S2000 - what to get
Discussion
Just a random one really chaps.
Really really want an S2000, was looking at ap2 approx 10-11k
Now the suns out i really want to go for it,however i cant afford 11k at the moment.
I think the ap2 looks much better, with the revised bumpers and alloys, plus they are just newer.
Will be my first RWD, do i save and wait for the AP2 (More forgiving i read), or do i be a man and get on and buy an AP1 and enjoy this sun.
ps on a serious note, if any S2k owners out there fancy changing to a Black 3dr Astra sporthatch. (200bhp, 330lb tq), let me know.
Really really want an S2000, was looking at ap2 approx 10-11k
Now the suns out i really want to go for it,however i cant afford 11k at the moment.
I think the ap2 looks much better, with the revised bumpers and alloys, plus they are just newer.
Will be my first RWD, do i save and wait for the AP2 (More forgiving i read), or do i be a man and get on and buy an AP1 and enjoy this sun.
ps on a serious note, if any S2k owners out there fancy changing to a Black 3dr Astra sporthatch. (200bhp, 330lb tq), let me know.
I have a 2003 - pre facelift car, and its great. I personally prefer the series one shape - more pure, but can be brought up to date by fitting the series 2 wheels. Get one and enjoy it, its a real drivers car which imo is underestimated. www.s2ki.com for more info.
Look for even tyre wear, paper evidence of suspension geometry set up, and oem spec tyres.
>2003 the cars had a glass rear window
>2004 facelift bumpers, lights, centre console, wheels and suspension tweeks.
(Ap1 and Ap2 denotes the 2000 and 2200cc engine change. Europe only had the AP1 throughout the life of the S2000)
Look for even tyre wear, paper evidence of suspension geometry set up, and oem spec tyres.
>2003 the cars had a glass rear window
>2004 facelift bumpers, lights, centre console, wheels and suspension tweeks.
(Ap1 and Ap2 denotes the 2000 and 2200cc engine change. Europe only had the AP1 throughout the life of the S2000)
russy, joe is right regarding the AP1/AP2 thing - all european 2.0 cars are AP1s. The confusion comes because a host of interior, rear screen and suspension etc. changes were introduced on european cars at a similar time as the intro of the AP2 model 2.2 engine in the US.
Read the FAQ at www.s2ki.co.uk and see which MY car may float your boat. Those with experience say each major model revision has it's own character - some softer, some more focussed blah blah. Then go drive and see which suits you.
Read the FAQ at www.s2ki.co.uk and see which MY car may float your boat. Those with experience say each major model revision has it's own character - some softer, some more focussed blah blah. Then go drive and see which suits you.
swannynhb said:
ive had both an ap1 and ap2, i prefer the look of the ap2 but i find the drive in the ap1 a bit more involving as you have to be awake to drive it quickly.
Ok, well going from my hot hatch to driving the AP2, I felt the car felt much more alive, and like you said you have to be awake to drive quickly. However from what you say and ive read elsewhere the AP1 is much more alive then the AP2.This is what worries me to some extent, where I live I am amidst consistent uneven A & B roads, which go from 100mph hangers on to wet muddy B road twisties littered with tractors. I am not a racing driver and like I have said previously this will be my first RWD, so am a bit dubious to take on the more twitchy car.
I’ll have to get out and test one I think.
I know the technical difference between the model changes, however what are your comments on the difference between the two??
russy01 said:
I don't agree with you there, ap1 was from launch to mid '03, ap2 there on. There was not a different model no. for the 2.2, just different engine codes (f20c for 2.0 and f22c1 for 2.2)
Glass screens came in during ap1 time, 2002 I think.
Look on the VIN plate for ALL European +04 cars they are AP1'sGlass screens came in during ap1 time, 2002 I think.
+04 US and later JDM cars are AP2 (with the 2.2 engine)
I know because I had four of them all different model years!
From experience I'd say an 04/05 car is the best value for money.
Has all the good cosmetic changes plus revised suspension.
It is alot more predictable and a better bet for a first RWD car than the 99-03 cars.
Across the years they revised the dampers & ARB's 6 times, about every 2 years. Consenus is the 08/09 cars are the best with the changes to the dampers and ARB's making it more like the early cars but with out the vtec kick that often broke traction in the 99-01 cars.
russy01 said:
This is what worries me to some extent, where I live I am amidst consistent uneven A & B roads, which go from 100mph hangers on to wet muddy B road twisties littered with tractors. I am not a racing driver and like I have said previously this will be my first RWD, so am a bit dubious to take on the more twitchy car.
I went from an ITR to an MY2003, and in 3 years I didn't once spin it (well, there was the doughnut in the car park at work, but that was deliberate...).If you're worried about the roads:-
- Drive to the visibility - as John Lyons says: "always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear"
- Pick-and-choose the times to go hooning.
If you're worried about the car / your driving:-
- Get the geometry done to your specifications (can make a big difference with the S2000 - I'd drive it for a month or two to start with, see how it feels with the current set-up, then take it somewhere good and talk to them about what you want to change)
- Get cross-braces fitted (improves 'feel' through the seat of your pants and makes the car feel a little more planted)
- The rear suspension and RTA bush position on all/most Hondas (inc the S2000) is set so that under braking the 'drag' on the rear-wheels increases toe-in so increases stability.
- Get some advanced driver training - if it's your first rwd car then it could reap massive benefits - took me over a year (~6-7k miles) before I felt I understood the S2000 enough to push it and play with it, and even when I sold it I was still learning.
IMHO the differences from '03 to '04 are overstated - half of the issue with the early cars was the (now-discontinued) S02 tyres, which were averse to standing water (and IMHO on their own caused a fair few of the accidents - I replaced mine initially with T1-Rs, and had some great fun in the wet!). Also, the RE050A is the standard replacement for the 16" sizes, and it's a superior tyre to the OE RE050 on the 17" wheels.
Final point - at that price, buy on condition, rather than on age - a well-looked-after 2002/03 is going to be a better bet as an all-round ownership proposition than a leggy or neglected 2004 car.
I had an AP1 a few years back and have just bought a 2004 Moonrock with Red/Black Leather. The mods made on the 2004 model were made for a reason and it is a more composed car overall. I find it has less initial understeer, less tendancy to jump to oversteer and is better on bumby roads.
See the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
See the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
russy01 said:
swannynhb said:
ive had both an ap1 and ap2, i prefer the look of the ap2 but i find the drive in the ap1 a bit more involving as you have to be awake to drive it quickly.
Ok, well going from my hot hatch to driving the AP2, I felt the car felt much more alive, and like you said you have to be awake to drive quickly. However from what you say and ive read elsewhere the AP1 is much more alive then the AP2.This is what worries me to some extent, where I live I am amidst consistent uneven A & B roads, which go from 100mph hangers on to wet muddy B road twisties littered with tractors. I am not a racing driver and like I have said previously this will be my first RWD, so am a bit dubious to take on the more twitchy car.
I’ll have to get out and test one I think.
I know the technical difference between the model changes, however what are your comments on the difference between the two??
tuscman said:
I had an AP1 a few years back and have just bought a 2004 Moonrock with Red/Black Leather. The mods made on the 2004 model were made for a reason and it is a more composed car overall. I find it has less initial understeer, less tendancy to jump to oversteer and is better on bumby roads.
See the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
the understeer on turn in and snap of oversteer is easily sorted with decent tyres and a geo set up by someone who knows what they are doingSee the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
Just out of interest, what is the tax band for these cars, or are they unnaffected because of their age...ie about £200-00 p.a.
I am a bit confused about whether an earlier car is more my cup of tea than a later one....I have a TVR which is rapidly becoming a focused track day car, whence my interest in a daily soft top...to replace my RS Focus (I must be mad because the Focus is fantastic, but its not a proper traditional sports car, which is really where mty interest is). Are the earlier cars better "drivers" cars, ie more pure?...although it will be my daily driver so I do not want too many miles on the clock.
I am a bit confused about whether an earlier car is more my cup of tea than a later one....I have a TVR which is rapidly becoming a focused track day car, whence my interest in a daily soft top...to replace my RS Focus (I must be mad because the Focus is fantastic, but its not a proper traditional sports car, which is really where mty interest is). Are the earlier cars better "drivers" cars, ie more pure?...although it will be my daily driver so I do not want too many miles on the clock.
swannynhb said:
tuscman said:
I had an AP1 a few years back and have just bought a 2004 Moonrock with Red/Black Leather. The mods made on the 2004 model were made for a reason and it is a more composed car overall. I find it has less initial understeer, less tendancy to jump to oversteer and is better on bumby roads.
See the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
the understeer on turn in and snap of oversteer is easily sorted with decent tyres and a geo set up by someone who knows what they are doingSee the following review which states -
'The sound of the engine though is merely an accompaniment to the main course that is the S2000's chassis. This is where the new car blows its predecessor into the distant past, and sits proudly next to cars of such ability as the Lotus Elise and Porsche Boxster. We commented that the original S2000 felt as if it was developed on a glass-smooth track, and that over the limit driving was probably best kept to the track. The new car is a revelation. You can wander up to and over the limit of grip in the dry with ease.'
http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=art...
I can't recall my '03 ever understeering, anyway - very quick and responsive front-end! And as I've said repeatedly, with braces and the right geo, it had a very playful/progressive rear-end in the wet (and so much grip you wouldn't want to push it loose in the dry).
CTE said:
Just out of interest, what is the tax band for these cars, or are they unnaffected because of their age...ie about £200-00 p.a.
I am a bit confused about whether an earlier car is more my cup of tea than a later one....I have a TVR which is rapidly becoming a focused track day car, whence my interest in a daily soft top...to replace my RS Focus (I must be mad because the Focus is fantastic, but its not a proper traditional sports car, which is really where mty interest is). Are the earlier cars better "drivers" cars, ie more pure?...although it will be my daily driver so I do not want too many miles on the clock.
having only ever driven (owned) an MY00 car, i cant compare to the newer ones. However, as per Havoc's post, any of the S2000s are sensitive to adjustments made to suspensio, tyres and geo. It is argued that the later cars were better set as standard, so in terms of your passion being with sports cars, it may be that the later versions offer just what you are after "out of the box" whereas the earlier cars, while perfectly fine, can be made to respond better with the tweaks made to the newer versionsI am a bit confused about whether an earlier car is more my cup of tea than a later one....I have a TVR which is rapidly becoming a focused track day car, whence my interest in a daily soft top...to replace my RS Focus (I must be mad because the Focus is fantastic, but its not a proper traditional sports car, which is really where mty interest is). Are the earlier cars better "drivers" cars, ie more pure?...although it will be my daily driver so I do not want too many miles on the clock.
Great cars though, and more than enough character to live up to your TVR as a daily driver i would say
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