Old Cars & Oil leaks
Discussion
What is the ruling on old cars and tell tale signs of oil on the sump rather than dripping oil leaks?
The magnitude I'm writing about is between the tell tale sign of a dirty sump and a maximum of one or two drips on the garage floor.
Just been sent home from a track day for the above with a 40 year old track sorted Jaguar.
(someone else's car had dripped in the pitlane but the marshall looked under mine as I was parked up close to the vacinity).
I did contest a little but the marshalls have a responsibility and they wouldn't take the chance of me leaking. I understand but a bit difficult to argue against, drove around the paddock, still no drips but no persuading.
Got home left the car in the garage for 30 minutes, no drips, even after a long sit on the M25 and a 150 mile drive, nothing gone from the dip stick line!
The thing is full of "old fashioned" technology, rope seals etc. The engine was rebuilt a few years back and I am constantly changing seals and tightening things but the technology when it was designed inevitably leads to the odd smudge.
I think I am going to really struggle to get it as oil tight as a modern engine even by rebuilding it, again, can I get away with fixing a tray under the engine and box?
Expensive day the experience of dissapointment and frustration I never want to repeat. £200 for the track day, 300 miles there and back at 11 mpg on Optimax and additive! £300 pound!
The magnitude I'm writing about is between the tell tale sign of a dirty sump and a maximum of one or two drips on the garage floor.
Just been sent home from a track day for the above with a 40 year old track sorted Jaguar.
(someone else's car had dripped in the pitlane but the marshall looked under mine as I was parked up close to the vacinity). I did contest a little but the marshalls have a responsibility and they wouldn't take the chance of me leaking. I understand but a bit difficult to argue against, drove around the paddock, still no drips but no persuading.
Got home left the car in the garage for 30 minutes, no drips, even after a long sit on the M25 and a 150 mile drive, nothing gone from the dip stick line!
The thing is full of "old fashioned" technology, rope seals etc. The engine was rebuilt a few years back and I am constantly changing seals and tightening things but the technology when it was designed inevitably leads to the odd smudge.
I think I am going to really struggle to get it as oil tight as a modern engine even by rebuilding it, again, can I get away with fixing a tray under the engine and box?
Expensive day the experience of dissapointment and frustration I never want to repeat. £200 for the track day, 300 miles there and back at 11 mpg on Optimax and additive! £300 pound!
As I understand it, you were ejected from the track by a single judge/jury/executioner without even partial refund?
That is most unfair.
No scrutineering commitee to inspect car for say 15min engine off, and 5 min of idle?
Sounds like tyranny.
I wonder what legal advice would be, after all the procedure was not scientific.
my commiserations.
I suppose a lesson learned would be to power wash the block before an event.
m
That is most unfair.
No scrutineering commitee to inspect car for say 15min engine off, and 5 min of idle?
Sounds like tyranny.
I wonder what legal advice would be, after all the procedure was not scientific.
my commiserations.
I suppose a lesson learned would be to power wash the block before an event.
m
weed said:The terms and conditions that you sign up for on a track day pretty much give you no rights whatsoever. Therefore the legal advice would probably be
As I understand it, you were ejected from the track by a single judge/jury/executioner without even partial refund?
That is most unfair.
No scrutineering commitee to inspect car for say 15min engine off, and 5 min of idle?
Sounds like tyranny.
I wonder what legal advice would be, after all the procedure was not scientific.
my commiserations.
I suppose a lesson learned would be to power wash the block before an event.
m
. Sounds harsh though. I get a similar problem on the race car. I often have a couple of drips on the sump after driving home - never gets as far as the floor of the van though so not too bad - I just put it down to hitting curbs far too hard
Obviously the first thing to do is to isolate the problem - to see if it is an easy fix. Clean everything down so you can see the leak - my transporter van (which has a much worse leak) was diagnosed by smearing the underside of the oily bits with flour after a steam clean
. Unfortunately, I didn't like the diagnostics, so will be waiting until the end of the season before getting it fixed. If you just have a general leaking of all the seals then you will have a bit of a problem. If it is just one point though, you can address the cause and be lilly white in the eyes of any scrutineer.
Richard/Weed,
Powerwashing the block is a definite now, but the problem with the Jag block is the number of seals and the material they are made from,I'm sure one is a pig's sphinkter!
Also the spec of the engine which has an upgraded oil system to ensure I'm fully lubricated. PSI of between 30 and 50 when hot as opposed to 20 and 40 for standard.
Engine & gearbox out is a really horrible job on the E-type and I will have to drop the crank to get another "rope seal" in, which will saturate and weap as it is designed to! All the issues of taking a crank down etc.....
I've spoken to some Aston Martin friends and they have the same issue.
Somedays your lucky and somedays....................
Richard I didn't stay at Brands last week, did you get out in the last race?
Powerwashing the block is a definite now, but the problem with the Jag block is the number of seals and the material they are made from,I'm sure one is a pig's sphinkter!
Also the spec of the engine which has an upgraded oil system to ensure I'm fully lubricated. PSI of between 30 and 50 when hot as opposed to 20 and 40 for standard. Engine & gearbox out is a really horrible job on the E-type and I will have to drop the crank to get another "rope seal" in, which will saturate and weap as it is designed to! All the issues of taking a crank down etc.....
I've spoken to some Aston Martin friends and they have the same issue.
Somedays your lucky and somedays....................
Richard I didn't stay at Brands last week, did you get out in the last race?
( that's an in-joke BTW) 
JonnyW said:Well yes - and no. Did the first lap - then had another long safety car period at which point I started to lose brake pressure, so called it a day.
Richard I didn't stay at Brands last week, did you get out in the last race?
Total disaster of a weekend - three DNF's
. Sounds like you are just going to have to put the track day down to experience and hope it doesn't happen again. Have you chanced a letter to the organisers saying that you understand why the investigation was made, but felt that the results of the investigation were unfairly interpreted etc. They may see their way to giving you a goodwill refund. Still doesn't make up for a day of lost track time though
. Rich
Organiser has been fantastic and tried his best on the day and has since been in contact.
Without going in to any details and mentioning any names, I put it down to an individual who was basically having a bad day and passed it on to me!
It is a track I've used before and had no problems.
I'll be back but in the Cerbera.
Richard, sorry about your DNF, long way to go for a few laps behind a safety car!
Without going in to any details and mentioning any names, I put it down to an individual who was basically having a bad day and passed it on to me!
It is a track I've used before and had no problems.
I'll be back but in the Cerbera.
Richard, sorry about your DNF, long way to go for a few laps behind a safety car!
Organiser has been fantastic and tried his best on the day and has since been in contact.
Without going in to any details and mentioning any names, I put it down to an individual who was basically having a bad day and passed it on to me!
It is a track I've used before and had no problems.
I'll be back but in the Cerbera.
Richard, sorry about your DNF, long way to go for a few laps behind a safety car!
Without going in to any details and mentioning any names, I put it down to an individual who was basically having a bad day and passed it on to me!
It is a track I've used before and had no problems.
I'll be back but in the Cerbera.
Richard, sorry about your DNF, long way to go for a few laps behind a safety car!
JonnyW said:
Richard/Weed,
Powerwashing the block is a definite now, but the problem with the Jag block is the number of seals and the material they are made from,I'm sure one is a pig's sphinkter!
Engine & gearbox out is a really horrible job on the E-type and I will have to drop the crank to get another "rope seal" in, which will saturate and weap as it is designed to! All the issues of taking a crank down etc.....
I've spoken to some Aston Martin friends and they have the same issue.
Somedays your lucky and somedays....................
Richard I didn't stay at Brands last week, did you get out in the last race?
Hi John,
I think some of these marshalls are traffic wardens in real life; I would definitely be looking for my money back.
I see your E is a '67 so it might have the later crank and block; they changed the 4.2 engine around this time.
You can tell by looking at the outer surface of the block which is smooth on the early engines but webbed on the later ones.
The later rear oil seal can be machined to take a lip seal, which instantly solves your problem.
Do you know if a sizing tool was used to fit the new rope seal before installing the crank, coz if you don't do this it will leak?
Another source of leakage is fitting the seal housing on to the block dry; you MUST use a high quality silicone sealer.
I'll try and find out some info for you about oil seal suppliers if you like.
Unfortunately it does involve an engine strip but at least you would have the consolation of knowing it would be the last.
Hope this helps,
James.
i was sent away from scrutineering at coombe once.
mind it was in a cosworth that was absolutely dripping with oil as it was an oil breathing shed.
so i went round to the local garage and gave the guy a pub voucher and he let me use his steam cleaner on the messy lump.
i then diverted all the engine breathers into a pop bottle.
was let on track although the marshal did come to see me a couple of times throughout the day to check for drips(i had emptied the bottle each time i saw him )
i now steam the bottom of any car i track as i tend to have fords which leak even when empty
mind it was in a cosworth that was absolutely dripping with oil as it was an oil breathing shed.
so i went round to the local garage and gave the guy a pub voucher and he let me use his steam cleaner on the messy lump.
i then diverted all the engine breathers into a pop bottle.
was let on track although the marshal did come to see me a couple of times throughout the day to check for drips(i had emptied the bottle each time i saw him )
i now steam the bottom of any car i track as i tend to have fords which leak even when empty
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