Doing it on the cheap, recommendations?
Discussion
I think there is a trend towards 'upgraditus', which is understandable.
However, my first 'spend' would be to ensure that all the suspension bushings, steering bushings, top mounts and the like are good. The car must be at least 20 years old - how old are these bits, have they been replaced recently? I think you'll find that any 'slop' in the steering / suspension will annoy you when you to accurately place the car around a corner and find yourself fighting against 20 year old bushes...
However, my first 'spend' would be to ensure that all the suspension bushings, steering bushings, top mounts and the like are good. The car must be at least 20 years old - how old are these bits, have they been replaced recently? I think you'll find that any 'slop' in the steering / suspension will annoy you when you to accurately place the car around a corner and find yourself fighting against 20 year old bushes...
Ian-27xza said:
I think there is a trend towards 'upgraditus', which is understandable.
However, my first 'spend' would be to ensure that all the suspension bushings, steering bushings, top mounts and the like are good. The car must be at least 20 years old - how old are these bits, have they been replaced recently? I think you'll find that any 'slop' in the steering / suspension will annoy you when you to accurately place the car around a corner and find yourself fighting against 20 year old bushes...
Bushings have been replaced on suspension arms by previous owner, which had "like new" (not crumbling) bushings in them, top mounts are still in 1 piece (on the front at least, not checked rear), engine mounts are a little tired but it's not shaking the car to death.However, my first 'spend' would be to ensure that all the suspension bushings, steering bushings, top mounts and the like are good. The car must be at least 20 years old - how old are these bits, have they been replaced recently? I think you'll find that any 'slop' in the steering / suspension will annoy you when you to accurately place the car around a corner and find yourself fighting against 20 year old bushes...
When I first got the car I was wanting to put something between oem and polybush hardness but didn't really see the point as it had refreshed oem bushings anyway.
The car spent the first 15 years of it's life garaged, it was only when it moved onto the 2nd owner (who lost license due to DUI) it say outside and never moved for 5 years or so, the person I bought it off was this persons neighbour. They fixed most of the issues (bushings, damaged roof, belt change fluids etc etc) except 2 big ones, completely dead red paint and rusty arches. Car has 43k miles on it.
TheLoraxxZeus said:
48k said:
If you are considering running semi slick tyres don't underestimate the impact on your suspension and toe links and roll bar due to the increased loads that they weren't designed for.
Having a toe link snap mid corner is puckering, ask me how I know.
Someone above did mention that, is it going to seriously fHaving a toe link snap mid corner is puckering, ask me how I know.
k the car up? If so, I'll stick to finding part used did l road tires.TheLoraxxZeus said:
Is there any tires that can be recommended for wet days that are 14 inch? Price isn't as much of a factor because they are probably going to last bloody ages. I'm going to pick up some 15 inch oem alloys today from someone on Facebook, the ones you get on the sport trim MX-5 NB2. £80, can't complain! These will be for dry days.
I was going to keep my 14 inches for wet tires since I already own the wheels. Or should I just try and find another set of cheap 15s? I also already have the uniroyals on them, but the rear nearside tires is not doing well.
If you can use 15s instead you can usually get Michelin Pilot Sport 3s which are very good. If you really want to splash the cash you could buy a set of proper race wets: https://www.tyretek.co.uk/products/hankook-200-58-...I was going to keep my 14 inches for wet tires since I already own the wheels. Or should I just try and find another set of cheap 15s? I also already have the uniroyals on them, but the rear nearside tires is not doing well.
aka_kerrly said:
Cambs_Stuart said:
A couple of lessons I've had from doing it on the cheap in my Clio 172.
AD08s are not the best, most sticky track day tyre if you're worried about lap times, but they last really well, and crucially have got a stiffer sidewall than a road tyre. I've done 12 days on them in my Clio (200+ miles per day) and they've got plenty of life left. They're rubbish in the wet. cheaper).
Regarding the wet performance of the Yokohama tyres , having survived wet track days in a 350hp Civic Type R on AD08 & AD08R the R is certainly acceptable in the wet and once there is some heat in them the braking/corner grip was at least relatively consistent. AD08s are not the best, most sticky track day tyre if you're worried about lap times, but they last really well, and crucially have got a stiffer sidewall than a road tyre. I've done 12 days on them in my Clio (200+ miles per day) and they've got plenty of life left. They're rubbish in the wet. cheaper).
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Friday 24th May 14:25
I've also used Bridgestone RE50, RE70, Uniroyal Rainsport3, Vredstein Ultrac Vorti and none of those felt significantly better or worse than the AD08R did around a wet Castle Combe. In the dry the ADO8R is by far the most grippy tyre, certainly inspires a lot of confidence with repeatable grip/cornering during 15min sessions and as noted the tread lasts reasonably well too.
May as well post an update on this.
Last track day until September I think, as I need to address issues with the car. Rollbar (GC3) was fit a week prior and was ok to do, bit of a faff due to confined space. Can feel the difference in the chassis though, feels like the rear isn't separating from the car under cornering load which I hadn't noticed until I drove with the bar.
15 inch wheels sourced, so I'll most likely have semi-slicks or part worn road tires on for next time. Suspension needs sorting, badly. I'm unsure if I will get this done by September as I have to weld up new sills first. Seats have been acquired however one is on my sim rig temporarily and it's god awful, back breaking discomfort but perhaps the angle is wrong and will be different in the car.
Thanks for the advice everyone, and picture attached so you can see my poor sidewalls getting hammered.
Last track day until September I think, as I need to address issues with the car. Rollbar (GC3) was fit a week prior and was ok to do, bit of a faff due to confined space. Can feel the difference in the chassis though, feels like the rear isn't separating from the car under cornering load which I hadn't noticed until I drove with the bar.
15 inch wheels sourced, so I'll most likely have semi-slicks or part worn road tires on for next time. Suspension needs sorting, badly. I'm unsure if I will get this done by September as I have to weld up new sills first. Seats have been acquired however one is on my sim rig temporarily and it's god awful, back breaking discomfort but perhaps the angle is wrong and will be different in the car.
Thanks for the advice everyone, and picture attached so you can see my poor sidewalls getting hammered.
brillomaster said:
Sheesh what tyres and pressures were they at? Definitely need some stiffer sidewall rubber on there... budget track tyres in 15" sizes are pretty cheap, why wouldn't you?
They are 14 inch, Uniroyal rain sports. Pressure was 35 cold. I've got 15s, just no tires yet. I just ran what I had while I sort things out. Having to deal with Facebook people when buying stuff sucks, that's ages to shift through the garbage.
TheLoraxxZeus said:
They are 14 inch, Uniroyal rain sports. Pressure was 35 cold.
I've got 15s, just no tires yet. I just ran what I had while I sort things out. Having to deal with Facebook people when buying stuff sucks, that's ages to shift through the garbage.
Ah yeah they'll have super soft sidewalls... great for straight line grip and wet weather, not so good for steering feel or lateral loads. A good set of summer tyres will help, but budget track tyres even better.I've got 15s, just no tires yet. I just ran what I had while I sort things out. Having to deal with Facebook people when buying stuff sucks, that's ages to shift through the garbage.
Could even get some part worn tyres off FB for cheap, if you can find the right sizes.
Small update.
I've made some purchases (I might move this to a "cheap MX-5 trackday car" thread or something) to tackle some of the issues, perhaps destroying my initial approach of as cheap as possible.
Cost breakdown.
Total: £1500
So it's in-line with my idea of cheap, considering my other outgoings throughout the year when I split it out over 12 months. For the fun I had I would say £900 well spent, however I wish I had done things differently and got bigger wheels and different tires which is apparent from the comments in this thread. Fuel is an estimate, because I never kept receipts but I know I filled up twice and ended up with a half tank sitting in the car over the winter.
Total: £1085
Wife would not let me have anymore track time until I got a rollbar. She kindly paid for this but I'll include it here for completeness. There was a £15 difference between branded and Halfrods engine oil, I didn't see the point in saving that money on something crucial and insignificant in terms of cost.
I have the following, waiting to be fit:
Total: £1405
Grand Total: £4890
So it's kind of gotten more expensive than I hoped. The coilovers are the killer and that's not even a high end model, it's barely mid-range. The engine mounts were something a mechanic friend suggested after he seen how much movement there was on the old rubber ones. The drop links are very crusty and perished looking, cheap to purchase and will be in that area anyway. I was torn between buying cheaper coilovers and a set of anti-rollbars, but I decided against since too many changes at once will make it harder to understand what the changes are actually doing.
In theory my costs next year should be lower, and focused more on cheap consumables and track days rather than big 1 time purchases.
The good thing is at least the money isn't getting spent on consumables, yeah the coilovers will require servicing but it's the upfront cost that sucks. I did consider used but I don't see the point in saving a couple hundred £££ on something that needs refurbed.
I do however think it may be wise that I spend some money on upgrading the cooling system with a new rad, reroute and oil cooler. As someone said in here, the less time I spend in the pits cooling down the more value I am getting out of the track days. I'm also on the fence about a HANS device as they are ridiculously expensive, perhaps I need to show my wife some injuries in motorsport pre HANS lol.
I've made some purchases (I might move this to a "cheap MX-5 trackday car" thread or something) to tackle some of the issues, perhaps destroying my initial approach of as cheap as possible.
Cost breakdown.
Car on road
- Car - £1000
- Insurance - £180
- Tax - £320 (I think)
Total: £1500
Year 1
- Half track day - £125
- x2 track nights - £210
- 14 inch Uniroyal Rain Experts (tires that came with it were old) - £240
- Fuel - £150~
- Mintex pads front and rear - £105
- Front caliper rebuild kits - £35
- AP Racing brake fluod - £35
So it's in-line with my idea of cheap, considering my other outgoings throughout the year when I split it out over 12 months. For the fun I had I would say £900 well spent, however I wish I had done things differently and got bigger wheels and different tires which is apparent from the comments in this thread. Fuel is an estimate, because I never kept receipts but I know I filled up twice and ended up with a half tank sitting in the car over the winter.
Year 2 First Half
- Half track day - £125
- x3 track nights - £315
- GC3 Rollbar - £450
- Engine Oil (Millers comp) - £45
- Fuel - £150~
Total: £1085
Wife would not let me have anymore track time until I got a rollbar. She kindly paid for this but I'll include it here for completeness. There was a £15 difference between branded and Halfrods engine oil, I didn't see the point in saving that money on something crucial and insignificant in terms of cost.
Year 2 Second Half (current)
I have the following, waiting to be fit:
- x4 15 inch OEM alloys (used off FB): £50
- x4 part worn gti semi slicks - £150 (£33 each + postage)
- Clutch slave cylinder - £20
- x2 used Corbeau Forza seats - £100
- x2 used 6PT harness, TRS and STR - £50 and £60
- MeisterR Sport-Z Coilovers - £760
- Poly engine mounts (current ones are sketchy) - £50
- x2 front drop links - £40
Total: £1405
Grand Total: £4890
So it's kind of gotten more expensive than I hoped. The coilovers are the killer and that's not even a high end model, it's barely mid-range. The engine mounts were something a mechanic friend suggested after he seen how much movement there was on the old rubber ones. The drop links are very crusty and perished looking, cheap to purchase and will be in that area anyway. I was torn between buying cheaper coilovers and a set of anti-rollbars, but I decided against since too many changes at once will make it harder to understand what the changes are actually doing.
In theory my costs next year should be lower, and focused more on cheap consumables and track days rather than big 1 time purchases.
The good thing is at least the money isn't getting spent on consumables, yeah the coilovers will require servicing but it's the upfront cost that sucks. I did consider used but I don't see the point in saving a couple hundred £££ on something that needs refurbed.
I do however think it may be wise that I spend some money on upgrading the cooling system with a new rad, reroute and oil cooler. As someone said in here, the less time I spend in the pits cooling down the more value I am getting out of the track days. I'm also on the fence about a HANS device as they are ridiculously expensive, perhaps I need to show my wife some injuries in motorsport pre HANS lol.
Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Tuesday 2nd July 12:06
good write up... must say our opinions on doing it on the cheap are beginning to diverge lol, my first track car was on the road for less than what you've just paid for coilovers... and when the dampers went my 'on the cheap' brain went straight to ebay for some JOM specials for about £180.
i must say, cooling mods is an interesting one... i've tracked numerous cars now, many with infamously flaky cooling systems, and not once have i ever upgraded the engine or oil cooling systems... does the mx5 actually overheat on track? i find standard cooling systems are more than adequate for standard power levels, after all they will have been designed to still work when sitting in traffic, on a 40 degree day in dubai.
brake cooling is something i might consider, but then again, only if you were actually experiencing brake overheating problems on track, after fitting decent track pads.
i shudder to think what my total spend on track cars is now, if you're including the cost of the trackdays themselves, thats at least 50 days, at an average of £200 a day is £10k straight away... thats excluding the 5 or so cars i've been through in that time as well...
i must say, cooling mods is an interesting one... i've tracked numerous cars now, many with infamously flaky cooling systems, and not once have i ever upgraded the engine or oil cooling systems... does the mx5 actually overheat on track? i find standard cooling systems are more than adequate for standard power levels, after all they will have been designed to still work when sitting in traffic, on a 40 degree day in dubai.
brake cooling is something i might consider, but then again, only if you were actually experiencing brake overheating problems on track, after fitting decent track pads.
i shudder to think what my total spend on track cars is now, if you're including the cost of the trackdays themselves, thats at least 50 days, at an average of £200 a day is £10k straight away... thats excluding the 5 or so cars i've been through in that time as well...
Unless there's extra power than stock (i.e. forced induction or ITBs), a new OE radiator with fresh coolant is all that's needed on an MX5. I did 20 trackdays in my old Mk1 1.8 (and 5 in my current one) and the temperature gauge stayed in the middle, only once at Blyton Park did it start to rise but it was a very hot day, pushing hard and I managed to rip the entire outer edge of a Pilot Sport 3 on the same day! For reference, I do 180-200 miles each trackday, typically doing sessions of 20-30 minutes, with the odd 40-50 minute session at the end of the day when it gets quiet.
Pads.
When I able to get hold of them I used Axxis ULT which needed a few high speed runs to cook them a bit. After that they were superb. Failing that EBC is a decent place to look.
Tyres.
I used to like Federal SuperSteel 595s but they're a Marmite tyre. Some people seem to rave about them, others loath them with a passion. I fall into the 'like' camp of people. The nice thing about Federal tyres is that they're relatively inexpensive. When it comes to Toyo though I'm firmly on the other side of the fence as I absolutely hated the TR-1s I had fitted.
When I able to get hold of them I used Axxis ULT which needed a few high speed runs to cook them a bit. After that they were superb. Failing that EBC is a decent place to look.
Tyres.
I used to like Federal SuperSteel 595s but they're a Marmite tyre. Some people seem to rave about them, others loath them with a passion. I fall into the 'like' camp of people. The nice thing about Federal tyres is that they're relatively inexpensive. When it comes to Toyo though I'm firmly on the other side of the fence as I absolutely hated the TR-1s I had fitted.
brillomaster said:
good write up... must say our opinions on doing it on the cheap are beginning to diverge lol, my first track car was on the road for less than what you've just paid for coilovers... and when the dampers went my 'on the cheap' brain went straight to ebay for some JOM specials for about £180.
If I was doing 1-2 track days per year maybe I would have just went with some ebay specials, but I'm aiming to do 1-2 per month. I would be quite paranoid if I went super cheap.brillomaster said:
i must say, cooling mods is an interesting one... i've tracked numerous cars now, many with infamously flaky cooling systems, and not once have i ever upgraded the engine or oil cooling systems... does the mx5 actually overheat on track? i find standard cooling systems are more than adequate for standard power levels, after all they will have been designed to still work when sitting in traffic, on a 40 degree day in dubai.
Don't think it overheats, I would rather not find out. Apparently the NB has a "fake" temperature sensor, it gives a reading that it's somewhere between cold and up to temp, and the reading between fine and not fine is supposed to be small. The oil pressure guage is ste as well, just tells you that you have pressure, the actual dial itself is fake. It does get extremely hot under the hood though, no idea whats normal but I wouldn't want to even touch the hood after a stint.brillomaster said:
brake cooling is something i might consider, but then again, only if you were actually experiencing brake overheating problems on track, after fitting decent track pads.
My local track, Knockhill isn't really hard on brakes for an MX-5. Most of the corners are fast, and because the car is so damn slow it spends ages on the straights cooling down. I did have problems in the past with sketchy £15 brake pads, those cooked themselves after 5 laps and the pedal went to the floor.brillomaster said:
i shudder to think what my total spend on track cars is now, if you're including the cost of the trackdays themselves, thats at least 50 days, at an average of £200 a day is £10k straight away... thats excluding the 5 or so cars i've been through in that time as well...
I'm not really worried about the cost of the days themselves really. I'm more interested in "how cheap can I rag a car throught the entire year without it blowing up".Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff