Bikers on the passes...
Discussion
I don't want this to come across as excessively anti-biker as I'm really not. I come from a bike-racing family with great grandfather and great uncle riding works-supplied machines and competing around Europe. If a bike wants to get past I will position myself and use indication to help when safe (and get lots of thanks for doing so, which is nice) But on the passes this weekend there were hundreds of them (many on blue L plates) and a decent number were making safe progress difficult. So taking the 'think bike' message for motorists here is my contribution to 'think sportscar' for bikers who stumble this way:
Idea 1 - tens of bikers sitting in a tightly knit group 50m long is harder to pass on a twisty road than a set of slipstreaming dutch caravaners. Please leave some space to let me get back in without forcing you to brake (I don't have your level of all-round visibility!)
Idea 2 - don't sit metres away from my rear looking for a place to pass. I have brakes on four wheels, and not all car brakes are created equally. You also have a reaction time - account for it.
Idea 3 - don't go around blind corners in the middle of the road with your body leaning across the opposite lane. Fortunately I was schooled in the John Lyons 'use your horn to warn of your presence' school of driving. Thanks to those who waved to show appreciation as they wobbled back to their own side
Idea 4 - when a car who has caught you is trying to pass don't try and out-drag them, especially when a fellow biker is coming the other way.
Idea 5 - don't think that all oncoming traffic is as high as a Range Rover. Long grass can be like a high hedge hiding a sportscar.
Idea 6 - cars can be cornering faster than you think. Just because hairpins mean you have to slow down to walking-pace doesn't mean we all have to. Just because I will go at a pace where I can stop myself on my side in the distance I can see doesn't mean that I want to have to to do this to avoid a biker coming straight at me on the wrong side.
Sorry for the rant but I had far too many occasions this weekend where application of the above would have increased overall enjoyment.
Idea 1 - tens of bikers sitting in a tightly knit group 50m long is harder to pass on a twisty road than a set of slipstreaming dutch caravaners. Please leave some space to let me get back in without forcing you to brake (I don't have your level of all-round visibility!)
Idea 2 - don't sit metres away from my rear looking for a place to pass. I have brakes on four wheels, and not all car brakes are created equally. You also have a reaction time - account for it.
Idea 3 - don't go around blind corners in the middle of the road with your body leaning across the opposite lane. Fortunately I was schooled in the John Lyons 'use your horn to warn of your presence' school of driving. Thanks to those who waved to show appreciation as they wobbled back to their own side
Idea 4 - when a car who has caught you is trying to pass don't try and out-drag them, especially when a fellow biker is coming the other way.
Idea 5 - don't think that all oncoming traffic is as high as a Range Rover. Long grass can be like a high hedge hiding a sportscar.
Idea 6 - cars can be cornering faster than you think. Just because hairpins mean you have to slow down to walking-pace doesn't mean we all have to. Just because I will go at a pace where I can stop myself on my side in the distance I can see doesn't mean that I want to have to to do this to avoid a biker coming straight at me on the wrong side.
Sorry for the rant but I had far too many occasions this weekend where application of the above would have increased overall enjoyment.
I remember a couple of years ago driving over a pass to Graubunden (don't remember which one) in a series of blind twisties I found myself face to face with a biker in the middle of the road leaning in my lane, riding at an insane speed followed at least 5 other bikers going at the same speed and at max 3 meters in between each of them. One instant I thought he and the others where heading in a straight line for my side of the car 
to commit suicide and be splatted on the screen (like the tens of bugs already on there) Closed my eye a fraction of a second (instant reflex) and they had all passed. All the passengers in the car changed colour because everything went by so fast nobody realised that we had been a fraction away from a very serious accident.... 
to commit suicide and be splatted on the screen (like the tens of bugs already on there) Closed my eye a fraction of a second (instant reflex) and they had all passed. All the passengers in the car changed colour because everything went by so fast nobody realised that we had been a fraction away from a very serious accident.... You think it's bad in Switzerland? You should go to the black forest on a sunny weekend. If the lunatic bikers aren't in the mountains, you'll definately find them and all their suicidal mates in the black forest. I stopped counting the amount of times I nearly had a head-on collision with a biker that came through a corner on my side of the road.
What troubles me about such bikers is the ignorance (arrogance would be fitting too) on their part in thinking they're the quickest on the road. On a straight line, they very well may be, but I at numerous occasions, I was forced to follow a biker through a twisty narrow road with not even a single effort on his part to let me pass. Kind of disturbing really, since IMO, a biker above all should be able to relate to the fact that there are other people that are not on bikes that drive for the enjoyment of it too.
Two occasions come to mind:
1.)
Once in the black forest on a stretch of road that was used for hillclimbs a few years ago called Schauinsland (connecting Todtnau and Freiburg) I was there with a few mates. This road is normally prohibited for bikers on weekends because of the amount of death accidents, but on this particular day, it was a wednesday (1st august, so public holiday in switzerland) and open for all. We made our way down the twisty road that was frequented by lots of bikers and a few tourists here and there. At some point, on a stretch of straight of about 500 meters, I come driving down only to see a tourist in a smallish car whos on their way up and a gang of about 8 bikers behind all about to overtake him. Anticipating that the entire group of bikers underestimated my speed coming down and the necessary room available between our cars (or simply not looking at all), I started to brake like hell, flashing my lights at the same time. It didn't help.
At some point, as I passed the tourist car, I was driving at the outter edge of my road praying it would be enough to accomondate at least two bikers who were between my car and the tourists as they were just overtaking.
2.)
I took a trip up to Stelvio last year and given how twisty the upper section is (above the tree line) I was taking the pass quite slowly. Later further down, as I was coming into the woods, I was looking for a good opportunity to stop and take a few pictures, so was driving well below what my car would be capable of doing. Lucky I was driving that slow - as coming around a corner, I had a biker on my side of the road, nearly missing me by less than a meter. To think I could have been driving a lot quicker (and I was very slow) through those corners and I know he wouldn't have made it through that corner.
Makes me sick to the stomach. :S
What troubles me about such bikers is the ignorance (arrogance would be fitting too) on their part in thinking they're the quickest on the road. On a straight line, they very well may be, but I at numerous occasions, I was forced to follow a biker through a twisty narrow road with not even a single effort on his part to let me pass. Kind of disturbing really, since IMO, a biker above all should be able to relate to the fact that there are other people that are not on bikes that drive for the enjoyment of it too.
Two occasions come to mind:
1.)
Once in the black forest on a stretch of road that was used for hillclimbs a few years ago called Schauinsland (connecting Todtnau and Freiburg) I was there with a few mates. This road is normally prohibited for bikers on weekends because of the amount of death accidents, but on this particular day, it was a wednesday (1st august, so public holiday in switzerland) and open for all. We made our way down the twisty road that was frequented by lots of bikers and a few tourists here and there. At some point, on a stretch of straight of about 500 meters, I come driving down only to see a tourist in a smallish car whos on their way up and a gang of about 8 bikers behind all about to overtake him. Anticipating that the entire group of bikers underestimated my speed coming down and the necessary room available between our cars (or simply not looking at all), I started to brake like hell, flashing my lights at the same time. It didn't help.
At some point, as I passed the tourist car, I was driving at the outter edge of my road praying it would be enough to accomondate at least two bikers who were between my car and the tourists as they were just overtaking.
2.)
I took a trip up to Stelvio last year and given how twisty the upper section is (above the tree line) I was taking the pass quite slowly. Later further down, as I was coming into the woods, I was looking for a good opportunity to stop and take a few pictures, so was driving well below what my car would be capable of doing. Lucky I was driving that slow - as coming around a corner, I had a biker on my side of the road, nearly missing me by less than a meter. To think I could have been driving a lot quicker (and I was very slow) through those corners and I know he wouldn't have made it through that corner.
Makes me sick to the stomach. :S
Edited by Phil-CH on Wednesday 26th May 09:00
chandrew said:
...I don't have your level of all-round visibility!...
No. You have more. Helmets cut down the field of vision substatially.A well-ridden bike can do amazing things at speeds that a normal car driver - even a good driver - would find hard to credit (see Ultima's post). You might think that a lot of what bikers do looks crazy and impossible, but from behind the handlebars, there's a lot more available than you'd think.
I do however sympathise with those of you meeting d
heads on corners who think they can ride and can't. I intend spending some time in the twisties, so I shall keep a sharp eye out for the bikers with more confidence than ability.Oh, and don't worry about pulling in when overtaking a load of bikers, they should be able to stop a LOT faster than you can, so they will get out of the way. And if they don't, damage from their head, bike or various body parts to the side of your car can usually be buffed out with a bit of T-cut.
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