your car to excess of 1 % of the value, must be relatively small. For example, in a 30K Carrera, you would pay £3K for 10 track days right. In the last 10 Track days, have you suffered over £3K's worth of damage, that didn't involve another car. I (Historic) Hillclimb and Rally. My exp. of AON was that they were about the most expensive I received quotes from. I bet if you look there a whopping excess also - bet its about £250!

However, all you have to do in your £30k porsche is slightly overcook a bend, hit wet gras then spin into the armco, doing 10k of bodywork damage, requiring a rejig and repaint, etc. Insurance is only there to cover unexpected events at the end of the day. You could say why bother paying contents insurance, as you've never had your house burn down in the last 10 years, etc, etc. I agree that the track cover provided (often at a cost) is there for 1st party damage only.

With regard to the 3rd party liability, I think this is a very grey area, because although most t/day organisers ask you to sign some form of 'disclaimer' absolving them of any liability from injury claims, where does this stand under UK law, as mentioned in a previous post? Or are they perceived to be like verbal contracts, i.e. "not worth the paper they're written on" ?

Is it made explicitly clear, and is there any legal clarification that can be offered to ensure that all track activity is undertaken at the sole risk of the driver? But then again, if a t/day operator is negligent, which then leads to an accident, where would people stand then - esp if there was personal injury involved? Also, the 'disclaimers' are often worded to 'protect' the organiser, not absolve responsibility between participants. I could be wrong here, but that's the way I always read them...

Do they generally believe that their disclaimers absolve them from negligence based claims?

To the best of my knowledge there is just such a case progressing at the moment. (I'm not going to mention any names of the parties involved on the forum.)

All interesting stuff for those who use tracks on a regular basis and surely food for thought?

PS - out of interest, if someone colided with you on a t/day and it was clearly not your fault, but you had t/day cover, do people generally feel you would be able to make a claim to put right the damaged caused (against your insurer, not the person who caused the damage)?

[stuartcmorrison]

In my experience it's easy to spot the idiots, so spot ‘em early, steer clear of ‘em, drive within your limits & have a great day out.

No one is forced to do a track day, anyone really concerned with laying blame or extracting compensation should stay at home & take up knitting… ah, but then you could stab yourself with the needle, damn, best just stay in bed then.