Epiphany - What have I been doing all these years
Discussion
I went along to Donington for my first track day on Sunday. What an amazing experience! The last time I experienced a similar ‘Buzz’ was back in 1990 on my KDX200. I thought those days where gone.
Epiphany is possibly too strong a word but the experience has answered a number of nagging issues that have been growing over the years. I currently drive a Cerbera and although it is a quick car I consider it very flawed when I experience the crashes and bangs of normal road driving, coupled with the tramlining and unpredictability (even with Nitrons) when dealing with an uneven surface. I have always considered this the price I have to pay for the compromise between handling, performance and comfort.
So I take the Cerbera to Donington and suddenly it appears to make allot of sense. The rattley AJP8 sounds great between 5 – 7k and the smooth surface compliments the stiff suspension. Then I start chatting to the guy in the next garage who’s little Caterfield type car costs a fraction of mine, is just as quick and handles a dam site better. It also costs bugger all to maintain (relatively) and costs far less to straighten up after he hits the barrier or ends up in the kitty litter. Hmmmm, I’m starting to smell another compromise from my ‘Sports Car’ at this point.
So I was driving home feeling very content with my first track experience. For the first time in sports car ownership I’m not cursing at the fact that the poor road conditions are stopping me from ‘enjoying’ my car. Suddenly I wish I had some luxo barge to waft me back home with minimal fuss! I also realised that I was no longer paranoid about getting those extra 3 points, and who I was going to ‘collect’ when honing around the next B road bend.
So my Cerbera is still up for sale. But instead of substituting it for another ‘Sports Car’, I’m going to buy a Misti L200, a trailer and some kind of Westeram to spend my evening’s spannering away with. I can do all this through the sale of my Cerbera and have 1 trackday a month for far less than I currently pay for the pleasure of paranoia and frustration.
Have I been mad for all these years?
Sorry for the rant!
Rob
Epiphany is possibly too strong a word but the experience has answered a number of nagging issues that have been growing over the years. I currently drive a Cerbera and although it is a quick car I consider it very flawed when I experience the crashes and bangs of normal road driving, coupled with the tramlining and unpredictability (even with Nitrons) when dealing with an uneven surface. I have always considered this the price I have to pay for the compromise between handling, performance and comfort.
So I take the Cerbera to Donington and suddenly it appears to make allot of sense. The rattley AJP8 sounds great between 5 – 7k and the smooth surface compliments the stiff suspension. Then I start chatting to the guy in the next garage who’s little Caterfield type car costs a fraction of mine, is just as quick and handles a dam site better. It also costs bugger all to maintain (relatively) and costs far less to straighten up after he hits the barrier or ends up in the kitty litter. Hmmmm, I’m starting to smell another compromise from my ‘Sports Car’ at this point.
So I was driving home feeling very content with my first track experience. For the first time in sports car ownership I’m not cursing at the fact that the poor road conditions are stopping me from ‘enjoying’ my car. Suddenly I wish I had some luxo barge to waft me back home with minimal fuss! I also realised that I was no longer paranoid about getting those extra 3 points, and who I was going to ‘collect’ when honing around the next B road bend.
So my Cerbera is still up for sale. But instead of substituting it for another ‘Sports Car’, I’m going to buy a Misti L200, a trailer and some kind of Westeram to spend my evening’s spannering away with. I can do all this through the sale of my Cerbera and have 1 trackday a month for far less than I currently pay for the pleasure of paranoia and frustration.
Have I been mad for all these years?
Sorry for the rant!
Rob
I've sort-of had a similar experience, having just done the Nordschleife and Spa in a weekend... I'm seriously considering getting a Caterfield for this, as I want to really learn how to track properly.
The problem at the moment is finding somewhere to keep it! And also I'm in no way going to lose the Esprit... Practical cars? Pah!
The problem at the moment is finding somewhere to keep it! And also I'm in no way going to lose the Esprit... Practical cars? Pah!
Glad to hear you have a new passion, I have been doing them for a couple of years, 10 this year with one more to go, and I still can't sleep the night before. It's like Christmas Eve when I was 8 every time.
However, I also run a Cerb for the track, which to be honest is set up with this as its primary purpose (no air con, uprated shocks, brakes etc..) and I find it absolutely fantastic. There are few road cars that can exceed 150 mph on the straight and I find the handling very progressive. 360 bhp in 1000kg.
Hire a Caterfield first before you make the leap. Cost you about £450. They are great at corners and fantastic fun but you have to get to the expensive end to get back to the power "Megab" type performance that can push them through the air to keep up on tracks with long straights. I have friends who bought them and have spent another fortune squeezing more horses out of them all of whom would have started at the higher end in hind-sight.
I have always been tired going home after a track-day, whatever car old or new. Lots of concentration on the day. However the most fun on the way home comes from a Mars Bar, can of Red Bull and blat home in the Cerb with the windows open.
I don't fancy a trailer journey for a few hours!
However, I also run a Cerb for the track, which to be honest is set up with this as its primary purpose (no air con, uprated shocks, brakes etc..) and I find it absolutely fantastic. There are few road cars that can exceed 150 mph on the straight and I find the handling very progressive. 360 bhp in 1000kg.
Hire a Caterfield first before you make the leap. Cost you about £450. They are great at corners and fantastic fun but you have to get to the expensive end to get back to the power "Megab" type performance that can push them through the air to keep up on tracks with long straights. I have friends who bought them and have spent another fortune squeezing more horses out of them all of whom would have started at the higher end in hind-sight.
I have always been tired going home after a track-day, whatever car old or new. Lots of concentration on the day. However the most fun on the way home comes from a Mars Bar, can of Red Bull and blat home in the Cerb with the windows open.
I don't fancy a trailer journey for a few hours! Thank for the input JonnyW!
I have been thinking about the kind of car to get. I was thinking about an oldish rear wheel drive turbo car, perhaps a stripped out cosworth. Then I think about the weight and how this is going to cost in tyres, brakes and handling etc. There's also the added complexity / cost of a turbo engine. On the other hand there are plenty of 200BHP 2L Westerams out there (QED or Duratec). I would imagine that 200BHP in a 600kg car is quick enough but then again I stand to be corrected! I understand that these things produce a lot of drag? On the other hand I'm not sure if I would be comfortable with speed over 110 -120 in a Westfield type car. Certainly felt hairy enough in the Cerbera!
Cheers,
Rob
I have been thinking about the kind of car to get. I was thinking about an oldish rear wheel drive turbo car, perhaps a stripped out cosworth. Then I think about the weight and how this is going to cost in tyres, brakes and handling etc. There's also the added complexity / cost of a turbo engine. On the other hand there are plenty of 200BHP 2L Westerams out there (QED or Duratec). I would imagine that 200BHP in a 600kg car is quick enough but then again I stand to be corrected! I understand that these things produce a lot of drag? On the other hand I'm not sure if I would be comfortable with speed over 110 -120 in a Westfield type car. Certainly felt hairy enough in the Cerbera!
Cheers,
Rob
rjben said:Aim for a Caterham Superlight R/R400 and you're talking more like 200bhp in a 500Kg package.
I would imagine that 200BHP in a 600kg car is quick enough but then again I stand to be corrected! I understand that these things produce a lot of drag? On the other hand I'm not sure if I would be comfortable with speed over 110 -120 in a Westfield type car. Certainly felt hairy enough in the Cerbera!
And yes, they're quick - both in a straight line and around the corners. 
If you get an aeroscreen you should be good for about 140mph
. Don't worry, you do get used to it. 
Jeremy,
I don't think I could afford an R400. I'll be in the market for a < 10k car, possibly not road legal. With this in mind I have a couple of questions....
Should I really try and go for a road legal car? I can see the advantage when trying out mods / repairs away from the track but are there any advantages?
Also, if I don't have normal road car insurance do I need to get some kind of indemnity insurance?
Finally, I've always been concerned about not having a roof / windows. What happens in a role? I'm not referring to crushing as it will have a roll cage but what about flaying arms outside the cage? I've not heard any horror stories but it seems likely?
Cheers,
Rob
I don't think I could afford an R400. I'll be in the market for a < 10k car, possibly not road legal. With this in mind I have a couple of questions....
Should I really try and go for a road legal car? I can see the advantage when trying out mods / repairs away from the track but are there any advantages?
Also, if I don't have normal road car insurance do I need to get some kind of indemnity insurance?
Finally, I've always been concerned about not having a roof / windows. What happens in a role? I'm not referring to crushing as it will have a roll cage but what about flaying arms outside the cage? I've not heard any horror stories but it seems likely?
Cheers,
Rob
rjben said:The main advantages in having a road legal car are ones of convenience: it is much easier to move the car without having to trailer it everywhere (e.g. filling with fuel, washing, testing etc.). It can also be great fun to go for a blat down country lanes - a firm favourite with the passengers.
Should I really try and go for a road legal car? I can see the advantage when trying out mods / repairs away from the track but are there any advantages?
The downsides of having a road legal car are mainly cost: road tax, insurance, MOT etc.
rjben said:I'm not sure - you might at least want to consider theft insurance to protect your investment.
Also, if I don't have normal road car insurance do I need to get some kind of indemnity insurance?
rjben said:Not something that I've been aware of, worried about nor heard of happening. There are doors available if it is a big concern (either half or full doors - though you need a full windscreen for the full doors).
Finally, I've always been concerned about not having a roof / windows. What happens in a role? I'm not referring to crushing as it will have a roll cage but what about flaying arms outside the cage? I've not heard any horror stories but it seems likely?
Best bet is to get to your local Lotus Seven Club (www.lotus7club.co.uk/) meeting and have a chat to the owners; they're usually more than happy to let you have a look around the cars and offer advice. You'll also find lots of advice on BlatChat.
If you are really concerned about arms flailing in the event of a role then you can buy a pair of arm restraints for about £30.
Although there are faster cars in a straight line the speed around the bends, late braking and acceleration with a Caterham will see just about any normal car off ( Radicals and the like excluded)
Although there are faster cars in a straight line the speed around the bends, late braking and acceleration with a Caterham will see just about any normal car off ( Radicals and the like excluded)
rob
funnily enough I did the same as you - sold the Tuscan and now have a Audi S4 estate to tow the MK Indy.
Chipped the S4 so its good for 165mph (with 20 cases of wine on the way back from france) and chipped in with a few mates (Beemer) to buy the MK Indy on ebay £4800 for a Blackbird Powered MK (180hp wighing 460kg) - set of slicks and a trailer in the price. The clutch needs replacing at a staggering cost of £89
The MK is quicker around the track than the Tuscan - a Noble M12 couldnt keep up with the MK!
Given the S4 was £11k and the share of the Indy was £1600 - ive got as more fun for half the cost - result
forgot to mention we could SVA the car but tow it on a dolly as its far more comfortable than driving it everywhere
>> Edited by all black on Friday 19th November 17:14
funnily enough I did the same as you - sold the Tuscan and now have a Audi S4 estate to tow the MK Indy.
Chipped the S4 so its good for 165mph (with 20 cases of wine on the way back from france) and chipped in with a few mates (Beemer) to buy the MK Indy on ebay £4800 for a Blackbird Powered MK (180hp wighing 460kg) - set of slicks and a trailer in the price. The clutch needs replacing at a staggering cost of £89
The MK is quicker around the track than the Tuscan - a Noble M12 couldnt keep up with the MK!
Given the S4 was £11k and the share of the Indy was £1600 - ive got as more fun for half the cost - result
forgot to mention we could SVA the car but tow it on a dolly as its far more comfortable than driving it everywhere
>> Edited by all black on Friday 19th November 17:14
I spent many a year tracking my road cars including GT-Rs and Ferraris and always looked down at the "kit cars".
But since my well-publicised racing debut in the Caterham Academy last year and Roadsport B this year I now understand the amazing capability of lightweight, good handling cars like the Caterham.
(and to be honest only a Radical is significantly faster)
Unfortunately, due to me becoming a full-time, hence poor, motoring journo, I am having to sell the Caterham and if you sell the Cerbera I think it would make an ideal track car and when you're ready and feel the urge it is eligible to enter several race series as it is.
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=31607&s=39
But since my well-publicised racing debut in the Caterham Academy last year and Roadsport B this year I now understand the amazing capability of lightweight, good handling cars like the Caterham.
(and to be honest only a Radical is significantly faster)
Unfortunately, due to me becoming a full-time, hence poor, motoring journo, I am having to sell the Caterham and if you sell the Cerbera I think it would make an ideal track car and when you're ready and feel the urge it is eligible to enter several race series as it is.
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=31607&s=39
I’ve had the “track car” vs “road car” debate going on in my head; here are some thoughts/questions (just to cloud matters even more).
If you’re in an ultra-fast Radical etc, do you have to spend a lot of time on the brakes due to slower traffic?
Whereas, borrow your moms Micra & spend all day on full throttle!
When a full body-kitted, loud & shiny GTI thingie comes past you on the road in your luxo barge, wouldn’t you wish you were back in your TVR? (disclaimer…the Queens Highway is not race track)
My mate is an autograss racer; he’s always spannering away (like 5 nights a week & weekends) just to get 30 minutes of racing every other Sunday, that’s a maximum, assuming his spannering has worked.
My other mate has grown out of spannering, so his race prepped 205 1.9 has spent 9 months sitting on the trailer, on the drive waiting for someone else to change the engine… great season! (Incidentally, he’s on his third Pro-Drive Impreza STi bloody rocket ship, but since rolling his first one on a track day at Mallory a few years ago he doesn’t use road cars. Fortunately it was before insurance companies cottoned on to track days, they wrote it off & replaced it for him, surprisingly he’s not covered anymore)
I’ve just bought a Civic Type R (ok it’s no Porsche/TVR/Ferrari etc but £20k is a lot to me) & I want to have fun in it on a track day & use what I have learned about the car to make me a safer road driver. (Ok it’s feeble but it supports the argument for road cars… in my mind)
Judging from what I saw last week, the smiles on the faces of the guys in the 8-year-old standard Escort were as big as those of the 911 drivers.
The bottom line is that it’s great to see standard run-of-the-mill road cars on track with exotic road cars & out-and-out track cars, especially when the lesser car circulates faster.
Ok I could probably go on all night but I can sense your eyes shutting already & anyway I might change my mind after my debut track day at Donington on Sunday.
If you’re in an ultra-fast Radical etc, do you have to spend a lot of time on the brakes due to slower traffic?
Whereas, borrow your moms Micra & spend all day on full throttle!
When a full body-kitted, loud & shiny GTI thingie comes past you on the road in your luxo barge, wouldn’t you wish you were back in your TVR? (disclaimer…the Queens Highway is not race track)
My mate is an autograss racer; he’s always spannering away (like 5 nights a week & weekends) just to get 30 minutes of racing every other Sunday, that’s a maximum, assuming his spannering has worked.
My other mate has grown out of spannering, so his race prepped 205 1.9 has spent 9 months sitting on the trailer, on the drive waiting for someone else to change the engine… great season! (Incidentally, he’s on his third Pro-Drive Impreza STi bloody rocket ship, but since rolling his first one on a track day at Mallory a few years ago he doesn’t use road cars. Fortunately it was before insurance companies cottoned on to track days, they wrote it off & replaced it for him, surprisingly he’s not covered anymore)
I’ve just bought a Civic Type R (ok it’s no Porsche/TVR/Ferrari etc but £20k is a lot to me) & I want to have fun in it on a track day & use what I have learned about the car to make me a safer road driver. (Ok it’s feeble but it supports the argument for road cars… in my mind)
Judging from what I saw last week, the smiles on the faces of the guys in the 8-year-old standard Escort were as big as those of the 911 drivers.
The bottom line is that it’s great to see standard run-of-the-mill road cars on track with exotic road cars & out-and-out track cars, especially when the lesser car circulates faster.
Ok I could probably go on all night but I can sense your eyes shutting already & anyway I might change my mind after my debut track day at Donington on Sunday.
stuartcmorrison said:Another ex-Cerbera owner here... again it had Nitrons & ridiculous brakes etc., but a go in the same old yellow SLR changed my mind!
I’ve had the “track car” vs “road car” debate going on in my head; here are some thoughts/questions (just to cloud matters even more).
If you’re in an ultra-fast Radical etc, do you have to spend a lot of time on the brakes due to slower traffic?
With a Radical, you don't spend time on the brakes, rather you spend time off the throttle. The cornering speed is so much faster than anything else that you are ready to overtake come the next straight. It does depend on people checking their mirrors, and while it can occasionally be frustrating, people usually realise how fast they are quite quickly. You will generally lap other cars at least once in a session, and if you care about having a clear lap then I wouldn't buy one. You generally get to push a few corners per lap, and hopefully the incredible speed there makes up for it.
The major advantage is the fact it's built for racing, and can therefore take the abuse. Replacement parts arrive next day service, and it's easy to work on. With the Cerbera there was constant round trips to fix minor things.
Oh, and trailering home in comfort with working aircon is fantastically relaxing contrast
For those of you with the older radicals eg clubsports or prosports these are now eligible for the 750MC series. If you have done a few track days and wonder what racing would be like then there is no better club than the 750MC to start racing with IMHO.
They do have a website www.750mc.co.uk
They do have a website www.750mc.co.uk
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