Hi - some not unusual questions

[Jazz Machine]

Hi all Swiss based PHers!

I'm pretty new out here, based in Nyon for those who are about and fancy a pint!

Couple of questions regarding driving here, as I am in the process ofbuying a car (an st220 I expect) -

I want to buy a UK car as it's so much cheaper, but, can I get away with being RHD? Or do people tend find being RHD as problematic on a car that will be driven regularly?

Also, in the winter (being a big snowboarding fan) will I be fine on the whole with front wheel drive in the snow? or is 4wd a must? (in which case Iwill have to buy something that isn't as fun as an st220!).

Otherwise, as I say, am looking to get to know a few people out here so if you fancy a pint....

Cheers,

Rik

[smilerbaker]

Jazz Machine said:

Hi all Swiss based PHers!

I'm pretty new out here, based in Nyon for those who are about and fancy a pint!

Couple of questions regarding driving here, as I am in the process ofbuying a car (an st220 I expect) -

I want to buy a UK car as it's so much cheaper, but, can I get away with being RHD? Or do people tend find being RHD as problematic on a car that will be driven regularly?

Also, in the winter (being a big snowboarding fan) will I be fine on the whole with front wheel drive in the snow? or is 4wd a must? (in which case Iwill have to buy something that isn't as fun as an st220!).

Otherwise, as I say, am looking to get to know a few people out here so if you fancy a pint....

Cheers,

Rik

Hi,

RHD is fine, you get funny looks from the locals, but thats about it. You can only keep an non swissy registered car here for 12 months, after that you need to register it here, otherwise you may have problems with locals, police, getting back across the boarder, thats the offical line anyway, our uk car was here quite a bit longer then that and we had no problems.

You don't need a 4x4 for winter, but you will need winter tyres, also if the snow is heavy they wont let you drive up the mountain unless you have a 4x4 or snow chains fitted so its upto you really, snow chains are a PITA.

if your quick there is a mini meet this weekend nearish zurich, I'm sure if you can make it to zurich way someone will pick be able to pick you up

any other questions just pm or post em up here

[abels]

Jazz Machine said:

Hi all Swiss based PHers!

I'm pretty new out here, based in Nyon for those who are about and fancy a pint!

Couple of questions regarding driving here, as I am in the process ofbuying a car (an st220 I expect) -

I want to buy a UK car as it's so much cheaper, but, can I get away with being RHD? Or do people tend find being RHD as problematic on a car that will be driven regularly?

Also, in the winter (being a big snowboarding fan) will I be fine on the whole with front wheel drive in the snow? or is 4wd a must? (in which case Iwill have to buy something that isn't as fun as an st220!).

Otherwise, as I say, am looking to get to know a few people out here so if you fancy a pint....

Cheers,

Rik

Hi Rik,

First of all welcome!

With regards to driving a RHD car in Switzerland, it's not too bad. It can just be a little annoying for parking entrances etc. Are you looking at registering the car in Switzerland or just keeping it on UK plates? There are a few threads on this forum where people have registered their UK cars here in Switzerland. It maybe worth having a read through.
FWD v 4WD. Obviously 4WD will quite often make things easier. But with a good set of winter tyres I have never had any issues with FWD or RWD, you just have to adapt your driving style for the conditions.
Another thing to note is, although cars are cheaper in the UK at the moment the Swiss cars to tend to hold their value quite well.

It may be a bit of a trek. But there is a Swiss PH meet this weekend if you are interested?

Edited by abels on Wednesday 6th May 13:41

[smilerbaker]

oh forgot to add, if you buy a car in the uk AFTER you get your permit here they will charge you import duty and tax if you try to register it here, thats not on the UK value, thats in the SWISS value, eg our zs180 is worth max 2.5k in the uk, the same car here they valued at over 10k chf !!!! so we had to pay the tax's etc on a 10k chf car

[Jazz Machine]

Wow cheers for the replies so quickly!

Well in reply to a couple of points made: will go for winter tyres and chains I think - if I can avoid getting a 4x4 I most surely will! The ST220 I think is the car for me, practical, comfortable, not slow and cheap at the moment.

My plans are actually to keep the car here roughly a year whilst I settle down, hence am happy to use UK plates in the meantime... and with the way things are working out with starting work etc... I should be avoiding the import duty if I then register it in a years time. Otherwise, I may well buy something a bit nicer in a years time anyway when I have greater funds and security.

Glad to hear peoples opinions on the RHD issue, it rather eases my mind on that one too.

Lastly, cheers for the invite to Zurich this weekend, will try to make it up if I can though will most likely be difficult this weekend as I think I am taken by meetings on friday and sat.

cheers and looking forward to meeting people at some point,

Rik

[smilerbaker]

I just looked up where Nyon is, thats a bit of a trek to zurich lol.

They take the first date on your permit, its about the only time they include L permits in there calculations too, so if you or your company have applied for a permit you'll be stuffed.

If your not on an L permit you can lease a car here quite cheaply, we just leased a brand new suzuki swift 4x4 with just about all the options fitted for 297chf per month.

[Jazz Machine]

ouch well I better buy the car very quickly then before the company sends off for the permit!

Edited by Jazz Machine on Wednesday 6th May 14:16

[smilerbaker]

here is another good site on all things swiss

http://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php

although it does seem to have its fair share of idiots

[AndrewD]

smilerbaker said:

although it does seem to have its fair share of idiots

[Jazz Machine]

haha I've had a look... some nice random topics... I think I will stay on here. Cars are much more interesting.

[chandrew]

As mentioned you'll certainly survive with a FWD car on winter tyres, but if you're in Nyon and plan to be spending most winter weekends up in the mountains I would seriously think about 4WD. You'll probably be in the French Alps at the other side of the lake and I don't think the French are quite as quick as the Swiss at clearing the roads but they do get the police out to do checks and force people to put on chains (unless you're in a 4WD car). Naturally you're most likely to need to do this when it's 10 below and dark

There are a lot of cars with 4WD that are available here that you don't get in the UK. BMW, Mercedes, VW all make saloon / estates etc with 4WD. Some manufacturers, e.g. Subaru, sell cars significantly cheaper here than in the UK, though the current exchange rate might have wiped out some of that advantage. The down side if your buying second hand is that 4WD cars tend to hold their value better than the equivalent 2WD version.

A final option that might be interesting is that you can order a LHD car in the UK and bring it in. You can take off the UK VAT but then have to pay import and VAT charges here. I'm in the process of doing this and am looking at about 20-25% saving, mainly due to the exchange rate. I'm using an import agent in Geneva to do all the dealing with authorities etc. but you could do it yourself.

To look at second hand cars here try www.autoscout.ch

[Jazz Machine]

Thank you - very informative. As it happens most of my winter mountain journeys will be in Switzerland for Verbier, Champery and onr or two others... really though it's a case of cost of the car which relegates me to 2wd.

Unless I was to get a 4x4 (and I really want to avoid them as I also want a car I will enjoy too) the saloon/estate 4wd cars all seem a a good bit more pricey than the 2wd ford (which fullfills every other criteria of mine nicely) if I am to get something with reasonable but not high age and mileage on it.

Am also buying fom the UK because it is so much cheaper 2nd hand with current exchange rates, even the more common 4wd cars in switzerland. That and with my current state of not 100% stability, I think it better to spend a lot less now and buy again in a years time if it comes to it...

Quite curious about that import saving you are making though. Where does one pick up a LHD 2nd hand car in the UK does anybody know?

[smilerbaker]

lots of LHD places in the uk, just type LHD into autotrader or ebay, but with the pound so weak a lot of lhd cars and being exported back out of the UK, a few years ago a LHD car in the uk cost peanuts, now a lot of them are more then the RHD version.

Do you know what permit you'll be getting yet? you could just lease a car overhere, or better still take over someone who is leaving lease, they pop up every now and then on the english forum website.

[chandrew]

Hi, I don't think you'll find much discount by getting a LHD car second hand in the UK - the dealers will be raising the prices so to make more profit from buyers with Euros etc. There are discounts with new cars as they're often priced the same as RHD UK cars.

If you're off to Verbier then you're probably OK with a FWD car as the road gets cleared quickly. When I was in Geneva I was going to Flaine and that road took several hours to get cleared. In fact we chose our Forester because it could get 4 adults and their ski kit up to the slopes over fresh snow and therefore beat the rest to the new powder. The extra height has come in useful as it stops snow building up infront of the bumper but it still handles OK.

Most people I know who go skiing regularly drive something with 4WD often after having a few bad experiences. Good winter tyres do make the biggest difference and I'm certainly not saying that FWD won't be perfect in most instances. The second hand prices of 4WD cars (look at the differences between a BMW 330i and 330xi) reflect the market demand in Switzerland for these cars. You could view this as a collective wisdom.

If you look at the threads here about importing UK cars and the charges / conversion that needs doing and are happy that you're buying a car which you might well return to sell in the UK after the year it sounds a good plan. Only you'll know, after a season going up to the slopes, whether the occasional inconveniences (putting chains on in the dark, having to dig your car out of a car-park) are less than thhe benefit from the cash-saving you'll make getting a FWD car.

[madou]

chandrew said:

Hi, I don't think you'll find much discount by getting a LHD car second hand in the UK - the dealers will be raising the prices so to make more profit from buyers with Euros etc. There are discounts with new cars as they're often priced the same as RHD UK cars.

If you're off to Verbier then you're probably OK with a FWD car as the road gets cleared quickly. When I was in Geneva I was going to Flaine and that road took several hours to get cleared. In fact we chose our Forester because it could get 4 adults and their ski kit up to the slopes over fresh snow and therefore beat the rest to the new powder. The extra height has come in useful as it stops snow building up infront of the bumper but it still handles OK.

Most people I know who go skiing regularly drive something with 4WD often after having a few bad experiences. Good winter tyres do make the biggest difference and I'm certainly not saying that FWD won't be perfect in most instances. The second hand prices of 4WD cars (look at the differences between a BMW 330i and 330xi) reflect the market demand in Switzerland for these cars. You could view this as a collective wisdom.

If you look at the threads here about importing UK cars and the charges / conversion that needs doing and are happy that you're buying a car which you might well return to sell in the UK after the year it sounds a good plan. Only you'll know, after a season going up to the slopes, whether the occasional inconveniences (putting chains on in the dark, having to dig your car out of a car-park) are less than thhe benefit from the cash-saving you'll make getting a FWD car.

Good advice. So far I have been happy with my RHD BMW E39 ( RWD, no limited slip differential ) on good winter tyres, because I accept a little "fish tailing" before the electronics cut in, or having to reverse and have another run at an incline on the very few occasions when I get stuck. I never had to use chains so far. I think good winter tyres and a bit of thought will get you a long way

[UltimaCH]

madou said:

Good advice. So far I have been happy with my RHD BMW E39 ( RWD, no limited slip differential ) on good winter tyres, because I accept a little "fish tailing" before the electronics cut in, or having to reverse and have another run at an incline on the very few occasions when I get stuck. I never had to use chains so far. I think good winter tyres and a bit of thought will get you a long way

I totally agree, good snow tyres and chains in the boot for backup are mostly sufficient, not unless you are driving during the night on smaller roads as they are not cleaned before 5-6 am. Motorways are on a 24h24h basis. Put chains on once in Germany to climb a very steep hill, then found the Singen Stuttgart motorway with 20cm fresh powder snow, no traffic and driving at 150km+ very light fingertips holding the steering and smooth movements. That was a fantastic feeling.

[Whitean3]

There is also a LHD section in the PH classifieds- you might find something affordable there too- e.g a RWD BMW or Merc maybe would be plenty of fun in the snow.

[Jazz Machine]

Yes there does seem to be a certain amount of sense to the collective wisdom... though at the moment it seems the budget wont stretch to it whilst also having a fun car to drive, that also works as a comfortable exec if it has to.... hence i have been looking at the Mondeo ST220.

As for snow driving... as long as I am relatively safe I am happy, dont need fun in the snow lol. Happy to wait for dry summer roads for fun By the sounds of it from the majority of replies the FWD will be safe enough in the snow and so that will do me fine.

so.... Anyone got an ST220 for sale?

[madou]

Jazz Machine said:

Yes there does seem to be a certain amount of sense to the collective wisdom... though at the moment it seems the budget wont stretch to it whilst also having a fun car to drive, that also works as a comfortable exec if it has to.... hence i have been looking at the Mondeo ST220

If you really want to blend in get a Subaru Legacy

[Jazz Machine]

Ah yes have had a look at them, pretty nice cars, unfortunately to get a car with the age and mileage I am after, they punch in a good bit more expensive... at least what I have seen.