Jonathan Palmer - Motorsport Sensation - Bedford
Discussion
I've been offered a place on a corporate day at Jonathan Palmer's Motorsport Sensation
Has anyone been ?
Any stories or recomendations would be appreciated
Has anyone been ?
Any stories or recomendations would be appreciated
Do It!!!!!!
I've been 3 times now and have found it to be the absolute t*ts! (apart from the snorey 4x4 course of course)
Edited to elaborate....
The large run-off areas at bedford mean that they let you out in the cars with no speed or rev limits, which makes for great fun in the single seaters and a simply pant-wettingly good time in the JP1. The instructors are all very friendly and do a great job of getting you to push as hard as you can given the limited amount of time in each car.
My personal favourite is the caterhams tho'...
truly a great day out
p.s. I can come along to keep you company if you like
>> Edited by catretriever on Thursday 2nd September 15:17
I've been 3 times now and have found it to be the absolute t*ts! (apart from the snorey 4x4 course of course)
Edited to elaborate....
The large run-off areas at bedford mean that they let you out in the cars with no speed or rev limits, which makes for great fun in the single seaters and a simply pant-wettingly good time in the JP1. The instructors are all very friendly and do a great job of getting you to push as hard as you can given the limited amount of time in each car.
My personal favourite is the caterhams tho'...
truly a great day out
p.s. I can come along to keep you company if you like
>> Edited by catretriever on Thursday 2nd September 15:17
Have just done it again today - awesome (is that the most widely used word on this forum ?), particularly the Jaguar JP1 (about 400 bhp per tonne) which they run on 2 seperate sessions on different circuits.
You normally get 5 or 10 TIMED laps in EACH of :
* JP1 (x 2 sessions)
* Renault Clio Cup Car
* Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
* Karts
* Caterham
* 15 mins in FPA single seater (not timed apart from receiving your best lap telemetry print)
* Off roading
* Mitsubishi EVO on a wet "rally" circuit
All very professionally run with excellent friendly instructors (many well known current racing drivers)actively pushing you to drive much quicker than you thought you could.
JP himself was on hand today to present all the prizes etc at the end. The Suzuki Rizli Superbikes Team were there drving all the cars for a bit of fun. Of course they swept the board, winning every event - as you would expect when up against the rest of us amateurs !!
As I say, you get a full telemetry print of your fastest lap in the FPA single seater, overlaid with the same circuit drive by Justin Wilson.
I have absolutely no connection to the Bedford set up but can't recommend it enough to anyone (although at about £550 for the day, better if you're invited!!). Any PHer going cannot fail but be thoroughly impressed & have a great day.
You normally get 5 or 10 TIMED laps in EACH of :
* JP1 (x 2 sessions)
* Renault Clio Cup Car
* Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
* Karts
* Caterham
* 15 mins in FPA single seater (not timed apart from receiving your best lap telemetry print)
* Off roading
* Mitsubishi EVO on a wet "rally" circuit
All very professionally run with excellent friendly instructors (many well known current racing drivers)actively pushing you to drive much quicker than you thought you could.
JP himself was on hand today to present all the prizes etc at the end. The Suzuki Rizli Superbikes Team were there drving all the cars for a bit of fun. Of course they swept the board, winning every event - as you would expect when up against the rest of us amateurs !!
As I say, you get a full telemetry print of your fastest lap in the FPA single seater, overlaid with the same circuit drive by Justin Wilson.
I have absolutely no connection to the Bedford set up but can't recommend it enough to anyone (although at about £550 for the day, better if you're invited!!). Any PHer going cannot fail but be thoroughly impressed & have a great day.
Mixed feelings on the one I did 18th September -- far too many people -- roughly 120, but is a testament to the professionalism that there wasn’t a real sense of hanging around – however did feel that there wasn’t enough track time for £740. There were 5 of us and so kept ourselves occupied (wouldn’t want to be alone) – one of the others had been up last year mid week (about 45 people he recalls, and raved on the track time they had).
The instructors may not explain much of ‘whats about to happen’ – but are patient and good-natured – no – I could have been contender ego stuff.
If it’s somebody else’s money – take the experience
The instructors may not explain much of ‘whats about to happen’ – but are patient and good-natured – no – I could have been contender ego stuff.
If it’s somebody else’s money – take the experience
By coincidence I was there on Tues 28th -- took a load of my clients. It is the best corporate driving event in ther UK
Our team came a long way last (Renault), some of my clients had bottled out by mid afternoon -- they had nausea!!
Most of us loved it though. Despite the Rizla Suzuki motorcycle speed merchants I managed to get 6th place overall out of 77 -- I was very pleased with that, got the result by being consistent across all the cars, rather than being the fastest in any particular one.
The highlight for me is definitely the JP1 Jags, the most phenomenal grip on the fast corners -- it just takes me to a place I could never dream of in a road car.
My 19 year old son is desperate to go one day so might be forced to do some bonding and go again soon!!
paul f
Our team came a long way last (Renault), some of my clients had bottled out by mid afternoon -- they had nausea!!
Most of us loved it though. Despite the Rizla Suzuki motorcycle speed merchants I managed to get 6th place overall out of 77 -- I was very pleased with that, got the result by being consistent across all the cars, rather than being the fastest in any particular one.
The highlight for me is definitely the JP1 Jags, the most phenomenal grip on the fast corners -- it just takes me to a place I could never dream of in a road car.
My 19 year old son is desperate to go one day so might be forced to do some bonding and go again soon!!
paul f
Well done leagleagleboy - I've just checked your times on the print out & they were certainly impressive & consistently good. Mine were rubbish by comparison, although I actually thought I was driving OK at the time !! - I've done the day a few times now & they were by far the worst times I've ever posted.
Mind you I'm fairly sure there must be a reasonable difference between the performance of one car of the same make & another. As an example, check out say Catherine Denning's time on the South circuit in the JP1 - 67.15 placed her a creditable 14th out of 77 & a little faster than you. On the North circuit in a different JP1, she was 59th out of 77, & with a time of 37.6, some 3 seconds slower than you !
One chap in our team who readily admits he's not a very quick driver, did a middle 60s position in the Karts out of 77, a late 50s position out of 77 in the Superlight, an early 60s position out of 77 in the Clio Cup Racer, was in the 50s out of 77 overall (getting the picture ?) & then at the end of the day, suddenly popped in a 7th out of 77 in the JP1 on the South circuit (actually 2nd out of 72 if you exclude the 5 professional Suzuki Rizla guys in front of him !). A full 2 seconds quicker than you & I'm fairly certain he simply can't drive like that.
I can imagine how quick you were pushing to get that time on the South circuit & frankly having seen my colleague drive, I don't think he could possibly have been 2 seconds quicker.
- so although it's great to get a "benchmark time" & get "all competitive" with your mates etc, I don't think comparisons between the different cars on the same sessions are that relevant & should perhaps be taken with a little "pinch of salt". Do the analysis yourself on the print-out & you will see plenty of examples of what I'm talking about.
Still a fantasic day as I'm sure you'll agree.
Mind you I'm fairly sure there must be a reasonable difference between the performance of one car of the same make & another. As an example, check out say Catherine Denning's time on the South circuit in the JP1 - 67.15 placed her a creditable 14th out of 77 & a little faster than you. On the North circuit in a different JP1, she was 59th out of 77, & with a time of 37.6, some 3 seconds slower than you !
One chap in our team who readily admits he's not a very quick driver, did a middle 60s position in the Karts out of 77, a late 50s position out of 77 in the Superlight, an early 60s position out of 77 in the Clio Cup Racer, was in the 50s out of 77 overall (getting the picture ?) & then at the end of the day, suddenly popped in a 7th out of 77 in the JP1 on the South circuit (actually 2nd out of 72 if you exclude the 5 professional Suzuki Rizla guys in front of him !). A full 2 seconds quicker than you & I'm fairly certain he simply can't drive like that.
I can imagine how quick you were pushing to get that time on the South circuit & frankly having seen my colleague drive, I don't think he could possibly have been 2 seconds quicker.
- so although it's great to get a "benchmark time" & get "all competitive" with your mates etc, I don't think comparisons between the different cars on the same sessions are that relevant & should perhaps be taken with a little "pinch of salt". Do the analysis yourself on the print-out & you will see plenty of examples of what I'm talking about.
Still a fantasic day as I'm sure you'll agree.
Some thoughts on the times.
(thank you for your kind remarks)
I feel sure there are some real differences within each type of car. For example my North JP1 pulled much better to 6200 ish than the South one -- I worked my socks off trying to get a good time on the south circuit and failed. Now the JP1's have turbos and will then be much more sensitive to air temp --so my poor JP1 result was when it was warmest and a better one at the end of the day when it started to get cooler -- a thought anyway.
Secondly, it is possible to get better times by doing some serious corner cutting. They do say the instructors will dis-allow a lap if you stray off line, but I am not sure how rigorous they are with this -- after all they want you to do well so IMO they will more likely let it go providing you are in full control & safe. One of our guys did really well in the Clio and did not show at all in any of the other cars -- how can that be? really puzzling -- must of missed the chicane or had a good instructor or a better car ?????
On the Caterhams there are quite a lot of grass block areas just to the side of the tarmac racing line -- using them does shorten the circuit and a better time must then result.
finally -- love it so much that I have booked personally and am taking my 19 year old son on Oct 23rd to celebrate his A level results -- hope he does not beat me!!!
paul f
(thank you for your kind remarks)
I feel sure there are some real differences within each type of car. For example my North JP1 pulled much better to 6200 ish than the South one -- I worked my socks off trying to get a good time on the south circuit and failed. Now the JP1's have turbos and will then be much more sensitive to air temp --so my poor JP1 result was when it was warmest and a better one at the end of the day when it started to get cooler -- a thought anyway.
Secondly, it is possible to get better times by doing some serious corner cutting. They do say the instructors will dis-allow a lap if you stray off line, but I am not sure how rigorous they are with this -- after all they want you to do well so IMO they will more likely let it go providing you are in full control & safe. One of our guys did really well in the Clio and did not show at all in any of the other cars -- how can that be? really puzzling -- must of missed the chicane or had a good instructor or a better car ?????
On the Caterhams there are quite a lot of grass block areas just to the side of the tarmac racing line -- using them does shorten the circuit and a better time must then result.
finally -- love it so much that I have booked personally and am taking my 19 year old son on Oct 23rd to celebrate his A level results -- hope he does not beat me!!!
paul f
legaleagleboy said:As the instructors are all pretty serious racing drivers, I would imagine that their definition of serious corner cutting would differ in a rather large way than that of Joe public
Secondly, it is possible to get better times by doing some serious corner cutting. They do say the instructors will dis-allow a lap if you stray off line, but I am not sure how rigorous they are with this.
. Rich
legaleagleboy said:
Some thoughts on the times.
(thank you for your kind remarks)
I feel sure there are some real differences within each type of car. For example my North JP1 pulled much better to 6200 ish than the South one -- I worked my socks off trying to get a good time on the south circuit and failed. Now the JP1's have turbos and will then be much more sensitive to air temp --so my poor JP1 result was when it was warmest and a better one at the end of the day when it started to get cooler -- a thought anyway.
Secondly, it is possible to get better times by doing some serious corner cutting. They do say the instructors will dis-allow a lap if you stray off line, but I am not sure how rigorous they are with this -- after all they want you to do well so IMO they will more likely let it go providing you are in full control & safe. One of our guys did really well in the Clio and did not show at all in any of the other cars -- how can that be? really puzzling -- must of missed the chicane or had a good instructor or a better car ?????
On the Caterhams there are quite a lot of grass block areas just to the side of the tarmac racing line -- using them does shorten the circuit and a better time must then result.
finally -- love it so much that I have booked personally and am taking my 19 year old son on Oct 23rd to celebrate his A level results -- hope he does not beat me!!!
paul f
Hi Paul
The big variance in the times make a lot more sense to me now & I don't feel quite as bad for having posted what were my worst times ever there !
Spotted the green "concrete grass" on the Caterham circuit, which if taken would enable you to more or less straight line 1 or 2 of the corners, but had in mind what Tiff Needell was saying in the briefing about staying within the white lines to avoid times being disallowed. I think next time I'll pop in a couple of laps "off line" & see if they count !
Would love to do the day again & join you on the 23rd October as I'd rated the day highly to a few track day friends who've never done the JP Motorsport thing (& of course it would be good to get "benchmark" times against your mates, even if they are as we've now debated, somewhat questionable in their accuracy) but was thinking of going to Oulton that day with Easytrack.
As a matter on interest how much is the day ? - I've been lucky enough to always go as a guest of someone so don't really know. The figure of £550 was chucked around the table at lunch for last Tuesday, but then someone else on this thread had mentioned £740 "ish" which I thought was "a bit steep".
Previous comments on this thread about the engines on the JP1s not being turbo assisted, are I think correct.
Spec is :
Engine
Manufacturer Jaguar 3.0 litre X400
Specialist Preparation Cosworth Racing
Cylinders V6
Valve Gear Quad overhead camshaft, 24 valve, variable valve timing
Fuel Super Unleaded Petrol
Engine Management Pectel engine management
Max power 277 bhp @ 7000 rpm with race spec. 3 into 1 manifold
Torque 312 Nm/230 lbs ft @ 5250 rpm
BHP per tonne RS/TS/LTS 370 / 396 / 420
On a slightly different note - Are you doing the RMA trip to the 'Ring early November by any chance ?
>> Edited by 55jnj on Saturday 2nd October 03:44
djmotorsport said:
JP1 is 3.0l V6 - No turbo! But the North circuit car is shorter geared to suit the track.
As an aside, what were the fastest times from the Rizzla boys?
DJ
Jaguar JP1 - South circuit
Suzuki Rizla guys took the first 4 places (out of 77 participants on the day) with Paul Denning posting the best at 63.63 secs - average (i.e driver placed 38th) time was 69.15 & top placed non Suzuki guy was 64.92 (he was in my team, a thoroughly nice chap & has race experience as well though).
Jaguar JP1 - North circuit
Suzuki took first 2 places with Scott Robbins posting the best at 34.08 - average was 36.57 & top placed non Suzuki guy 34.25 (again this chap was in my team & said he used to race/rally historics).
Renault Clio Cup Racer
Suzuki took first place with John Reynolds posting a time of 88.08 - average was 93.95 & top placed non Suzuki driver 88.82 - however on the Renault Clio times, they had re-modelled the chicane after the first group of 10 drivers had gone through to slow it down, as several of them had apparently ploughed straight through ! The instructors were saying that the "re-modelling" would have added at least a second or 2 to subsequent groups' times, so the overall times here were a little more difficult to gauge. For instance, James, the guy with the race experience in my team who came in just behind the Suzuki guys on just about everything else, was a whole 2 secs off the pace here, compared to the top non Suz place.
Vauxhall VX220
Suzuki guys took first 3 places with Niall McKenzie posting 71.07 secs - average time was 78.13 & top non Suzuki driver was 74.94 (the same guy in my team who posted the best non Suz time on the JP1 South circuit !)
EVO 7s - only subjective marking by the instructors, no times. (Suz guys still 2nd & 3rd though)
Caterham Superlight
Suzuki guys took the first 3 places with John Reynolds posting the best at a blistering time of 49.29 - average was 54.31 & best non Suz guy was the same chap again in my team who used to race, with a time of 50.44 - The instructors normally say that anything below 50 on this circuit is absolutely "no chance" for "amateurs". This was my best result at low 51s at what were otherwise times to forget for me - next time there though I'm going to take leagleagleboys' advice (is this free advice from a lawyer Paul ? - bloody hell)& use the "concrete grass" to try & straight line a corner or 2 - should be worth half a second at least !
Karts (single engine only so serious handicap to gentlemen (& women !) of a "certain size")
Suzuki guys took first 4 places with Niall McKenzie posting the best at 24.41 - average was 27.35 & the best placed non Suz guy was 25.19 (yes, the same ex racer guy again in my team !)
>> Edited by 55jnj on Saturday 2nd October 04:13
>> Edited by 55jnj on Saturday 2nd October 04:22
Nice to read those detailed posts.
So much for my theory about the colder weather and JP1 'turbo' -- must read the specs more closely next time.
Price does depend how many are booked at a given time, also if you take up a space within a week or two of the date there is about £100 late booking discount if you ask for it!
It is pricey but ends up being fabulous value for money and truly memorable. Oct 23rd with a late booking discount, food & damage waiver is £515 + VAT. (so rate card for that day is £615 +VAT) I think it is a little cheaper later than this & more expensive still in the summer.
For comaparison I have done a trackday in my Porsche 968 at Bedford -- did about 200 miles and I estimate the direct cost of tyres, RMA fee, fuel, lunch etc is at least £350. Add to that other indirect costs due to wear and tear -- closer to the next service, depreciation etc. Also you are getting personal tuition all the time which would actually cost about £20 to £30 for every 30 minutes. So that is the deal.
No not going to the Ring at all -- must do it one day though.
Will be doing Donington & probably Bedford once each before Christmas. The Porker is having it's head breathed on in an effort to find about 20 lost horses -- following some low readings on a rolling road session.
paul f
So much for my theory about the colder weather and JP1 'turbo' -- must read the specs more closely next time.
Price does depend how many are booked at a given time, also if you take up a space within a week or two of the date there is about £100 late booking discount if you ask for it!
It is pricey but ends up being fabulous value for money and truly memorable. Oct 23rd with a late booking discount, food & damage waiver is £515 + VAT. (so rate card for that day is £615 +VAT) I think it is a little cheaper later than this & more expensive still in the summer.
For comaparison I have done a trackday in my Porsche 968 at Bedford -- did about 200 miles and I estimate the direct cost of tyres, RMA fee, fuel, lunch etc is at least £350. Add to that other indirect costs due to wear and tear -- closer to the next service, depreciation etc. Also you are getting personal tuition all the time which would actually cost about £20 to £30 for every 30 minutes. So that is the deal.
No not going to the Ring at all -- must do it one day though.
Will be doing Donington & probably Bedford once each before Christmas. The Porker is having it's head breathed on in an effort to find about 20 lost horses -- following some low readings on a rolling road session.
paul f
I'm going on this corporate event this Wednesday 13th!
Having recently done the Silverstone 5 day race intensive course, this will be a really good opportunity to put my newly acquired skills into practice. I'm mostly looking forward to the FPA single seaters and, of course, the JP1!
I'll also be turning up in my Nomex race gear when everyone else will be in jeans, sweatshirts etc
Having recently done the Silverstone 5 day race intensive course, this will be a really good opportunity to put my newly acquired skills into practice. I'm mostly looking forward to the FPA single seaters and, of course, the JP1!
I'll also be turning up in my Nomex race gear when everyone else will be in jeans, sweatshirts etc
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