Discussion
What sort of helmet do you recommend for track days?
I plan on doing a couple a year, the car is my only road car, a 944 turbo, so I'll be snug inside a pretty normal car. Nothing too crazy. I'm also not looking spend more than is 'neccessary'.
What features do you think I should look for? Full-face? Open face? Any particular construction? What sort of money should I spend (I'd prefer not much more than £200)?
I plan on doing a couple a year, the car is my only road car, a 944 turbo, so I'll be snug inside a pretty normal car. Nothing too crazy. I'm also not looking spend more than is 'neccessary'.
What features do you think I should look for? Full-face? Open face? Any particular construction? What sort of money should I spend (I'd prefer not much more than £200)?
Spend as much as your head is worth 
General consensus is that open face is a bad idea when you smack your teeth on the steering wheel, so I went for full face.
Personally I bought a last season bike helmet with the Gold sticker and bsi kite mark. It cost me £100 due to it being last years model (original price £300). I did use to have a £60 bike helmet that had all the pass marks, but it was very heavy. I dropped it, so that was that, and I went for something a lot lighter this time.
General consensus is that open face is a bad idea when you smack your teeth on the steering wheel, so I went for full face.
Personally I bought a last season bike helmet with the Gold sticker and bsi kite mark. It cost me £100 due to it being last years model (original price £300). I did use to have a £60 bike helmet that had all the pass marks, but it was very heavy. I dropped it, so that was that, and I went for something a lot lighter this time.
You can get an ACU gold labelled motorcycle helmet for under £100 and they are just as good as a car helmet. The visor aperture is wider so you peripheral vision is not obscured, otherwise the safety standards are equal.
Make sure you get a full face one. Chins and steering wheels should not mix...
Make sure you get a full face one. Chins and steering wheels should not mix...
phatgixer said:
You can get an ACU gold labelled motorcycle helmet for under £100 and they are just as good as a car helmet. The visor aperture is wider so you peripheral vision is not obscured, otherwise the safety standards are equal.
Make sure you get a full face one. Chins and steering wheels should not mix...
A lot of trackday organisers to not care what standard a helmet is to, but some insist on a MSA approved helmets ie Snell 2000 (US standard and I think Snell 95) or BS6658 type A or A/FR. Most bike ones are to European standards which are not acceptable.
BS6658 helmets are 0% vat rate were as Snell one aren’t and can not be used on the road.
BTW I’ve done about 30 trackdays and my crash helmet has been checked twice.
Mark
Recently spoke with a doctor whose main job is as a senior medical officer at FIA races, including Formula One.
His view was that, assuming that the driver is using proper harnesses and is in an enclosed car, the principal advantage of the full-face is to protect the driver's eyes from flying glass. This of course requires that the visor be closed.
When queried, he agreed that an open-face worn with proper protective goggles or glasses would be pretty much as good.
He also said that a HANS device is in his opinion unadvisable in a closed car with a narrow side-window aperature, such as a Porsche, particularly at a circuit like the Nordschleife where most impacts are side- or rear-, rather than frontal.
>> Edited by flemke on Sunday 12th December 23:14
His view was that, assuming that the driver is using proper harnesses and is in an enclosed car, the principal advantage of the full-face is to protect the driver's eyes from flying glass. This of course requires that the visor be closed.
When queried, he agreed that an open-face worn with proper protective goggles or glasses would be pretty much as good.
He also said that a HANS device is in his opinion unadvisable in a closed car with a narrow side-window aperature, such as a Porsche, particularly at a circuit like the Nordschleife where most impacts are side- or rear-, rather than frontal.
>> Edited by flemke on Sunday 12th December 23:14
flemke said:Did he explain why? I'm planning on buying one for next year's race season, and while I understand why they would do little in the case of a side or rear impact, I'm curious to know why he doesn't advise them in cars with narrow side windows.
He also said that a HANS device is in his opinion unadvisable in a closed car with a narrow side-window aperature, such as a Porsche, particularly at a circuit like the Nordschleife where most impacts are side- or rear-, rather than frontal.
If they cannot get the door open to extricate the driver, they have to pull him/her out through the window. This is more difficult to do with a rigid extension of the driver's backbone which, unlike the head, cannot be pushed down to clear the top of the aperture.
Furthermore, if the car has rolled sometimes the roof is crushed. Here again the head will be pushed down (chin to thorax) but the HANS remains in place as it is effectively a continuation of the seat back. As the roof is pushed down its soft metal can get pressed around the top edge of the HANS, which locks the HANS and the attached driver to the roof. In these cases they have to cut a hole through the roof to get the driver out.
flemke said:
Recently spoke with a doctor whose main job is as a senior medical officer at FIA races, including Formula One.
His view was that, assuming that the driver is using proper harnesses and is in an enclosed car, the principal advantage of the full-face is to protect the driver's eyes from flying glass. This of course requires that the visor be closed.
When queried, he agreed that an open-face worn with proper protective goggles or glasses would be pretty much as good.
I still prefer a full face helmet - I have seen the mess a steering wheel can make of your face.
flemke said:Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but in my experience of race marshals, they will do anything and everything to ensure that a driver is extricated safely, and the last thing they would do is pull them out the window, pushing their head down to clear the gap! In fact, if there is any hint of a neck/back injury, they will fit a spinal board to the driver, which will make extraction much more difficult than with a HANS. Maybe they do things differently at the 'Ring, but I'd hope not!
If they cannot get the door open to extricate the driver, they have to pull him/her out through the window. This is more difficult to do with a rigid extension of the driver's backbone which, unlike the head, cannot be pushed down to clear the top of the aperture.
Furthermore, if the car has rolled sometimes the roof is crushed. Here again the head will be pushed down (chin to thorax) but the HANS remains in place as it is effectively a continuation of the seat back. As the roof is pushed down its soft metal can get pressed around the top edge of the HANS, which locks the HANS and the attached driver to the roof. In these cases they have to cut a hole through the roof to get the driver out.
Also, I would have thought that if you're wearing full harness and a HANS, you'd be in a car with a cage anyway, so the crushed roof scenario wouldn't apply?
Even if you didn't have a cage, and the roof is pushed down sufficiently to press on the top edge of the HANS, then a) you're in trouble anyway as that's where your head would be, and b) they're most likely going to have to cut the roof anyway as there wouldn't be sufficient room left to climb out the window.
It sounds like a similar argument to the use of full roll cages, where some people claim they are dangerous as it takes longer to extract the driver. It maybe the case in some very rare circumstances, but in most situations the opposite is true.
Anyway - enough of the thread hijak
jacobyte said:
Recently spoke with a doctor whose main job is as a senior medical officer at FIA races, including Formula One.
His view was that, assuming that the driver is using proper harnesses and is in an enclosed car, the principal advantage of the full-face is to protect the driver's eyes from flying glass. This of course requires that the visor be closed.
When queried, he agreed that an open-face worn with proper protective goggles or glasses would be pretty much as good.
I still prefer a full face helmet - I have seen the mess a steering wheel can make of your face.
There was a guy killed in the Clio Cup racing recently at Thruxton
He was wearing a open face helmet, and they felt that a full face may have prevented him from dying.
Open face lids are great for communication and stopping yourself from over heating, but you only get one head, treat it with the respect its earnt!
The most important thing is that whichever type you buy, that it fits properly, and that you are comfotable in it.
I personally, didn't like using my Bike lid in the car on track days so bought a decent Sparco open face lid for car track days. I wasn't comfortable with the vision I had in the full face and also got really hot and was very pleased when I switched to open face, on both fronts.
The way I look at it is, if I'm driving a standard type road car, I've got side impact bars, crumple zones, and an airbag (sooner or later all that bloody weight will actually make itself useful ) and if I'm in my DRT, then I've got a full cage, a proper seat and harness. Either way, I don't see a huge benefit in wearing a full face on track, where I am driving in such a way where I am not expecting to crash, if at all possible (unlike proper racing, where to be competitive, it's quite likely at some point).
Matt
I personally, didn't like using my Bike lid in the car on track days so bought a decent Sparco open face lid for car track days. I wasn't comfortable with the vision I had in the full face and also got really hot and was very pleased when I switched to open face, on both fronts.
The way I look at it is, if I'm driving a standard type road car, I've got side impact bars, crumple zones, and an airbag (sooner or later all that bloody weight will actually make itself useful
) and if I'm in my DRT, then I've got a full cage, a proper seat and harness. Either way, I don't see a huge benefit in wearing a full face on track, where I am driving in such a way where I am not expecting to crash, if at all possible (unlike proper racing, where to be competitive, it's quite likely at some point). Matt
atom290 said:
There was a guy killed in the Clio Cup racing recently at Thruxton
He was wearing a open face helmet, and they felt that a full face may have prevented him from dying.
Surely he had a full harness on in an FIA approved well located seat? The clio cup race cars also have welded in roll cages. Curious as to how a full face helmet may have saved him here, if the injuries were severe enough to do that much damage to his head? Some of the WRC drivers use open face lids..... Some however, choose to use full face lids.
Does it fit?
Is it comfortable?
Is it certified to the correct standards (BSI/EU/SNELL)?
If it's only for trackdays, it doen't need to be RACMSA compliant or even be a dedicated car lid (motorbike lids typically aren't fireproof and have wider visor apertures being their biggest differences).
Your head. Your decision.
Ok for those of you doubters heres some facts about wearing an open face lid and why you should'nt waste your money. Baring in mind these are all full spec race cars not road cars with soft seats, air bags and a proxy diagonal seat belt.
Fact 1. Will Hoy (if my memory serves me) BTCC BMW M3 Oulton Park, hits wall wearing a Bell Mag 4 Open face lid (one of the best) splits nose open on impact with steering wheel.
Fact 2. Eugene O'Brien BTCC Peugeot 405 hits wall on approach to Chicane at Thruxton, Simpson open face lid. Head hits steering wheel, lots of blood and concussion.
Fact 3. Me Renault 5 Turbo Cup, hits wall at Shaws hairpin Mallory Park. Arai GP Jet open face (pop off peak best option on an open face). Peak ripped off on steering wheel on impact saving my nose from re-designing. I strapped myself into the car a few days later without loosening the belts first, in disbelief at how a top quality 6 point harness could let me move that far forward and it would'nt, only the facts of the accident prove how much we move. Another 5/10 miles an hour and could it have been my face in the wheel? I wear full face now for any fast driving.
Fact 4. A Club driver in a Rover 216GTi at Castle Combe, Sparco Open face. Hits wall, helmet exits through side window on first impact.
There are others but I think you get the jist. All the above helmets are quality items but by their very nature are flawed. The job of a helmet is nothing more than to protect your health in a violent situation, its not there just to qualify you to go on track.
You pays your money, you takes your chance!
Fact 1. Will Hoy (if my memory serves me) BTCC BMW M3 Oulton Park, hits wall wearing a Bell Mag 4 Open face lid (one of the best) splits nose open on impact with steering wheel.
Fact 2. Eugene O'Brien BTCC Peugeot 405 hits wall on approach to Chicane at Thruxton, Simpson open face lid. Head hits steering wheel, lots of blood and concussion.
Fact 3. Me Renault 5 Turbo Cup, hits wall at Shaws hairpin Mallory Park. Arai GP Jet open face (pop off peak best option on an open face). Peak ripped off on steering wheel on impact saving my nose from re-designing. I strapped myself into the car a few days later without loosening the belts first, in disbelief at how a top quality 6 point harness could let me move that far forward and it would'nt, only the facts of the accident prove how much we move. Another 5/10 miles an hour and could it have been my face in the wheel? I wear full face now for any fast driving.
Fact 4. A Club driver in a Rover 216GTi at Castle Combe, Sparco Open face. Hits wall, helmet exits through side window on first impact.
There are others but I think you get the jist. All the above helmets are quality items but by their very nature are flawed. The job of a helmet is nothing more than to protect your health in a violent situation, its not there just to qualify you to go on track.
You pays your money, you takes your chance!
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff