my first type r (ep3)

[SteellFJ]

guys,

tomorrow i pick up my first type r, after months of looking at loads of options including focus st's and S3's, i came across a gem of an Ep3.

56 plate black with only 24k on it. needless to say i pounced on it. after a week of being fked about by the dealer i cant wait to pick it up.

now i need your help!

i want more power than the standard amount with out the expense of a supercharger, what would you guys say is the best, easiest way to sqeeeze out maybe 20-30 bhp from the k20?

i have a few friends with ST's and now putting out stupid power but i wanted to remain unique in my crowd, but i want to keep up.

thanks

fraser

[havoc]

30bhp realistically?

Hotter cams and a more liberal exhaust system, plus a good piggy-back ECU to take advantage of them and maybe raise the redline a few hundred rpm. While you're doing that you may as well fit some ex-CBR900 throttle-bodies too. All that will give you the power you're looking for, but will probably cost close-on a supercharger conversion.

'Cheaper' tuning (proper CAI, ex. manifold and sports cat) will liberate perhaps 20bhp depending on the system you pick (CAI typically 5bhp, sports cat and/or cat-back 10bhp at most, manifolds usually work best with other mods and with piggy-back ECUs and give the most scope for further tuning, but even there you'll not see much more than 10 on its own.


I'd ask the same question on one of the Type R forums - probably guys there who've done exactly what you want to do. Might be worth talking to some of the experts too - TDi, Barwell, Plans maybe?

[VtecLover]

Gruppe M air intake
Rbc intake manifold
BDL 70mm throttle body

toda exhaust manifold/Decat
toda exhaust

Mapped on Hondata Kpro.

Should give you around 240 bhp/160-170 ft lbs of torque.

[itsnotarace]

GruppeM air filter £600
Toda Racing Manifold £900
Spoon N1 catback £600
Hondata KPro £750

Got me to 196bhp at the front wheels (237 flywheel) with the prices I paid (excluding fitting and mapping) in 2004

To go higher get the RBC intake manifold (you will need to cut metal away from the bonnet catch area to fit it)

Don't go changing cams - to see significant performance increases you need Toda A3 cams /spec C or above and it will cost you 2 grand fitted and mapped properly. For this you may as well buy a supercharger

[havoc]

Have either of you guys got 'before' figures at the rolling roads you used to get those figures? And what roads were they gained on?

I ask because a lot of commercial r-roads will be set to 'optimistic' because that then gives the casual tuner the answer he wants, rather than the answer he needs. Without a 'before', r-road figures aren't that meaningful...



(And I'm a little skeptical you can get 40bhp without changing internals on a K20A - please see below - blueprinting, H-C pistons, cams and valve-springs as well as breathing work!)

Quoted from a review of the Mugen Atom (270bhp, so 70bhp up on the stock K20Z): "Each Atom Mugen engine is stripped, measured and fully blueprinted at Mugen Europe's Northampton headquarters. The engines are reassembled with high performance, higher compression pistons, high lift camshafts and new valve springs. A longer freeflow inlet manifold is fitted with a bigger diameter throttle body together with race grade spark plugs."

[itsnotarace]

I have charts from CPL Racing which is a well known "conservative" dyno showing before and after figures but it's nearly 7 years ago and I would have to spend time hunting them from whatever box they are in.

I have also run at Janspeed in Salisbury which confirmed the CPL "after" numbers.

Forget the K20 engined variants, their results are not comparable because the engine is located in another chassis. To put this into perspective the Atom and Lotus Elise/Exige with K20 conversions are RWD which have different drivetrain losses through the dyno compared to FWD Civic's.

Also you have to take into account that the engines in Atoms and Elise/Exige are not mounted in a restrictive engine bay with bonnet that has to close over the top, like they are in a Civic - so getting air into the engine and then routing the exhaust is must simpler and can be done in a way to maximise air flow and minimise power losses.

With the right parts (which I listed above), it's pretty easy to get to those sort of figures. To get over 240bhp NA from a K20A2 needs a serious amount of investment. With a good set of Toda cams (also requiring pistons/springs/valves/valvestems/gaskets etc) 270bhp NA is not unheard of but you need to up the revlimit to 9k and that is dangerous territory to be in for extended periods (unless you own a race team and do regular rebuilds). BTCC Civic's have VTEC killer camshafts and run to 10k RPM

Even with the parts I listed, you still need a Quaife LSD (£1k), brakes and various other bits to make the most of the extra power.

Scuffers is probably your best man on here to talk about K20 conversions.

These are about the best you can buy off the shelf

http://www.erlperformance.com/honda-k20-erl-superd...

The best K20 tuning forums: http://www.k20a.org/forum/index.php

CPL Racing have run a 9 second 1/4 mile in their Civic with 1000bhp, just goes to show what can be done with a turbo the size of Russia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCGkNTz34M

[havoc]

All looks like good info.

And thanks for the reply - I guess 230+ is possible without internals, still sounds a little optimistic and IMHO you'd have to cherry-pick the best products and spend time mapping them properly...but I'll concede the point!

[itsnotarace]

havoc said:

you'd have to cherry-pick the best products and spend time mapping them properly

I did, they are listed above. It's a very well tried and tested combination and nothing has really improved on it in the last 6 years apart from the release of the RBC intake manifold

I used a free Hondata map from ClubRSX, which I tweaked to my needs.

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=299020

[superchargedctr]

230BHP ATF is possible by upgrading exhaust/intake I went down this route initially although once you start its hard to stop and you only yearn for more power. Go the whole hog and charge it and be done with it, this is my print out form Surry Rolling Road from December last year

[Grovsie26]

itsnotarace said:

GruppeM air filter £600
Toda Racing Manifold £900
Spoon N1 catback £600
Hondata KPro £750

Got me to 196bhp at the front wheels (237 flywheel) with the prices I paid (excluding fitting and mapping) in 2004

To go higher get the RBC intake manifold (you will need to cut metal away from the bonnet catch area to fit it)

Don't go changing cams - to see significant performance increases you need Toda A3 cams /spec C or above and it will cost you 2 grand fitted and mapped properly. For this you may as well buy a supercharger

But at least you still get the VTEC kick, and characteristic of the engine. Save yourself 300quid and get the Tegiwa Airbox, it's the same thing. A 270-280 cammed K20 would be ace.