Preaching to the converted
Discussion
OK I know most of you hear have enjoyed the virtues of V-Tec for some time now but here I am, a guy who always went with the saying "no replacement for displacement" stating that he has realised what he has missed out on!
I took delivery of the s2000 yesterday lunch time and had been achning to take it for a spin so this evening at 9pm with quiet roads I went out for my first real blast.
Not wanting to appear too much of a wally I kept the roof up at first and pointed the car in the direction of the local country roads. My first initial findings is I can understand why some consider the car twitchy, its certainly easy to provoke, intentionally or otherwise, the back end to step out. This is all part of the learning exercise and its not through a lack of experience of rear wheel drive as its all I've driven for most of my driving life. Its more a case of the way in which the gearing is set up the rear exiting round abouts found the back end slip, progressively, out. This is just part of the adjustment process though as the rest of the drive would show.
Already beeming from side to side I eventually made it to a quite resting point at which time I took the roof down. A nice chill in the air I followed a different route home, music playing, clear skies and open roads instantly told me this car is going to be a keeper. The last time I had such raw envigorating fun from a simple drive out was back when I started driving 14 years ago, back when I would just go out for a drive for the fun of it which is something I havent done in years but can now see myself doing it more often.
Yes its the novilty of being able to enjoy the roof being down which has added to the experience but I never thought I'd find a car so cheap that could match the raw fun of the monaro. Two totally different cars and driving styles the Ro provides its fun in a very different way. I'd scoffed for years at the idea of 4-pots, only seeing them as a poor mans motor lacking in enough power to provide fun unless coupled to a turbo. The jokes on youtube about "v-tec yo!" I now see why, the car pulls lovely but as soon as that 6k limit is hit its like the excitement from the first kiss with a new girl, every oportunity I could find I would get it to kick in.
The handlings lovely but I need to adjust to this cars style. There is a weird and sometimes disconcerting way in which the rear seems to bite and push the turning circle tighter, I am sure I read somewhere about passive rear steering but put this down to people joking about the way in which it can appear skittish to the untrained mind. Maybe it has it or maybe its just the way in which the diff locks up, it certainly isnt agricultural like the Ro.
Eventually returned home with an electric buzz, I can't belive I turned my nose up for so long to the powers of this engine. After being in Civic Type-R's I doubt I'd be as ecstatic about the drive simply due to the environment of those cars. I think its a magical combination of top down and the raw edge of the delivery it just is so rewarding.
Sorry for the ramble but just had to share it with folks that will have been through the same!
I took delivery of the s2000 yesterday lunch time and had been achning to take it for a spin so this evening at 9pm with quiet roads I went out for my first real blast.
Not wanting to appear too much of a wally I kept the roof up at first and pointed the car in the direction of the local country roads. My first initial findings is I can understand why some consider the car twitchy, its certainly easy to provoke, intentionally or otherwise, the back end to step out. This is all part of the learning exercise and its not through a lack of experience of rear wheel drive as its all I've driven for most of my driving life. Its more a case of the way in which the gearing is set up the rear exiting round abouts found the back end slip, progressively, out. This is just part of the adjustment process though as the rest of the drive would show.
Already beeming from side to side I eventually made it to a quite resting point at which time I took the roof down. A nice chill in the air I followed a different route home, music playing, clear skies and open roads instantly told me this car is going to be a keeper. The last time I had such raw envigorating fun from a simple drive out was back when I started driving 14 years ago, back when I would just go out for a drive for the fun of it which is something I havent done in years but can now see myself doing it more often.
Yes its the novilty of being able to enjoy the roof being down which has added to the experience but I never thought I'd find a car so cheap that could match the raw fun of the monaro. Two totally different cars and driving styles the Ro provides its fun in a very different way. I'd scoffed for years at the idea of 4-pots, only seeing them as a poor mans motor lacking in enough power to provide fun unless coupled to a turbo. The jokes on youtube about "v-tec yo!" I now see why, the car pulls lovely but as soon as that 6k limit is hit its like the excitement from the first kiss with a new girl, every oportunity I could find I would get it to kick in.
The handlings lovely but I need to adjust to this cars style. There is a weird and sometimes disconcerting way in which the rear seems to bite and push the turning circle tighter, I am sure I read somewhere about passive rear steering but put this down to people joking about the way in which it can appear skittish to the untrained mind. Maybe it has it or maybe its just the way in which the diff locks up, it certainly isnt agricultural like the Ro.
Eventually returned home with an electric buzz, I can't belive I turned my nose up for so long to the powers of this engine. After being in Civic Type-R's I doubt I'd be as ecstatic about the drive simply due to the environment of those cars. I think its a magical combination of top down and the raw edge of the delivery it just is so rewarding.
Sorry for the ramble but just had to share it with folks that will have been through the same!
Nice one. I had a DC2 Integra for a couple of years, and swopped to a burly M3 Evo, but I miss the buzz and sheer involvement of driving a braced, light, noisy fwd with an agressive diff and noticable vtec crossover so much I'm currently looking for an S2000 to replace the M car *.
I'm having daydreams about touring France in the summer with the roof down and my favorite songs playing in the background.
Honda engines, love 'em.
- So long as I can somehow squeeze a guitar in the boot.
Edited by joesnow on Wednesday 18th February 09:21
Whoops, forgot to say that the Integra had an active rear suspension that adjusted the toe in on the back wheels under braking. Seeing as the S2k was Honda's sports car, I wouldn't be suprised if it had this feature too. Some of the scare stories arise from suspension which has seized, that and people who don't know how to drive!
I love the tacho display in the S2000, inspired by this:
I love the tacho display in the S2000, inspired by this:
S2000 has the same style of passive rear-steer as the ITR (amongst other Hondas). However...it's not unanimously welcomed on s2ki. I'll TRY to keep this brief.
Honda passive-rear-steer is set up to INCREASE toe-in under load, so the outside rear wheel will toe-in more, increasing the turn-in force from that particular wheel and delaying the onset of oversteer.
HOWEVER, what this also means is that if you lift-off the throttle, you DECREASE the load on the outside rear, so you actually reduce the toe-in on that wheel. This is great in a front-driver as it helps provide predictable lift-off-oversteer. In a rear-driver, however, where a newbie may be trying to quell power-oversteer the wrong way...
Michael, what you're probably experiencing is the torsen-style diff, which does have this great feeling of 'driving you around the corner from the back'. It also makes slides easier to hold, apparently...but I'm not god-like enough to have achieved that... (rare fit of modesty from me...bookmark the thread!
)
The combination of the two, together with VERY direct steering (2.5 turns lock-to-lock and a small wheel) make the S2000 THE most understeer-resistant car I've ever driven.
As regards the back-end stepping out...this can be controlled / adjusted through getting the geometry set-up right. Depending on where you are there's a few companies highly rated on s2ki.co.uk (none of them are main dealers), and you can really notice the difference from getting the geo sorted properly. I got the adjustment bolts greased at the same time (took an extra hour's labour), as they're made of a different metal to the collar!
Anyway, glad it's (at least) living up to your expectations...always nice to have another convert to the cause...
Honda passive-rear-steer is set up to INCREASE toe-in under load, so the outside rear wheel will toe-in more, increasing the turn-in force from that particular wheel and delaying the onset of oversteer.
HOWEVER, what this also means is that if you lift-off the throttle, you DECREASE the load on the outside rear, so you actually reduce the toe-in on that wheel. This is great in a front-driver as it helps provide predictable lift-off-oversteer. In a rear-driver, however, where a newbie may be trying to quell power-oversteer the wrong way...
Michael, what you're probably experiencing is the torsen-style diff, which does have this great feeling of 'driving you around the corner from the back'. It also makes slides easier to hold, apparently...but I'm not god-like enough to have achieved that... (rare fit of modesty from me...bookmark the thread!
)The combination of the two, together with VERY direct steering (2.5 turns lock-to-lock and a small wheel) make the S2000 THE most understeer-resistant car I've ever driven.
As regards the back-end stepping out...this can be controlled / adjusted through getting the geometry set-up right. Depending on where you are there's a few companies highly rated on s2ki.co.uk (none of them are main dealers), and you can really notice the difference from getting the geo sorted properly. I got the adjustment bolts greased at the same time (took an extra hour's labour), as they're made of a different metal to the collar!
Anyway, glad it's (at least) living up to your expectations...always nice to have another convert to the cause...
Edited to correct my brain-wave about over- and under-steer
Edited by havoc on Wednesday 18th February 18:20
well I am god like enough to say I held it for ages in that purposely induced drift You can certainly feel the lift off causing bite though only at slow speeds otherwise once comitted I keep it constant.
Todays drive home (now using the long back routes as a regular I feel!!) was so much better now I'm used to it
You can certainly feel the lift off causing bite though only at slow speeds otherwise once comitted I keep it constant.Todays drive home (now using the long back routes as a regular I feel!!) was so much better now I'm used to it
duly bookmarked and print screened to prevent edits!
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