Salary Expectations

[Mazdarese]

Gents & Ladies(?)

I wonder if anyone can offer a bit of advice please. I've had a 3rd interview for a permanent job in Switzerland that I would quite fancy taking if offered it. My only concern is the money, as obviously that's why we all work, right?

I've been contracting for 6 years, reasonably successfully, so I'd obviously rather not end up worse off financially by making this move.

They've asked me to let them know my salary expectations, which I'm struggling to do without a decent understanding of the tax system over there. Can anyone give me any pointers? Maybe just loosely in terms of % that I'll end up paying?

I appreciate this is a bit vague, but any help appreciated!

[eyebeebe]

Whereabouts in Switzerland will you be living? (Not working but living, as your tax rate is based on that) and I'll dig out some rough tax data for you.

You will also need to bear in mind that the cost of living here is massively different to the UK, so you can't assume that because the exchange rate is currently CHF 1.40 per GBP that a salary of CHF 70k = GBP 50k

[Mazdarese]

eyebeebe said:

Whereabouts in Switzerland will you be living? (Not working but living, as your tax rate is based on that) and I'll dig out some rough tax data for you.

You will also need to bear in mind that the cost of living here is massively different to the UK, so you can't assume that because the exchange rate is currently CHF 1.40 per GBP that a salary of CHF 70k = GBP 50k

In the canton of Ticino (I said that in an Italian accent. ) probably. That said, I don't mind living elsewhere and commuting a short distance if it's worthwile.

So, as a rough guide, what kind of multiplier would you use on a UK salary to make it worthwile?

Appreciate your help.

[eyebeebe]

Ok so you need to download this table.
http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DFE/DC/DOC-IF/Aliquote...

If you are single then use column B, if you are married (with no kids) column C, column D if you are married with 1 kid, E married with 2 kids etc.

On top of the tax you need to allow for roughly 6-7% of your gross salary for social security and state pensions. You will also have to pay into a company pension scheme if you are over 25. Figure between 3.5% and 10% dependent upon age and the scheme in question.

That gives you your net income.

http://www.homegate.ch/en?a=default&l=default is the main property website, so will give you an idea of property prices.

Food, especially meat is ridiculously expensive here - at a standard supermarket figure paying £50 a kilo for average sirloin steak. We probably spend less on groceries than we did in the UK, but we've gone from M&S/Waitrose to Aldi/Lidl. You could go here and do a test online shop and compare it to Tesco to get an idea. Another option living in Ticino is doing your shopping in Italy, which will save a fortune, but there are limits to how much you can bring back.
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2c/start/(xcm=c...

From memory beer in Ticino is around CHF 6-7 a pint and a pizza is CHF 15. I'd guess a 3 course dinner with wine is going to set you back CHF 60 per person upwards

As this is PH www.autoscout.ch is the main car website. Cars are expensive, as is insurance.

Our electricity, phone, internet, cable cost around CHF 175 a month. Mobiles figure CHF 50 - 100 dependent on network and plan. Gym in Ticino I'd guess between CHF 50 and CHF 100 a month

As you can probably tell, it's not straight forward to give a simple multiplier, as everyone has a different lifestyle, plus Ticino is relatively cheap compared to Zürich. I believe that the checkout workers get around CHF 3,500 a month and that the average Swiss salary is around CHF 65,000 and median household income is CHF 115,000.

Anything you think I've missed, ask away...

PS It's a great place to live, especially if you are into mountain based activities.
PPS It's worth having a look at www.englishforum.ch if you haven't already. It's full of self-important tossers, but there is some good info on there. Just don't ask about salary expectations Or in fact ask anything without searching first and telling people you've tried to search. They hate lazy people (and most of them hate cars too)

Edited by eyebeebe on Wednesday 21st September 17:47

[Mazdarese]

You are a star.

eyebeebe said:

Ok so you need to download this table.
http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DFE/DC/DOC-IF/Aliquote...

If you are single then use column B, if you are married (with no kids) column C, column D if you are married with 1 kid, E married with 2 kids etc.

So, the number in the cell represents the percentage of tax per annum?

eyebeebe said:

On top of the tax you need to allow for roughly 6-7% of your gross salary for social security and state pensions. You will also have to pay into a company pension scheme if you are over 25. Figure between 3.5% and 10% dependent upon age and the scheme in question.

That gives you your net income.

Gotcha.

eyebeebe said:

http://www.homegate.ch/en?a=default&l=default is the main property website, so will give you an idea of property prices.

Food, especially meat is ridiculously expensive here - at a standard supermarket figure paying £50 a kilo for average sirloin steak. We probably spend less on groceries than we did in the UK, but we've gone from M&S/Waitrose to Aldi/Lidl. You could go here and do a test online shop and compare it to Tesco to get an idea. Another option living in Ticino is doing your shopping in Italy, which will save a fortune, but there are limits to how much you can bring back.
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2c/start/(xcm=c...

From memory beer in Ticino is around CHF 6-7 a pint and a pizza is CHF 15. I'd guess a 3 course dinner with wine is going to set you back CHF 60 per person upwards

As this is PH www.autoscout.ch is the main car website. Cars are expensive, as is insurance.

Our electricity, phone, internet, cable cost around CHF 175 a month. Mobiles figure CHF 50 - 100 dependent on network and plan. Gym in Ticino I'd guess between CHF 50 and CHF 100 a month

As you can probably tell, it's not straight forward to give a simple multiplier, as everyone has a different lifestyle, plus Ticino is relatively cheap compared to Zürich. I believe that the checkout workers get around CHF 3,500 a month and that the average Swiss salary is around CHF 65,000 and median household income is CHF 115,000.

Anything you think I've missed, ask away...

PS It's a great place to live, especially if you are into mountain based activities.

Thanks for all that, I really do appreciate it. I have a friend, ex-colleague, who works for this company already so she's advised me on food costs etc, and I believe she "pops to Italy" to do the big shop.

I'll do some sums now, because the last thing I want to do is go in too cheap and end up skint. Better to go in too high and have to negotiate down I suppose, without taking the piss obviously.

[eyebeebe]

Mazdarese said:

eyebeebe said:

Ok so you need to download this table.
http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DFE/DC/DOC-IF/Aliquote...

If you are single then use column B, if you are married (with no kids) column C, column D if you are married with 1 kid, E married with 2 kids etc.

So, the number in the cell represents the percentage of tax per annum?

Exactly. One thing to note is that if you earn over CHF 120k pa you will also have to do a tax return. Depending where you live and what deductions you have you will either have paid too much or too little and you or the tax authorities will need to make a payment. The table you are looking at is a withholding tax, based on the average person, living in the average community in the canton. Taxes for those who need to do a tax return (all Swiss, plus foreigners earning over 120k) are actually set at a community level.

[Mazdarese]

eyebeebe said:

Mazdarese said:

eyebeebe said:

Ok so you need to download this table.
http://www4.ti.ch/fileadmin/DFE/DC/DOC-IF/Aliquote...

If you are single then use column B, if you are married (with no kids) column C, column D if you are married with 1 kid, E married with 2 kids etc.

So, the number in the cell represents the percentage of tax per annum?

Exactly. One thing to note is that if you earn over CHF 120k pa you will also have to do a tax return. Depending where you live and what deductions you have you will either have paid too much or too little and you or the tax authorities will need to make a payment. The table you are looking at is a withholding tax, based on the average person, living in the average community in the canton. Taxes for those who need to do a tax return (all Swiss, plus foreigners earning over 120k) are actually set at a community level.

Wow, confusing! I'm just composing the email now and I've put a figure in, but I'm worried in case it's too low that I can't live, or too high that he'll laugh

None of the Swiss job listings seem to show a salary, always 'negotiable'!

Thanks again.

[Whitean3]

If i were you Mazda, go high with your salary expectation. Don't know what your current salary is but i would be thinking about asking for double what you currently earn, and take it from there.

[Mazdarese]

Whitean3 said:

If i were you Mazda, go high with your salary expectation. Don't know what your current salary is but i would be thinking about asking for double what you currently earn, and take it from there.

Hmm. I'm currently contracting and on a daily rate.

So I multiplied my daily rate by 5 (days in a week), then 46 (rough working weeks in a year). Then took 75% of that as my net annual pay (very rough guess at corporation tax etc).

Then, using the info above I worked out my rough take home pay as an employee in Switzerland using what I thought was a decent salary, and my Swiss take-home pay was 138% of what I take home now.

Sound like I'm going in a bit low?

[DJRC]

Maz...rough guide, if you are engineering or IT based, ask for 120k CHF. Use that as abaseline for your figures, adjust higher or lower depending on what your own figures come out as.

[WelshBoyo]

I would also look at trying to get the company to pay for your re-location and more importantly health insurance. This can be very expensive (and the basic insurance is mandatory) so if they don't add it, then I would factor this in your calculations. Also see if they will pay for temporary accommodation as finding a place to live can be a bit of a nightmare so they may have a company apartment or links with local hotels etc.

[eyebeebe]

DJRC said:

Maz...rough guide, if you are engineering or IT based, ask for 120k CHF. Use that as abaseline for your figures, adjust higher or lower depending on what your own figures come out as.

Does that neccessarily hold for Ticino? Life seems to be a bit cheaper south of the hills.

OP as pointed out, I forgot about health insurance. Figure 2-300 per adult per month. You can look on www.comparis.ch for exact premiums (again based on where you live and how much of an excess you want).

[anonymous-user]

eyebeebe said:

You will also have to pay into a company pension scheme if you are over 25. Figure between 3.5% and 10% dependent upon age and the scheme in question.

eyebeebe, does this apply in Geneva? Or only in TI? Do you know?

[Mazdarese]

Thanks for all the advice Gents. I sent the email off late last night so fingers crossed, but no response as yet. I will, of course, update the thread with any news!

[Mazdarese]

Hmm, nice Geländewagen

[Schnellmann]

You could try contacting some Swiss headhunters or employment agencies, saying you want to find a position in Switzerland. They would likely be in a good position to advise on salary expectations for someone with your skills and experience.

As others have suggested, aim high as cost of living is eye-watering. However, if you can get a well paid job it is a great place to live.

[eyebeebe]

bulldong said:

eyebeebe said:

You will also have to pay into a company pension scheme if you are over 25. Figure between 3.5% and 10% dependent upon age and the scheme in question.

eyebeebe, does this apply in Geneva? Or only in TI? Do you know?

Swiss wide as far as I know. It's called BVG in German or LPP in French. http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/831_40/index.html

Have a read here too about Pillar 2
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxatio...

[anonymous-user]

From what I understand from reading the English forum section it says it's obligatory for individuals over 24 or with salary of +20kchf. Count me out :-(. Damn, I was expecting to be able to shaft my HR woman for a nice cheque :-)

[TISPKJ]

Mazdaese, silly question but have you been there yet ?

Go for the weekend, have a few beers, a meal out with a bottle of wine, and go to the local supermarket and buy yourself a nice meal to cook at home.

Have been going on a regular basis for the last 10 years, at 2.4 swissy to the £ it was a bit expensive even in holiday mode, 2 weeks ago at 1.1 and even now pegged to the euro at 1.2 currently £ is 1.4 ish, its crazy.

[MogulBoy]

Possibly worth looking at this Swiss "Salarium".

It's a Federal website "and uses the data gathered from the Swiss Earnings Structure Survey (ESS) 2008, i.e. some 1.3 million salary data from people employed in the private sector."

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen...