RE: Track-sense to launch track-day hire club
Wednesday 22nd September 2004
Track-sense to launch track-day hire club
Genuine, affordable track day car hire
Track-sense is to launch three new track-day services at the Autosport International Show in January 2005. Arguably the most exciting of the three is a track car club in a similar style to the Damon Hill P1 supercar club. Catering to an exclusive, members-only base, a fleet of track-prepared cars will be available for hire and, unlike most performance car hire, members will be free to choose their normal track day or even road use for that special Nürburgring or Le Mans pilgrimage.
Unlike other track day car hire operations, there will be no requirement to be accompanied by an instructor and members will tow or drive the cars themselves to the track day of their choosing. The club which initially will be Midlands-based will soon expand but will have a strict members to cars ratio.
The fleet will include track day specials such as offerings from Radical and Caterham as well as acknowledged track bred historics such as E30 M3s, Porsche 968 Club Sports and other typical track day toys such as the Lotus Exige. There will also be some unusual offerings and members will get a say in the composition of the fleet.
Other services offered by Track-sense will include very high quality class and track based tuition (PistonHeads will be running exclusive members-only courses) as well as a service that facilitates the hire of data loggers and the online interpretation of data files.
As soon as we have more details on this we’ll keep you informed. We will also be seeking a discount for PistonHeads members. The price? We hear it's yet to be confirmed but we’re told it will be a lot less than running your own track-toy for a season, which should make it good value for money.
When launched, Track-sense's upcoming Web site will provide more details.
Discussion
I will have done 8 days this year and my costs break down as follows:
Depreciation (older cars so less than norm)£1600
Petrol £1200
Brakes £600
Tyres £800
Fees £2000
General Upkeep and upgrades etc.. £3000 (could be lower but I like to continually improve)
Burgers and coffee £100
Take out the petrol, fees and burgers and my costs are about £6,000 per year. I do a lot of the work myself on the cars so I'd get time back, but I like doing that. So each session, full day 150 to 200 miles on track costs me "car wise" about £750.
and £400 in fees etc..
Problem I have costing this out is that this is what it has cost me, I've done a lot of work myself, I don't have corporate/employment/insurance costs and no mark-up. Wear and tear if it's not yours is also an issue. I recently did a track day with a client who sponsors a car in a racing series that shall remain nameless. I drove the tyres off of it for about 100 miles, everything was steaming/smoking when we came in including their racing drivers pants who was egging me on.
I hope it works out, but with depreciation of newer cars and a fund for the bending also required, I'm struggling to see how it will pay if compared with those who already track. But it may be more suitable for someone who hasn't already got a prepared car and doesn't have the wish or knowledge to fix things.
Are they then more likely to be novices and come off, red mist etc..
There are always those who like the convenience and don't want the hassle, just got to find and access that market.
Depreciation (older cars so less than norm)£1600
Petrol £1200
Brakes £600
Tyres £800
Fees £2000
General Upkeep and upgrades etc.. £3000 (could be lower but I like to continually improve)
Burgers and coffee £100
Take out the petrol, fees and burgers and my costs are about £6,000 per year. I do a lot of the work myself on the cars so I'd get time back, but I like doing that. So each session, full day 150 to 200 miles on track costs me "car wise" about £750.
and £400 in fees etc.. Problem I have costing this out is that this is what it has cost me, I've done a lot of work myself, I don't have corporate/employment/insurance costs and no mark-up. Wear and tear if it's not yours is also an issue. I recently did a track day with a client who sponsors a car in a racing series that shall remain nameless. I drove the tyres off of it for about 100 miles, everything was steaming/smoking when we came in including their racing drivers pants who was egging me on.
I hope it works out, but with depreciation of newer cars and a fund for the bending also required, I'm struggling to see how it will pay if compared with those who already track. But it may be more suitable for someone who hasn't already got a prepared car and doesn't have the wish or knowledge to fix things.
Are they then more likely to be novices and come off, red mist etc..
There are always those who like the convenience and don't want the hassle, just got to find and access that market.
Useful info Jonny and bears out the argument for not running your own track car unless you are very committed. The club will benefits from a dedicated engineer, decent buying power and far higher utilisation of the vehicles which in turn will bring down the unit cost for the members.
No track associated activity is ever going to be cheap but the principal benefit of the club based membership should be the ability to shelter members from depreciation, significantly reduce running costs and the commitments that are unavoidable e.g. trailer, unsurance, tax, storage, wife nagging you to sell and buy a property in the south of France etc as well as providing choice that would only otherwise be available if you're a 5ft tall pop star that wears funny hats.
Stephen
No track associated activity is ever going to be cheap but the principal benefit of the club based membership should be the ability to shelter members from depreciation, significantly reduce running costs and the commitments that are unavoidable e.g. trailer, unsurance, tax, storage, wife nagging you to sell and buy a property in the south of France etc as well as providing choice that would only otherwise be available if you're a 5ft tall pop star that wears funny hats.
Stephen
JonnyW said:
I will have done 8 days this year and my costs break down as follows:
Depreciation (older cars so less than norm)£1600
Petrol £1200
Brakes £600
Tyres £800
Fees £2000
General Upkeep and upgrades etc.. £3000 (could be lower but I like to continually improve)
Burgers and coffee £100
Cripes thats a lot of dosh, is that you tracking an E type?
Running track cars need not be even be a fraction of that cost.
iguana said:
I will have done 8 days this year and my costs break down as follows:
Depreciation (older cars so less than norm)£1600
Petrol £1200
Brakes £600
Tyres £800
Fees £2000
General Upkeep and upgrades etc.. £3000 (could be lower but I like to continually improve)
Burgers and coffee £100
Cripes thats a lot of dosh, is that you tracking an E type?
Running track cars need not be even be a fraction of that cost.
Yes, most of the costs are the E-type (double the Cerb), Cerb is pretty robust with normal TVR ownership costs which was getting it right when I got the car, sorting the brakes, new cams, exhasuts etc..
Problem with the E-type is that it is a 300bhp 37 year old (raced in the USA also and not best cared for before I got it)and when you trackday you want to go faster with more control. When I first took it out it was blistering on the straight and pedestrian on the corners (Derek Trotter's Van would have been a fair comparison). I've also found that Track Days are getting faster with more and more competitive track cars coming out. So to enjoy it and not be a constant victim/mirror watcher (I was remebering more track backward than forward) I've done the following and rember every action, more power or gs, has a reaction!
E-type list over past two years:
Upgraded brakes/twice £800 total
Upgrades to engine carbs & exhausts £3500
Oil cooler £400
Gearbox things & clutch £400
Wheels & Tyres £1500
Diff £500
Suspension £400
Loads of little bits that need replacing £1500
Welding back suspension supports to cope with the power and cornering.
New set of pads after every 200 miles on track
Wine for my mate Dave without whom it would be even more expensive ???
E-type does 8 mpg on track, Cerb gets about 12 mpg and thats sub 90 seconds for Goodwood pace.
I didn't factor all this in, seem to making a case for the club me thinks???
However, there is no better feeling than clawing my way up to the back of a badly driven GT2 in a 60s icon.
My wife decided to clean out my "office" area in the garage and filed £10,000 of bits and bills. So I am continually reminded of the expense!
Credit where it's due for tracking an E-type! There wont be one in the initial track-club fleet unfortunately and having seen the costs there would have to be a bit of a hike in the membership fee!
There will be a couple of options on membership which will basically be aligned to cater for people that probably want to do say 4-6 days a year and people that want to do 8-12.
Given that it's about £500 to hire a Superlight for the day does anyone have any views on what sort of membership fee would be reasonable?
There will be a couple of options on membership which will basically be aligned to cater for people that probably want to do say 4-6 days a year and people that want to do 8-12.
Given that it's about £500 to hire a Superlight for the day does anyone have any views on what sort of membership fee would be reasonable?
sdd said:
Credit where it's due for tracking an E-type! There wont be one in the initial track-club fleet unfortunately and having seen the costs there would have to be a bit of a hike in the membership fee!
There will be a couple of options on membership which will basically be aligned to cater for people that probably want to do say 4-6 days a year and people that want to do 8-12.
Given that it's about £500 to hire a Superlight for the day does anyone have any views on what sort of membership fee would be reasonable?
OOps! Forgot to paste reply fist time.
Having had a think and chat with other trackday pals there are two markets:
Those that are newish to it and want to have a go in something more predictable, the Caterhams etc..
Those who want something different from their own car or the type of vehicle that will draw you away.
Caterfields etc. as you say are around the £500 mark
Porsches, Nobles etc.. are £1000 plus not including VAT.
Maybe you can cut your membership differently on a point system for cost of puting the car on the track.
100 points a year, 20 points for a race preped GT3, 10 for a Caterham etc..
Difficult question to answer, I've been offered C-Type replicas for sub £500 up to Porsche Cup stuff beyond £1000?
>> Edited by JonnyW on Wednesday 29th September 11:10
If I'm reading correctly then yes, that's how it will be done. An internal currency for club members will be created i.e. points and these will be exchanged for car hire which will be different depending on the car, time of year and day of week.
i.e. if someone just wants to do a Caterham Superlight on a Wednesday in December they'll get lot's of use, on the other hand if they want the Exige on a Saturday in June it will work out more 'expensive'.
Website coming soon.
The first location is likely to be East Midlands based for easy access to Bedford, Donington, Silverstone, Mallory, Rockingham and Bruntingthorpe.
We will try and position future bases optimally to ensure they are sensible for as many tracks as possible and to give people a choice of where they collect from.
Prices should be available within the next four weeks.
Website will be live soon.
Stephen
We will try and position future bases optimally to ensure they are sensible for as many tracks as possible and to give people a choice of where they collect from.
Prices should be available within the next four weeks.
Website will be live soon.
Stephen
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