what would you miss the most
Discussion
housen said:
if you left switzerland for england ?
i thought this may be a different take on ''whats it like living in switzerland''
would love to hear your thoughts as i may be moving over
Difficult to know what I would miss most so here is a list in no particular order...i thought this may be a different take on ''whats it like living in switzerland''
would love to hear your thoughts as i may be moving over
The countryside. Never get tired of how beautiful it is here.
Cleanliness: cliché but true. Not just the country but also the people. Almost everyone seems to make an effort when going outside (so nobody shopping in their nighties)
Tagesschau/Tagesanzeiger/quality of reporting and debate: Journalism just seems so much more even-handed, serious and interesting (and not 99% about trivial items and/or celebrities)
Great roads of course!
The tax rate.
Direct democracy, constitution and willingness of local people to get involved and take responsibility for their own communities.
Quality of food and drink.
Being in the center of Europe
The fact that Swiss people in general believe in personal responsibility and look to development themselves through education and training
Living and working in more than one language
Friends here
Quality of housing (warm, draft-free, well-finished)
Public transport (not that we use it much since we moved from Zurich but we loved the trams whilst there)
Of course, I could also give you a list of stuff we wouldn't miss but you didn't ask for that
We are thinking of returning to the UK after 5years here, so have been weighing up the pros and cons for a while.
Will miss from Switzerland:-
Public transport and cost (half fare card is exactly that) and my daily bus for 5 years has only been late twice (no really!)
Super warm housing even when it is -17C outside
Hospitals and medical care (we just had our twins born here and the Doctors/Nurses have been amazing)
Great Roads
Tax Rate
Pay Rate
Exchange Rate
Mountain Views
Mountain Bike trails
Not overly populated so plenty of places to go without queueing for years
No chavs (all teenagers seen unbelievably well behaved).
Everyone is super slim and healthy (although lots of smokers which is weird).
Anything to do with government (driving licence, visa etc) is done super quick (might just be Zug though)
Being able to pop over to France, Germany, Italy
Zurich Airport - is there a nicer calmer airport in the world?
Everyone seems to drive like they stole it (not many slow granny drivers here)
Exotic cars - how many Ferraris can you see in one day!
Clean air - no rain or wind
Will miss from Switzerland:-
Public transport and cost (half fare card is exactly that) and my daily bus for 5 years has only been late twice (no really!)
Super warm housing even when it is -17C outside
Hospitals and medical care (we just had our twins born here and the Doctors/Nurses have been amazing)
Great Roads
Tax Rate
Pay Rate
Exchange Rate
Mountain Views
Mountain Bike trails
Not overly populated so plenty of places to go without queueing for years
No chavs (all teenagers seen unbelievably well behaved).
Everyone is super slim and healthy (although lots of smokers which is weird).
Anything to do with government (driving licence, visa etc) is done super quick (might just be Zug though)
Being able to pop over to France, Germany, Italy
Zurich Airport - is there a nicer calmer airport in the world?
Everyone seems to drive like they stole it (not many slow granny drivers here)
Exotic cars - how many Ferraris can you see in one day!
Clean air - no rain or wind
WelshBoyo said:
We are thinking of returning to the UK after 5years here, so have been weighing up the pros and cons for a while.
Will miss from Switzerland:-
Public transport and cost (half fare card is exactly that) and my daily bus for 5 years has only been late twice (no really!)
Super warm housing even when it is -17C outside
Hospitals and medical care (we just had our twins born here and the Doctors/Nurses have been amazing)
Great Roads
Tax Rate
Pay Rate
Exchange Rate
Mountain Views
Mountain Bike trails
Not overly populated so plenty of places to go without queueing for years
No chavs (all teenagers seen unbelievably well behaved).
Everyone is super slim and healthy (although lots of smokers which is weird).
Anything to do with government (driving licence, visa etc) is done super quick (might just be Zug though)
Being able to pop over to France, Germany, Italy
Zurich Airport - is there a nicer calmer airport in the world?
Everyone seems to drive like they stole it (not many slow granny drivers here)
Exotic cars - how many Ferraris can you see in one day!
Clean air - no rain or wind
sounds great !Will miss from Switzerland:-
Public transport and cost (half fare card is exactly that) and my daily bus for 5 years has only been late twice (no really!)
Super warm housing even when it is -17C outside
Hospitals and medical care (we just had our twins born here and the Doctors/Nurses have been amazing)
Great Roads
Tax Rate
Pay Rate
Exchange Rate
Mountain Views
Mountain Bike trails
Not overly populated so plenty of places to go without queueing for years
No chavs (all teenagers seen unbelievably well behaved).
Everyone is super slim and healthy (although lots of smokers which is weird).
Anything to do with government (driving licence, visa etc) is done super quick (might just be Zug though)
Being able to pop over to France, Germany, Italy
Zurich Airport - is there a nicer calmer airport in the world?
Everyone seems to drive like they stole it (not many slow granny drivers here)
Exotic cars - how many Ferraris can you see in one day!
Clean air - no rain or wind
again that sums it up for me
how is the decision going ?
housen said:
sounds great !
again that sums it up for me
how is the decision going ?
The UK is looking a better decision if things can be arranged how we want them. We have really enjoyed our time here in Switzerland a lot, but a build up of events has put a different perspective on why we are really here.again that sums it up for me
how is the decision going ?
If I went back in time, moving to Switzerland was a brilliant idea and I would definately do it again without a moments hesitation.
housen said:
sounds good to me as i expected
the real draw in my mind is the potential to get up on a sunny sunday get in my 1m (not got the 1m either yet) and go for a fantastic drive in the mountains
is this easily done ?
Depending upon where you live, but generally yes. Unfortunately, however early you get up the police get there before you (and they hide!)....so care required.the real draw in my mind is the potential to get up on a sunny sunday get in my 1m (not got the 1m either yet) and go for a fantastic drive in the mountains
is this easily done ?
(that would have been on the negative list!)
Pay rate
Tax rate
Public transport
Stunning weather. I find experiencing -15 and snowing hard just as enjoyable and life enhancing as 20 degrees in early March.
Laughing at the blatent racism and "dont give a damn about it" attitude of the Swiss.
Laughing at the hysterical cries of Zurich types going "We're not German!!!"
Laughing at the Geneva tapes going "We're not French!"
Tax rate
Public transport
Stunning weather. I find experiencing -15 and snowing hard just as enjoyable and life enhancing as 20 degrees in early March.
Laughing at the blatent racism and "dont give a damn about it" attitude of the Swiss.
Laughing at the hysterical cries of Zurich types going "We're not German!!!"
Laughing at the Geneva tapes going "We're not French!"
Interesting thread and rather timely ....
We (my dad) are just in the process of giving up our flat in Nyon after 3 years.
Im a little sad as it has proved to be fabulous for my son (10) and I to use as a ski base a couple of times a year (xmas and half term) and is also lovely around the lake during summer.
The sprint up the mountain sadly only in winter and a cayenne proved to be fun and should have been done in summer as well really.
Restaurants on the whole seem fine.
I see you guys state pay and tax as plus points, I was never working there but unless you got paid in swissy surely youve had a 60% or more pay cut in recent years, and even that must have been linked to sterling if coming from the UK ?
Tax is a personal issue and depends on many factors including which route your muppet of an accountant sent you down at the start.
In 12 years of visiting Geneva for the car show and in recent years staying in and around Geneva / Nyon area I have only ever seen the odd veyron and ferrari parked outside the top hotels for show, I think I can hand on heart say the swiss have little or no interest in cars whatsoever.
Going slightly off topic sorry, I do like the place, but from what I have seen the place and the people are not the fun capital of the world.
We (my dad) are just in the process of giving up our flat in Nyon after 3 years.
Im a little sad as it has proved to be fabulous for my son (10) and I to use as a ski base a couple of times a year (xmas and half term) and is also lovely around the lake during summer.
The sprint up the mountain sadly only in winter and a cayenne proved to be fun and should have been done in summer as well really.
Restaurants on the whole seem fine.
I see you guys state pay and tax as plus points, I was never working there but unless you got paid in swissy surely youve had a 60% or more pay cut in recent years, and even that must have been linked to sterling if coming from the UK ?
Tax is a personal issue and depends on many factors including which route your muppet of an accountant sent you down at the start.
In 12 years of visiting Geneva for the car show and in recent years staying in and around Geneva / Nyon area I have only ever seen the odd veyron and ferrari parked outside the top hotels for show, I think I can hand on heart say the swiss have little or no interest in cars whatsoever.
Going slightly off topic sorry, I do like the place, but from what I have seen the place and the people are not the fun capital of the world.
TISPKJ said:
In 12 years of visiting Geneva for the car show and in recent years staying in and around Geneva / Nyon area I have only ever seen the odd veyron and ferrari parked outside the top hotels for show, I think I can hand on heart say the swiss have little or no interest in cars whatsoever.
I think you've been unlucky - the Swiss are passionate about their cars and the stats back this up. A tiny example - there were 9 Aston One-77s registered in Switzerland last year, 7 rumour has it in Geneva. Not bad for a town with a population about the same size as Preston. Overall they bought 1.1m new cars last year compared to 2m in the UK (which has almost 8x the population). If you're over in the winter however you'll miss most - few super cars are used outside the summer.As for the exchange rate for me it's mixed. As a business owner who predominately exports it's a pain, but I've countered it as much as possible by shifting costs to USD / EUR / GBP. If you're earning CHF I suspect you're taking advantage of it by shopping over the borders. We pretty much halve our shopping bill by driving the 20 minutes to Konstanz.
As for other things I love about Switzerland, in addition to the items others mentioned above:
The trains. I have a GA and it's a really nice way of travelling. Even the food in the restaurant cars is decent, you can do some proper work etc. Oh, and for the most part they work and you get a seat. (and you can take the train to Paris, Milan etc.)
That they manage to provide better public services (cleaning, repairs etc.) at lower tax rates
The schooling. OK so it takes some time to learn the system but it's great quality and we've found them flexible and supportive.
You can have a reasonable conversation with your tax authorities. I love the fact that some Swiss people overpay tax because they get better interest rates than at the bank.
The banks. Ok so it costs but pricing is transparent, the service is decent and the technology is good.
Setting up and running a business is straightforward.
The folks in our village look out for each other. There's a real community feel.
There's a level of trust - I can buy something in the Volg and agree to pay later (useful as there's no village cash point).
Healthcare - expensive but brilliant quality and even the cantonal hospital will work around your diary for operations etc - no long waits.
Museums / galleries etc. - as good as anywhere in the world.
I doubt we'll leave. Yes, some things are annoying but there's a good reason why Swiss cities feature high on the 'quality of life' indexes.
TISPKJ said:
Interesting thread and rather timely ....
I see you guys state pay and tax as plus points, I was never working there but unless you got paid in swissy surely youve had a 60% or more pay cut in recent years, and even that must have been linked to sterling if coming from the UK ?
Tax is a personal issue and depends on many factors including which route your muppet of an accountant sent you down at the start.
In 12 years of visiting Geneva for the car show and in recent years staying in and around Geneva / Nyon area I have only ever seen the odd veyron and ferrari parked outside the top hotels for show, I think I can hand on heart say the swiss have little or no interest in cars whatsoever.
Going slightly off topic sorry, I do like the place, but from what I have seen the place and the people are not the fun capital of the world.
Tax in Switzerland is not just dependent upon the accountant. Highly dependent upon where you live. Geneva is one of the most expensive. Rates in Schwyz, Zug, Uri etc are much lower and even for high income earners you can have an all-in rate of less than 25%. I see you guys state pay and tax as plus points, I was never working there but unless you got paid in swissy surely youve had a 60% or more pay cut in recent years, and even that must have been linked to sterling if coming from the UK ?
Tax is a personal issue and depends on many factors including which route your muppet of an accountant sent you down at the start.
In 12 years of visiting Geneva for the car show and in recent years staying in and around Geneva / Nyon area I have only ever seen the odd veyron and ferrari parked outside the top hotels for show, I think I can hand on heart say the swiss have little or no interest in cars whatsoever.
Going slightly off topic sorry, I do like the place, but from what I have seen the place and the people are not the fun capital of the world.
I can only confirm what Chandrew has said: there are lots of really nice cars in Switzerland. If you look at PH classifieds there are currently around 600 Ferraris for sale in the UK. The equivalent number in Switzerland? 760!
Your last point might be valid. When I have been to Geneva it has seemed very quiet. Zurich is much more lively. Although only in comparison to Geneva (not London)! Still, I know many, many ex-pats who came to Switzerland for a short period and have not left (or left and managed to come back). I can't think of many that chose to leave because they didn't like it.
Schnellmann said:
..actually, can't think of any who left because they didn't like it.
Schnellmann - how long have you been here? I know of quite a few people that have left as they didn't like it here, me being possible one in the next few months.PS - loving the Ferrari CS you have bought!
Like I say, as a holiday place I am going to miss it, even thought one day of taking the appartment over from pops, schools, health care, public transport, clean air etc etc fully agree top notch.
Our appartment was stunning and always warm (new build).
The tax didnt work out for us so anyone thinking to move for that reason (and lets be honest you dont go for the fresh air) should take proffessional advice.
Im basing my comments on not working by the way i.e retiring, so costs of everything at 1.2 (ok its 1.4 now)are absolutely outrageous with a sterling income. A pint of beer is £6 !!
Schnellman, your stunning car for example has just cost you double what it was in sterling a few years ago, if you had sterling income.
Dont want to change the topic to a what you wont miss, but as an example our local Auberge has just opened after 18 months closure, he still wont open on Mondays and is closed up in summer and all over xmas. The one other place in the village to eat during this period stuck to his shut wednesday and sunday routine.
Our bakers shuts saturdays, because the one a 10 minute car drive away opens saturday but shuts sunday. The 2 restaurants both shut same day midweek, need I go on .......
I agree nice place to a point, but would any of you be there if paying UK tax rates ?
Our appartment was stunning and always warm (new build).
The tax didnt work out for us so anyone thinking to move for that reason (and lets be honest you dont go for the fresh air) should take proffessional advice.
Im basing my comments on not working by the way i.e retiring, so costs of everything at 1.2 (ok its 1.4 now)are absolutely outrageous with a sterling income. A pint of beer is £6 !!
Schnellman, your stunning car for example has just cost you double what it was in sterling a few years ago, if you had sterling income.
Dont want to change the topic to a what you wont miss, but as an example our local Auberge has just opened after 18 months closure, he still wont open on Mondays and is closed up in summer and all over xmas. The one other place in the village to eat during this period stuck to his shut wednesday and sunday routine.
Our bakers shuts saturdays, because the one a 10 minute car drive away opens saturday but shuts sunday. The 2 restaurants both shut same day midweek, need I go on .......
I agree nice place to a point, but would any of you be there if paying UK tax rates ?
I would miss the weather, the seasons and the outdoor lifestyle the most.
The weather in particular as it's regulary 30C in the summer and the air is often quite dry being so far inland (hence all those wooden chalets that never rot). I've never heard of anyone complain about damp in their property.
Snow evaporates faster than it turns to slush in such condtions and it hardly ever seems to rain for long periods. When it does, more often than not it does so at night.
The seasons are quite pronounced and you just need to wait for the wind to change and then the temperatures seem to ramp up or down and stay there.
Financially, it's all rather complicated... I'm lucky enough to be on a good CHF salary and my tax rate is under 20% because I live in a village where the local tax rate is low, esp. if you have 3 kids although this ignores the cost of health insurance. However, the child benefit that we receive covers our entire familiy's medical insurance so I consider it a wash. If I was single in Geneva on this salary I would pay twice as much but If I lived in one of the ultra low tax regions I would pay quite a bit less so you need to be picky when choosing where to pitch up.
Property costs a fortune to buy and you need min 20% deposit but mortgages are cheap at the moment.
The whole system seems to balance but it's hard to really understand why when we have to pay the equivalent of £40k pa for an office junior.
Anything involving labour is generally expensive. Kindergarden makes a mockery of UK university tuition fees and unless you are used to living in Mayfair, the cost of having anything done to your home can smart. A recent quote to put in a small Velux, wooden staircase, insulate and decorate an 18m2 loft worked out at Boxster S money.
However, I would agree with the poster above that if you are living on GBP savings or income, you will struggle out here at the current exchange rate as a simple restaurant pizza and a beer is £20 and baby sitters are £10/hr [with no extras]. You can always eat in but then again, filet steak is £50/kg at the supermarket!
However, even at the current exchange rate, fuel is still cheaper over here than it is in the UK in £ terms.
The weather in particular as it's regulary 30C in the summer and the air is often quite dry being so far inland (hence all those wooden chalets that never rot). I've never heard of anyone complain about damp in their property.
Snow evaporates faster than it turns to slush in such condtions and it hardly ever seems to rain for long periods. When it does, more often than not it does so at night.
The seasons are quite pronounced and you just need to wait for the wind to change and then the temperatures seem to ramp up or down and stay there.
Financially, it's all rather complicated... I'm lucky enough to be on a good CHF salary and my tax rate is under 20% because I live in a village where the local tax rate is low, esp. if you have 3 kids although this ignores the cost of health insurance. However, the child benefit that we receive covers our entire familiy's medical insurance so I consider it a wash. If I was single in Geneva on this salary I would pay twice as much but If I lived in one of the ultra low tax regions I would pay quite a bit less so you need to be picky when choosing where to pitch up.
Property costs a fortune to buy and you need min 20% deposit but mortgages are cheap at the moment.
The whole system seems to balance but it's hard to really understand why when we have to pay the equivalent of £40k pa for an office junior.
Anything involving labour is generally expensive. Kindergarden makes a mockery of UK university tuition fees and unless you are used to living in Mayfair, the cost of having anything done to your home can smart. A recent quote to put in a small Velux, wooden staircase, insulate and decorate an 18m2 loft worked out at Boxster S money.
However, I would agree with the poster above that if you are living on GBP savings or income, you will struggle out here at the current exchange rate as a simple restaurant pizza and a beer is £20 and baby sitters are £10/hr [with no extras
]. You can always eat in but then again, filet steak is £50/kg at the supermarket!However, even at the current exchange rate, fuel is still cheaper over here than it is in the UK in £ terms.
WelshBoyo said:
Schnellmann - how long have you been here? I know of quite a few people that have left as they didn't like it here, me being possible one in the next few months.
PS - loving the Ferrari CS you have bought!
We have been here 13 years so far. PS - loving the Ferrari CS you have bought!
Switzerland certainly has its negative points and I'm sure doesn't suit everyone. There are also plenty of things we miss about the UK - proper beer, track days, sense of humour, bacon sarnies, the list goes on and on. Of course, the list of things we don't miss is also quite long too!
I'm picking up the CS on Saturday. Just serviced today, being polished tomorrow. Can't wait!
TISPKJ said:
Like I say, as a holiday place I am going to miss it, even thought one day of taking the appartment over from pops, schools, health care, public transport, clean air etc etc fully agree top notch.
Our appartment was stunning and always warm (new build).
The tax didnt work out for us so anyone thinking to move for that reason (and lets be honest you dont go for the fresh air) should take proffessional advice.
Im basing my comments on not working by the way i.e retiring, so costs of everything at 1.2 (ok its 1.4 now)are absolutely outrageous with a sterling income. A pint of beer is £6 !!
Schnellman, your stunning car for example has just cost you double what it was in sterling a few years ago, if you had sterling income.
I agree nice place to a point, but would any of you be there if paying UK tax rates ?
Costs in Switzerland are fine so long as you are on a local contract and earning Swiss Francs. Swiss salaries are much higher and taxes are generally lower. I read recently that in terms of purchasing power parity Switzerland is one of the best, if not the best, places to be (in terms of the time needed to work to buy a Big Mac). Our appartment was stunning and always warm (new build).
The tax didnt work out for us so anyone thinking to move for that reason (and lets be honest you dont go for the fresh air) should take proffessional advice.
Im basing my comments on not working by the way i.e retiring, so costs of everything at 1.2 (ok its 1.4 now)are absolutely outrageous with a sterling income. A pint of beer is £6 !!
Schnellman, your stunning car for example has just cost you double what it was in sterling a few years ago, if you had sterling income.
I agree nice place to a point, but would any of you be there if paying UK tax rates ?
I do sympathise with anyone trying to live here if you have a non-Swiss Franc source of income. I also wonder how any foreigners afford to come here on holiday.
Well of course, but why on earth would you come out to Switzerland on a non-Chf based deal? Can you do a fx equiliser job like I think Andrew was on, but straight USD or Euros or GBP? Hell no. Pay in Chuffs or Chuff off!
The whole point of going to Switzerland is to rape the financial system!
The whole point of going to Switzerland is to rape the financial system!
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