Worn Piston Ring on S2000
Discussion
Hi All,
The first time I've been on the site. I was out for a drink with a mate (complete petrol head) at the weekend. I was telling him about my problem with my S2000. I was on beer, he was drinking 4 star leaded. He said if anywhere can help its here, so here I am.
I have a 05 S2000 38k on the clock. Bought used last November from Gatwick Honda. It came supplied with one years Honda approved warranty (still valid). Service history is perfect and I look after it like a baby. I check the oil every couple of weeks.
A few weeks ago the engine management light came on. Straight away I was on the phone, next day brought into the dealer. I was told a misfire had happened and it may have been just one of those things. The light was reset and of it came on again, contact them.
A week later the light was back on. Again straight on the phone, through work I couldn't bring it back to Gatwick, so took it into my local dealer, Chiswick Honda. They had the car for the day, the code was again a misfire. It needed further research to find out what it was.
To cut an already long story short, the no.1 cylinder was not pressurising. In the end the block had to be stripped down. The oil scraper piston ring was found to be worn, hence no power coming from the cylinder.
After much debating, Honda will not pay the full cost of the repair under the warranty £1200, they'll cover only £500. As it is considered as wear and tear. Has this happened to anyone else. I thought my S2000 was going to be bullet proof. I never expected a part as crucial as this to fail, so early on anyhow. Any advice on what to do, would be greatly appreciated.
JC
The first time I've been on the site. I was out for a drink with a mate (complete petrol head) at the weekend. I was telling him about my problem with my S2000. I was on beer, he was drinking 4 star leaded. He said if anywhere can help its here, so here I am.
I have a 05 S2000 38k on the clock. Bought used last November from Gatwick Honda. It came supplied with one years Honda approved warranty (still valid). Service history is perfect and I look after it like a baby. I check the oil every couple of weeks.
A few weeks ago the engine management light came on. Straight away I was on the phone, next day brought into the dealer. I was told a misfire had happened and it may have been just one of those things. The light was reset and of it came on again, contact them.
A week later the light was back on. Again straight on the phone, through work I couldn't bring it back to Gatwick, so took it into my local dealer, Chiswick Honda. They had the car for the day, the code was again a misfire. It needed further research to find out what it was.
To cut an already long story short, the no.1 cylinder was not pressurising. In the end the block had to be stripped down. The oil scraper piston ring was found to be worn, hence no power coming from the cylinder.
After much debating, Honda will not pay the full cost of the repair under the warranty £1200, they'll cover only £500. As it is considered as wear and tear. Has this happened to anyone else. I thought my S2000 was going to be bullet proof. I never expected a part as crucial as this to fail, so early on anyhow. Any advice on what to do, would be greatly appreciated.
JC
Very very rare on a +04 car to have that sort of problem 
I'm a mod on here www.s2ki.com and I've never seen one do that!
Early ones do something similar on no4 but there was a recall to sort this!
I'd be arguing the toss!
No way worn piston rings @ 38k miles on a 4 year old car is fair wear and tear!
I'm a mod on here www.s2ki.com and I've never seen one do that!
Early ones do something similar on no4 but there was a recall to sort this!
I'd be arguing the toss!
No way worn piston rings @ 38k miles on a 4 year old car is fair wear and tear!
Agree with Mikey - 138k maybe they'd have a point, but not anywhere in 2 figures, not in a modern engine.
Trouble is, the Hondacare warranty isn't an insurance policy, therefore isn't FSA regulated. Not entirely certain how it's backed, but probably by Honda UK themselves...therefore if they don't want to pay the full amount you have one recourse - small claims court!
I'd get your dealer to go into bat for you - "wear and tear" is patently unreasonable, all parties know it, it's just an excuse. But there's only so much Chiswick can do for you, if HUK won't play ball...I suspect that if when you push you don't get anywhere, then you'll have to take them to court.
(It's for this precise reason that I consider the Hondacare warranty to be a gamble, as much down to your relationship with your dealer as the condition of your car...but then the Porsche GB one is the same, apparently!)
Trouble is, the Hondacare warranty isn't an insurance policy, therefore isn't FSA regulated. Not entirely certain how it's backed, but probably by Honda UK themselves...therefore if they don't want to pay the full amount you have one recourse - small claims court!
I'd get your dealer to go into bat for you - "wear and tear" is patently unreasonable, all parties know it, it's just an excuse. But there's only so much Chiswick can do for you, if HUK won't play ball...I suspect that if when you push you don't get anywhere, then you'll have to take them to court.
(It's for this precise reason that I consider the Hondacare warranty to be a gamble, as much down to your relationship with your dealer as the condition of your car...but then the Porsche GB one is the same, apparently!)
Thanks guys, a slight change to the story.
I managed to get hold of the engineer thats signs the warranty claims off or not. The fault is not worn piston rings as I was previously told. They basically are not sure, but suspect that the splits on the rings may have come into line causing the pressure loss on the compression stroke.
He told me to appeal it for a second time as he can only go by what the book says. So I'm trying that.
I'm not sure if I buy the explanation. A slim chance of happening I know but with all the millions of cars in the world everytime the rings come into line if this problem happened surely it would be very common.
Joe I've taken your advice and gone over to S2KI as well, but you probably know that already.
Thanks again.
JC
I managed to get hold of the engineer thats signs the warranty claims off or not. The fault is not worn piston rings as I was previously told. They basically are not sure, but suspect that the splits on the rings may have come into line causing the pressure loss on the compression stroke.
He told me to appeal it for a second time as he can only go by what the book says. So I'm trying that.
I'm not sure if I buy the explanation. A slim chance of happening I know but with all the millions of cars in the world everytime the rings come into line if this problem happened surely it would be very common.
Joe I've taken your advice and gone over to S2KI as well, but you probably know that already.
Thanks again.
JC
Does sound VERY unlikely to me, particularly as that would be an argument AGAINST the policy paying out...rather convenient!?! 
How much do you DEFINITELY know, and how much is just hearsay from the chappy at Chiswick? Because 'random misfire' is the one bugbear of the S2000 - there are about 8 or 9 different possible causes ranging from irrelevant up to bloody serious.
If it's definitely lost compression on #1, then I'd be checking not just the rings but the bore wear and whether the sleeve and piston are still the same shape/profile (i.e. if a previous owner has let it run low on oil and the engine has got too hot and warped ever-so-slightly...). I'd also be looking at the valve-seats, and perhaps even the valve-stem seals. Worth finding out if the dealership has checked any or all of that little list...trouble is, that checking-out exercise might be at your expense...
Best of luck, and DO ask this question on s2ki - despite what some on here say, there's a lot of good knowledge on that site!
How much do you DEFINITELY know, and how much is just hearsay from the chappy at Chiswick? Because 'random misfire' is the one bugbear of the S2000 - there are about 8 or 9 different possible causes ranging from irrelevant up to bloody serious.
If it's definitely lost compression on #1, then I'd be checking not just the rings but the bore wear and whether the sleeve and piston are still the same shape/profile (i.e. if a previous owner has let it run low on oil and the engine has got too hot and warped ever-so-slightly...). I'd also be looking at the valve-seats, and perhaps even the valve-stem seals. Worth finding out if the dealership has checked any or all of that little list...trouble is, that checking-out exercise might be at your expense...
Best of luck, and DO ask this question on s2ki - despite what some on here say, there's a lot of good knowledge on that site!
JC Slayer said:
Thanks guys, a slight change to the story.
I managed to get hold of the engineer thats signs the warranty claims off or not. The fault is not worn piston rings as I was previously told. They basically are not sure, but suspect that the splits on the rings may have come into line causing the pressure loss on the compression stroke.
That is total BS.I managed to get hold of the engineer thats signs the warranty claims off or not. The fault is not worn piston rings as I was previously told. They basically are not sure, but suspect that the splits on the rings may have come into line causing the pressure loss on the compression stroke.
It is even more unlikely than the failed ring.
What is the probability of all five rings aligning and why would Honda allow that to cause such a major failure.
I have NEVER come across this as a reason for the F20C failing!
Time to threaten an independent engineering report and legal action!
As far as i'm amare the oil control ring doesn't really do much for compression anyway. For significant compression loss for the cylinder not to fire would mean a very worn or broken compression ring or for some reason as said your valves aren't fully seating. Also make sure the sparkplug threads are good and is sealing, simple i know but easily overlooked.
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