944 S2 v's S2000
Discussion
Not after a recommendation necessarily (as I'm sure the advice will be clear given which forum I'm posting on), but has anyone here owned a Porsche 944 S2 and an S2000 and can give me a relative comparison about how they compare as daily drivers. I've owned the Porsche before ( and have just sold a 993 911) but I have an S2000 itch that won't go away (love Japanese sports cars and currently have a 1990 Mazda Eunos tucked up on the garage being refurbed). Price wise second-hand the S2 and earlier S2000's are both in the same bracket for me now and already remembering how fantastic the former was I'm tempted to go that way again for my thrills as money is tight and would need to be spent wisely . . . but the S2000 is very very tempting.
(Ahh, go on - just persuade me to buy the S2K)!
(Ahh, go on - just persuade me to buy the S2K)!
Not driven a 944, but have driven a 968 Sport (albeit a leggy one).
Negatives of the S2000:-
- Steering feedback will be notably worse
- "progression" of the back-end will be worse - you'll need to learn it!
- "mid-range" will be notably worse - plenty for give-and-take driving with the diesel reps, but not a sports-car mid-range
- practicality will be worse
- it'll be noisier on motorways
- you'll feel a bit cramped with the hood up
- don't expect it to be a quicker MX-5 - it's got a rather different character which some like and some don't.
However, if this is a weekend car, then the plusses of the S2000, IMHO, should at least equal that lot:-
- very throttle-steerable with the right steering geometry and a smooth driver at the helm
- VTEC is very addictive, and it sounds very nice at full-chat
- it's deceptively quick, and wrung-out will be quicker than an S2
- very direct steering and a stiff chassis make it feel VERY agile
- it's a convertible! Does add another dimension to a car...as you probably remember from the MX-5.
Bills SHOULD be smaller, but there aren't that many specialists around, and there's a couple of known weaknesses (suspension-adjustment bolts seizing being the main one) which aren't immediately obvious from a test-drive.
Negatives of the S2000:-
- Steering feedback will be notably worse
- "progression" of the back-end will be worse - you'll need to learn it!
- "mid-range" will be notably worse - plenty for give-and-take driving with the diesel reps, but not a sports-car mid-range
- practicality will be worse
- it'll be noisier on motorways
- you'll feel a bit cramped with the hood up
- don't expect it to be a quicker MX-5 - it's got a rather different character which some like and some don't.
However, if this is a weekend car, then the plusses of the S2000, IMHO, should at least equal that lot:-
- very throttle-steerable with the right steering geometry and a smooth driver at the helm
- VTEC is very addictive, and it sounds very nice at full-chat
- it's deceptively quick, and wrung-out will be quicker than an S2
- very direct steering and a stiff chassis make it feel VERY agile
- it's a convertible! Does add another dimension to a car...as you probably remember from the MX-5.
Bills SHOULD be smaller, but there aren't that many specialists around, and there's a couple of known weaknesses (suspension-adjustment bolts seizing being the main one) which aren't immediately obvious from a test-drive.
Recently sold my 968 and now have a s2k. The biggest differnce is the engine really...both weigh about the same, both have similar balance, both have the same power output.....but at about the point the Porsche runs out of puff is where the Honda gets into its stride.
Handling wise, I prefer the Honda. Feels sharper and more agile....all this talk of the s2k being twitchy is just rubbish!
Once used to the vtec power delivery it's not really a problem, just need to be in the right gear/rev range for a quick overtake.
Porsche has an over engineered feel to it, Honda has an inteligently engineered feel to it. Honda ergonomics a lot better too.
Economy about the same as well.
Don't miss the Porsche, but would probably miss the Honda....it's a hell of a lot more fun crossing the Alps with the top down ;o)
Handling wise, I prefer the Honda. Feels sharper and more agile....all this talk of the s2k being twitchy is just rubbish!
Once used to the vtec power delivery it's not really a problem, just need to be in the right gear/rev range for a quick overtake.
Porsche has an over engineered feel to it, Honda has an inteligently engineered feel to it. Honda ergonomics a lot better too.
Economy about the same as well.
Don't miss the Porsche, but would probably miss the Honda....it's a hell of a lot more fun crossing the Alps with the top down ;o)
Cheers Havoc
Having had some fairly hefty bills (brakes - £1500) when I owned the S2 the S2000 looks fairly good in comparison!
Thanks for the fair and objective sizing up compared to the 968 you've driven. It is pretty much in line with what I suspected and given the 'plus' points you've listed as a weekend car I'm leaning more towards the S2000. I have to admit the that engine really appeals and the looks are seriously killer (+ its more indulgent and less practical = more indulgent and therefore more special somehow).
Having had some fairly hefty bills (brakes - £1500) when I owned the S2 the S2000 looks fairly good in comparison!
Thanks for the fair and objective sizing up compared to the 968 you've driven. It is pretty much in line with what I suspected and given the 'plus' points you've listed as a weekend car I'm leaning more towards the S2000. I have to admit the that engine really appeals and the looks are seriously killer (+ its more indulgent and less practical = more indulgent and therefore more special somehow).
chrisr29 said:
Recently sold my 968 and now have a s2k. The biggest differnce is the engine really...both weigh about the same, both have similar balance, both have the same power output.....but at about the point the Porsche runs out of puff is where the Honda gets into its stride.
Handling wise, I prefer the Honda. Feels sharper and more agile....all this talk of the s2k being twitchy is just rubbish!
Once used to the vtec power delivery it's not really a problem, just need to be in the right gear/rev range for a quick overtake.
Porsche has an over engineered feel to it, Honda has an inteligently engineered feel to it. Honda ergonomics a lot better too.
Economy about the same as well.
Don't miss the Porsche, but would probably miss the Honda....it's a hell of a lot more fun crossing the Alps with the top down ;o)
Damn it. . . .now I'm going to have to find the cash for a trip to the Alps as well!Handling wise, I prefer the Honda. Feels sharper and more agile....all this talk of the s2k being twitchy is just rubbish!
Once used to the vtec power delivery it's not really a problem, just need to be in the right gear/rev range for a quick overtake.
Porsche has an over engineered feel to it, Honda has an inteligently engineered feel to it. Honda ergonomics a lot better too.
Economy about the same as well.
Don't miss the Porsche, but would probably miss the Honda....it's a hell of a lot more fun crossing the Alps with the top down ;o)
You're welcome.
Hop over to s2ki for some less objective advice, and DO test-drive one.
My further advice:-
- Get the best-condition one you can afford, NOT the one that handles the best - they're very susceptible to geometry changes (as long as the adjustment bolts aren't seized! ), so for £100 you can effect a very noticeable change in the handling.
- Another £200-300 on cross-braces front (upper and lower) and rear (lower, less impt) makes the car feel more 'tied-down' and predictable - best money I spent on the car.
- Try and get one with a glass rear-screen - it does make a difference
- Hardtop not essential, but very useful if the car's living outside all-year, and if you plan to use it much over winter (I made some lovely circles in the snow in the work car-park this year - that LSD at the back keeps it in a straight-line beautifully!!!
)
- Brakes, tyres etc. are typical Honda prices, so don't worry if a car needs them. Clutch isn't though, so if you're looking at an old one on its first clutch, budget £800+ at a main dealer or £6-700 at an indy...
- The cars DO sound tappety, but they shouldn't rattle on cold start-up (ensure completely cold start-up, as with all cars) and they should ideally have a completely even idle - a 'burble' could indicate anything from a failing MAP sensor (common and not too pricey) to the ECU trying to compensate for a timing issue (chain not belt, but in-extremis they can stretch). And 3 or 4 things in-between, such as injectors, coils, etc...
- "Kangarooing" is usually down to the MAP sensor, so don't let that put you off.
Oh, finally:-
- N'ring blue ones are for hairdressers, Monte-Carlo blue ones are the quickest!
Hop over to s2ki for some less objective advice, and DO test-drive one.
My further advice:-
- Get the best-condition one you can afford, NOT the one that handles the best - they're very susceptible to geometry changes (as long as the adjustment bolts aren't seized!
), so for £100 you can effect a very noticeable change in the handling.- Another £200-300 on cross-braces front (upper and lower) and rear (lower, less impt) makes the car feel more 'tied-down' and predictable - best money I spent on the car.
- Try and get one with a glass rear-screen - it does make a difference
- Hardtop not essential, but very useful if the car's living outside all-year, and if you plan to use it much over winter (I made some lovely circles in the snow in the work car-park this year - that LSD at the back keeps it in a straight-line beautifully!!!
)- Brakes, tyres etc. are typical Honda prices, so don't worry if a car needs them. Clutch isn't though, so if you're looking at an old one on its first clutch, budget £800+ at a main dealer or £6-700 at an indy...
- The cars DO sound tappety, but they shouldn't rattle on cold start-up (ensure completely cold start-up, as with all cars) and they should ideally have a completely even idle - a 'burble' could indicate anything from a failing MAP sensor (common and not too pricey) to the ECU trying to compensate for a timing issue (chain not belt, but in-extremis they can stretch). And 3 or 4 things in-between, such as injectors, coils, etc...
- "Kangarooing" is usually down to the MAP sensor, so don't let that put you off.
Oh, finally:-
- N'ring blue ones are for hairdressers, Monte-Carlo blue ones are the quickest!
chrisr29 said:
havoc said:
Oh, finally:-
- N'ring blue ones are for hairdressers, Monte-Carlo blue ones are the quickest!
Intersting comment. Mine's N'ring blue.....not sure about the hairdressers but the ladies seem to love it! - N'ring blue ones are for hairdressers, Monte-Carlo blue ones are the quickest!
... my sexy hairdresser likes it
I have few colour prejudices regarding the exterior colour of cars as long as they complement the shape and surface angles of the car from a reflective perspective (I used to drive a Speed Yellow 911 which is a real marmite colour in Porsche circles but I absolutely loved it). I think that Nurburgring Blue is a 'grower' but I am not really a fan of the blue interior that a lot of them are spec'd with. It's all just down to personal taste though. . .
My preference would be White (Red seats, black dash), Monte Carlo Blue (Full black interior), Moonrock (Red seats, black dash), Black (Red seats, black dash) in that order. . .
My preference would be White (Red seats, black dash), Monte Carlo Blue (Full black interior), Moonrock (Red seats, black dash), Black (Red seats, black dash) in that order. . .
Edited by OnePaintedMan on Thursday 8th October 10:27
Edited by OnePaintedMan on Thursday 8th October 10:29
OnePaintedMan said:
My preference would be White (Red seats, black dash), Monte Carlo Blue (Full black interior), Moonrock (Red seats, black dash), Black (Red seats, black dash) in that order. . .
I'd swap black and Moonrock around, but otherwise good list.
One point - Monte Carlo blue is only available up to 2003, Moonrock only from 2004, and white I think is just a JDM colour (i.e. import) until maybe 2006...which might be pearl-white then! 2004/05 had Royal Navy Blue Pearl, which is a lot darker. 2006 brought in another blue (forget the name) which is between MCB and N'ring Blue (close to the Clio-182 Cup blue colour, but metallic) which IMHO isn't quite as good as MCB but still quite nice.
Seats - up to 2003 they were either all-red, all-blue, or all-black. From 2004 you could have them with coloured-centres and black bolsters, and the door cards got a matching 1/2-and-1/2 colour scheme too.
havoc said:
OnePaintedMan said:
My preference would be White (Red seats, black dash), Monte Carlo Blue (Full black interior), Moonrock (Red seats, black dash), Black (Red seats, black dash) in that order. . .
I'd swap black and Moonrock around, but otherwise good list.
One point - Monte Carlo blue is only available up to 2003, Moonrock only from 2004, and white I think is just a JDM colour (i.e. import) until maybe 2006...which might be pearl-white then! 2004/05 had Royal Navy Blue Pearl, which is a lot darker. 2006 brought in another blue (forget the name) which is between MCB and N'ring Blue (close to the Clio-182 Cup blue colour, but metallic) which IMHO isn't quite as good as MCB but still quite nice.
Seats - up to 2003 they were either all-red, all-blue, or all-black. From 2004 you could have them with coloured-centres and black bolsters, and the door cards got a matching 1/2-and-1/2 colour scheme too.
havoc said:
Seats - up to 2003 they were either all-red, all-blue, or all-black. From 2004 you could have them with coloured-centres and black bolsters, and the door cards got a matching 1/2-and-1/2 colour scheme too.
Just to confuse things further, pre-02 had 1/2 colour door cards too richieboy3008 said:
If you're buying an early car, watch out for the suspension bushes, they had seized on mine. I'd get it looked at by a geo shop before you buy.
later cars too, in fact any that has done a winters worth of driving. Each year that goes by, the more likely you'll see it though. I'm nit sure they greased any from the factory.That said, it's only an issue if it prevents you from adjusting the geo properly, only the 2 compliance bushes are actually mot failures.
richieboy3008 said:
If you're buying an early car, watch out for the suspension bushes, they had seized on mine. I'd get it looked at by a geo shop before you buy.
Advice noted - thank you . . . I'm going to delay my purchase until the new year now as it looks like a job change is on the cards. This stupid recession has really played havoc with my car obsession! I will definitely be seeking further advice from everyone in this forum at that time though.I HAVE to purchase something in the new year though as my stag do is going to be a trip to the 'Ring (my first time) and I am not going to do that in a Mondeo diesel estate (given all the previous sports cars I've owned I'm quite hacked off to be left with two family cars in my possession at this present time - even my Mazda Eunos is in pieces in the garage)!
I'd definitely stretch to an '02+ if you can (£8k should be enough) as the plastic rear screens on the early ones may need replacing (which is IIRC a whole-hood job)...which will eat-up a large chunk of the difference between an '00 car and an '02 car!
Under £8k there's an '02 MCB at S2000-4-U at the moment (they have a mixed reputation on s2ki, and not without reason - treat with caution but you CAN get some decent stuff there), and there's a black '02 GT in Merseyside which reads well but only has two awful pictures advertising it...
Under £8k there's an '02 MCB at S2000-4-U at the moment (they have a mixed reputation on s2ki, and not without reason - treat with caution but you CAN get some decent stuff there), and there's a black '02 GT in Merseyside which reads well but only has two awful pictures advertising it...
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