Nurburgring 2024
Discussion
Cheburator mk2 said:
Fabian Sigvart’s E30 M3 was powered by a genuine M1 Procar engine with about 470bhp. The fact that Fabian’s day job was being a BMW Test Driver was the added icing on the cake…
That's amazing!! He didn't speak much English but when I lost an engine mount in my Caterham on a lap and the engine was only held up by the water rail I went off to the cafe to work out how I was going to get home. When I came back to the car he had heard the story from others and fixed it for me and I never had a chance to properly thank him...what an absolute star 
cseven said:
That's amazing!! He didn't speak much English but when I lost an engine mount in my Caterham on a lap and the engine was only held up by the water rail I went off to the cafe to work out how I was going to get home. When I came back to the car he had heard the story from others and fixed it for me and I never had a chance to properly thank him...what an absolute star
He was a legend - really nice guy - and a very competent ring racer. Used to pedal an E30 318iS in VLN to many a podium finish in class with great flair. Gave up as the VLN got increasingly more corporate and stacked against the small privateer and in favour of the paying arrive and drive racer… Sad, but a fact of life I guess… Started lapping in 2003, held a Jachreskarte for many seasons and probably have about 1500 laps. These days I confine myself to a DN and CD per year. Maybe one or two laps TF in my brother’s car which being Lux registered is properly insured. What happened with Misha was to be expected. It was good he didn’t take out anyone else with him… Won’t say more…
PRO5T said:
I still love it but it’s a different place. I truly miss old TF. I wouldn’t drive it now unless I lucked into a midweek quiet summers night if they still exist. Those quiet late laps when the sun is getting low, you’re only at 8/10ths speed, you see a couple of bikers, maybe a local expert in an old golf or Megane and one dream supercar. Bliss.
This is the reason I still love the Ring. Sometimes at the end of a weekday evening, you can sneak on right before they close the barriers. And if you're really lucky you will have the whole track to yourself. It's happened to me a couple of times and to just drive and enjoy the track alone is a superb experience. You feel it's just you, the car and the track. You can't help but smile going under the gantry at the end with the sun low and Nurburg castle off in the distance.
I have a real soft spot for the ring, after having the most amazing spur of the moment trip there in 2005. Went to watch a DTM race and ended up doing my first ever track time during TF. Over the following week. I visited the old museum. rode mountain bikes around the circuit, watched the industry pool cars and stayed in a near empty B&B for peanuts.I was a pig in the proverbial, I couldn't believe I'd stumbled across petrol head nirvana. I'd been back a few time since, the last time in 2019 and really noticed the change and not for the better. It just felt more on edge and I did 4 early morning laps, parked up feeling happy to have survived and really felt any more would be tempting fate. So I'd just stear clear of weekend TF, but encourage anyone who loves driving to visit the circuit at least once as there is nothing on earth like it.
Edited by blaine54 on Sunday 9th June 17:35
so many memories and so many names I recognise-I think a lot of us will have crossed paths over there.I started off in the Ben Lovejoy era and the BMW M Guide that you printed off to learn the track (and made me buy an M3 CSL!)
The Dale Lomas era, my days what a time to be alive too. I used to love going to see Dale and John for bits and bobs, when Ron bought the R26.R’s foR RSR and I had mine I could text john and get a new set of pads or discs in under and hour from the car park,
Then me and Steve (FA57 DAD if you remember) doing almost one weekend a month from 2009 onwards I seem to remember-our R26.R’s, his GTR or 997 RS.
I still remember when he first got the GTR (one of the first official 12 in Europe) getting swamped at petrol stations all down the E34 by folk making a pilgrimage down to the ring-maybe 2010? I felt like a rock star!
The old days though, Michaela at the Blau Ecke, the old museum, that luge place when the weather was crap, obviously no one can mention the cherry bar
Oh and Chris’ old road race to the ring once a year (N400 maybe?) before the Alpine Adventure and everyone’s cars getting confiscated before AGT Law got everyone sorted out.Some classic, special memories.
And exactly the reason I have a 996 GT3 in the garage, when I first started it was what all the players had. Turning up in a Nissan 350Z and seeing all these GT3s when there was only one 911 in my home town was mind blowing-plus la change I guess!
so many memories and so many names I recognise-I think a lot of us will have crossed paths over there.I started off in the Ben Lovejoy era and the BMW M Guide that you printed off to learn the track (and made me buy an M3 CSL!)
The Dale Lomas era, my days what a time to be alive too. I used to love going to see Dale and John for bits and bobs, when Ron bought the R26.R’s foR RSR and I had mine I could text john and get a new set of pads or discs in under and hour from the car park,
Then me and Steve (FA57 DAD if you remember) doing almost one weekend a month from 2009 onwards I seem to remember-our R26.R’s, his GTR or 997 RS.
I still remember when he first got the GTR (one of the first official 12 in Europe) getting swamped at petrol stations all down the E34 by folk making a pilgrimage down to the ring-maybe 2010? I felt like a rock star!
The old days though, Michaela at the Blau Ecke, the old museum, that luge place when the weather was crap, obviously no one can mention the cherry bar
Oh and Chris’ old road race to the ring once a year (N400 maybe?) before the Alpine Adventure and everyone’s cars getting confiscated before AGT Law got everyone sorted out.Some classic, special memories.
And exactly the reason I have a 996 GT3 in the garage, when I first started it was what all the players had. Turning up in a Nissan 350Z and seeing all these GT3s when there was only one 911 in my home town was mind blowing-plus la change I guess!
Someone summed it up perfect for me.
"I had no issue with him monetising his channel, but for me, the issue came when he started racing and began applying pro driver overtaking aggression to TF laps. There is a) no need and b) not everybody driving TF will understand what’s about to happen. This week’s M4 crash was a technical/talent issue but I’m fairly sure he will end up tangling with some billy out for a gentle one off lap, and Sod’s Law will ensure it is at somewhere like Schwedenkreuz at 150mph+…."
It's no longer the same place it was. I'd much rather go over now sit watch and have a nice chilled time with friends than drive it.
When I was over earlier in the year I was chatting with a friend and we both agreed pre top gear was the best even around then. To us its been an amazing time but its past it now. Un safe, to quick and no common sense / people chasing instagram clout.
Granted people going now will say its amazing and have their best time ever but they didn't sample it at peak time.
That is all my view as it will differ for most.
For me I've now found another track to love in Holland
"I had no issue with him monetising his channel, but for me, the issue came when he started racing and began applying pro driver overtaking aggression to TF laps. There is a) no need and b) not everybody driving TF will understand what’s about to happen. This week’s M4 crash was a technical/talent issue but I’m fairly sure he will end up tangling with some billy out for a gentle one off lap, and Sod’s Law will ensure it is at somewhere like Schwedenkreuz at 150mph+…."
It's no longer the same place it was. I'd much rather go over now sit watch and have a nice chilled time with friends than drive it.
When I was over earlier in the year I was chatting with a friend and we both agreed pre top gear was the best even around then. To us its been an amazing time but its past it now. Un safe, to quick and no common sense / people chasing instagram clout.
Granted people going now will say its amazing and have their best time ever but they didn't sample it at peak time.
That is all my view as it will differ for most.
For me I've now found another track to love in Holland
I guess one of the beauties of the TF is that you can arrive late in an afternoon, enjoy a couple of laps and then depending on your plans, carry on... We've done it back from the Alps and northern Italy, which is a nice stop over before heading back to the UK.
Any track day is kind of committed for the whole day, both in terms of time and cost. Not sure if anywhere else caters for that in Europe or the UK?
Any track day is kind of committed for the whole day, both in terms of time and cost. Not sure if anywhere else caters for that in Europe or the UK?
I have to agree with what all the old school are saying , we first tipped up twenty something years ago and been back once or twice a year since for TF , we really don’t take it seriously and just go for a jolly .
First few years it was £6 - £7 a lap and a paper ticket , one of the most stressful things back then was deciding where you would park in the devils diner car park , there were so many free places !
Every year it’s got busier but it was fine until , as mentioned, the look at us crowd started turning up .
The cars are a lot faster than they ever were and a lot of drivers ,in my eyes , go looking for a race with a similar car but from a different manufacturer , I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this ? Everyone is more willing to risk it all just to pass a similar performance car .
We only go during the week these days and even then we choose very carefully , Monday to Wednesday off peak , check those German bank holidays.
We were there 13th May for a few days and the place was pretty quiet but still a lot busier than it used to be . We even now stay in mayen to avoid adenau , plus the road up is almost as good as half a lap of the ring !
We’ve met a lot of good people over the years there , and stayed in touch with a few , went to one guys wedding in Ireland whom I met there and visited him when he moved to New York , him and his wife joined us in May all the way from California.
It just doesnt seem to be that personal these days , too many people and not much trust , we’ve helped loads of guys over the years from fixing cars to finding someone in the car park and running him down to the hospital to see to his mate who fell off a bike .
We will still go every year as long as we are able to but the beer is now taking precedence over the track time these days !
First few years it was £6 - £7 a lap and a paper ticket , one of the most stressful things back then was deciding where you would park in the devils diner car park , there were so many free places !
Every year it’s got busier but it was fine until , as mentioned, the look at us crowd started turning up .
The cars are a lot faster than they ever were and a lot of drivers ,in my eyes , go looking for a race with a similar car but from a different manufacturer , I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this ? Everyone is more willing to risk it all just to pass a similar performance car .
We only go during the week these days and even then we choose very carefully , Monday to Wednesday off peak , check those German bank holidays.
We were there 13th May for a few days and the place was pretty quiet but still a lot busier than it used to be . We even now stay in mayen to avoid adenau , plus the road up is almost as good as half a lap of the ring !
We’ve met a lot of good people over the years there , and stayed in touch with a few , went to one guys wedding in Ireland whom I met there and visited him when he moved to New York , him and his wife joined us in May all the way from California.
It just doesnt seem to be that personal these days , too many people and not much trust , we’ve helped loads of guys over the years from fixing cars to finding someone in the car park and running him down to the hospital to see to his mate who fell off a bike .
We will still go every year as long as we are able to but the beer is now taking precedence over the track time these days !
My first visit was 10 yrs ago hired a R26R Megane from RSR, did a v quiet Trackday which was great and not so intimidating given my lack of experience. Tbh I wouldn’t fancy starting from scratch there now given the state of TF and then the pace of the really fast cars on DN Trackdays (albeit with less traffic). I actually did a couple of TF laps last yr for first time just to tick the box it was ok not too busy so had a nice cruise around. Over again at end of July for Ringmeisters and will be there the Sat too but will prob give TF a miss if it’s v busy.
PRO5T said:
Then me and Steve (FA57 DAD if you remember) doing almost one weekend a month from 2009 onwards I seem to remember-our R26.R’s, his GTR or 997 RS.
Reminds me of my last trip out in 2017, decided to rent a Swift Sport from R4R and came across an orange 997.1 GT3RS registered 'FA51DAD' on one of my laps - fortunately pulled over at Hatzenbach to let me by, it did pray on my mind though the risk of taking something that expensive on track during TF with nutters like me about... 
Also
at people still rocking up to Mischa and letting him wrap their pride and joy around the barriers in the name of YouTube views.There was already 20 years ago special on edge feeling around the place. People driving much more aggressively everywhere around the track. Especially bikers.
Witnessed accident outside track on intersection next to long straight down from tourist drive roundabout. UK XK120 roadster was hit while standing still waiting in T junction to turn to under track tunnel. Three bikers were coming downhill way too fast. Fastest managed to take flight into roadside bushes and helicopter flight to hospital. We gave statements to police on the spot. Newer heard anything more about it so I think Jag driver got away from it like he should have even though bikers blamed him on the spot.
Also saw nasty accident on another trip on track when biker went off, hit guardrail and was frown back partly to the track. Friend came to than blind corner only seconds later and hit unconscious biker straight to helmet at about 80kph I think. Friend was in real trouble for a while for it but was cleared in the end. Needless to say he's not too happy to go back ever again and isn't only one I know who feels same.
Everywhere around the track aggressive driving was happening back then. Only thing preventing it today is traffic standing still at constant stau. Its small miracle more accidents do not happen in the area let alone track itself. Few times I've been back later has seemed only worse every year.
Witnessed accident outside track on intersection next to long straight down from tourist drive roundabout. UK XK120 roadster was hit while standing still waiting in T junction to turn to under track tunnel. Three bikers were coming downhill way too fast. Fastest managed to take flight into roadside bushes and helicopter flight to hospital. We gave statements to police on the spot. Newer heard anything more about it so I think Jag driver got away from it like he should have even though bikers blamed him on the spot.
Also saw nasty accident on another trip on track when biker went off, hit guardrail and was frown back partly to the track. Friend came to than blind corner only seconds later and hit unconscious biker straight to helmet at about 80kph I think. Friend was in real trouble for a while for it but was cleared in the end. Needless to say he's not too happy to go back ever again and isn't only one I know who feels same.
Everywhere around the track aggressive driving was happening back then. Only thing preventing it today is traffic standing still at constant stau. Its small miracle more accidents do not happen in the area let alone track itself. Few times I've been back later has seemed only worse every year.
Chunkychucky said:
PRO5T said:
Then me and Steve (FA57 DAD if you remember) doing almost one weekend a month from 2009 onwards I seem to remember-our R26.R’s, his GTR or 997 RS.
Reminds me of my last trip out in 2017, decided to rent a Swift Sport from R4R and came across an orange 997.1 GT3RS registered 'FA51DAD' on one of my laps - fortunately pulled over at Hatzenbach to let me by, it did pray on my mind though the risk of taking something that expensive on track during TF with nutters like me about... When I first went to the ring 15+ years ago speeds were considerably slower. The Daddy was the 996 GT3, sometimes with a proud 'sub-8' sticker. Now we have BTG times of sub 7 minutes! Going 1 whole minute faster is a quantum leap in performance, but it's certainly to the detriment of genuine TF tourists.
I've remarked in the past that purpose built track cars (in effect race cars) are now the norm, and I'm very, very sceptical that they're all genuine TUV cars. Bent TUV anyone?
I've remarked in the past that purpose built track cars (in effect race cars) are now the norm, and I'm very, very sceptical that they're all genuine TUV cars. Bent TUV anyone?
Went once in 2011 in my Chim - did a sighting lap with a mate who had quite a few laps under his belt and then another two laps on my own.
Quickly realised that I was out of both my comfort and more importantly, my ability zone. Didn’t bother using the other two(?) laps on my ticket. Granted, I wasn’t in the most appropriate car though!
As a result, I’ve never really had much of an inclination to return as I have a far greater awareness of my own mortality these days and reading that it appears to have gone downhill in terms of the kind of people going does little to change my mind.
I did enjoy wandering round the car park though
Quickly realised that I was out of both my comfort and more importantly, my ability zone. Didn’t bother using the other two(?) laps on my ticket. Granted, I wasn’t in the most appropriate car though!
As a result, I’ve never really had much of an inclination to return as I have a far greater awareness of my own mortality these days and reading that it appears to have gone downhill in terms of the kind of people going does little to change my mind.
I did enjoy wandering round the car park though
OldSchoolSmudger said:
WeirdNeville said:
I don't know who was driving this car at the time but it was being driven aggressively (albeit slowly) just trying to get to one of the three gates over the weekend. Stood out like a sore thumb On another note, the surrounding roads seemed much less busy with the normal brits abroad type however that could be due to the festival having put up prices and deterred people from the weekend. There was a massive police presence compared to normal - again this might have been due to the festival. 2 red flags with a gap of about 15 mins max in between on the Saturday PM and similar again on the Sunday. Weather was spot on though and the lapping in the morning (particularly the Sunday first thing) was amazing!
Wednesday 5th: wet and therefore quiet.
Thursday 6th: reasonable traffic
Friday 7th: getting busier.
Saturday 8th: despite not heavy traffic, everywhere was quite busy with the youtube and insta crowd, There were also a lot of yellows and reds and a large contingents of Brits including UK BMW asian drivers who didn't give a crap about anyone. They went round the car park in the wrong direction, parked in the motorcycle only section (in the middle) and some removed their number plates because of issue they were having on track with other drivers. Police needed to control the traffic at the roundabout because it was so busy.
Sunday 9th: Started off quiet, got busier and then quieter again. Almost perfect. especially as the UK BMW asian drivers had gone home.
Thursday 6th: reasonable traffic
Friday 7th: getting busier.
Saturday 8th: despite not heavy traffic, everywhere was quite busy with the youtube and insta crowd, There were also a lot of yellows and reds and a large contingents of Brits including UK BMW asian drivers who didn't give a crap about anyone. They went round the car park in the wrong direction, parked in the motorcycle only section (in the middle) and some removed their number plates because of issue they were having on track with other drivers. Police needed to control the traffic at the roundabout because it was so busy.
Sunday 9th: Started off quiet, got busier and then quieter again. Almost perfect. especially as the UK BMW asian drivers had gone home.
Edited by OldSchoolSmudger on Monday 10th June 22:03
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