TVR Cerbera or Honda NSX
Discussion
Ok, I know the answers will obviously biased, but...
I am currently selling a TVR Chimaera and keep looking at Cerberas with an understandable primaeval longing. However, I note that lower end Honda NSXs can be bought at the same sort of prices as some of low-mid price Cerbs. Anyone got experience of both and can offer an opinion?
I am currently selling a TVR Chimaera and keep looking at Cerberas with an understandable primaeval longing. However, I note that lower end Honda NSXs can be bought at the same sort of prices as some of low-mid price Cerbs. Anyone got experience of both and can offer an opinion?
Only had the NSX, therefore not really qualified to comment. But I will anyway.
Chalk and cheese I'd have thought here. The NSX was, and is still I think, a seriously sophisticated bit of kit. A piece of engineering brilliance, and luckily fabulous to drive too.
The TVR, in contrast, is a simpler thing, but none the worse for it I'm sure. Its a fast Brit bruiser, and I'd certainly find space in my life for one, or something like it, if I won the lottery.
Depends what you want really?
Chalk and cheese I'd have thought here. The NSX was, and is still I think, a seriously sophisticated bit of kit. A piece of engineering brilliance, and luckily fabulous to drive too.
The TVR, in contrast, is a simpler thing, but none the worse for it I'm sure. Its a fast Brit bruiser, and I'd certainly find space in my life for one, or something like it, if I won the lottery.
Depends what you want really?
Not owned either, but lust after both.
The Cerb will be a monster. If you buy the right one, it'll probably also handle very well and be reasonably reliable.
The NSX is a much safer purchase - there's very little variability between cars as they come out of the factory, so prior-ownership and condition become key to which car to buy. But it'll be a lot slower (albeit quite possibly no less fun, depending on what you want from your car).
Both are rare, both look very good in an unconventional way, both will make you smile.
Answer: Test-drive them both, then decide which one you'll regret NOT owning more...
The Cerb will be a monster. If you buy the right one, it'll probably also handle very well and be reasonably reliable.
The NSX is a much safer purchase - there's very little variability between cars as they come out of the factory, so prior-ownership and condition become key to which car to buy. But it'll be a lot slower (albeit quite possibly no less fun, depending on what you want from your car).
Both are rare, both look very good in an unconventional way, both will make you smile.
Answer: Test-drive them both, then decide which one you'll regret NOT owning more...
Chris Smith said:
Ok, I know the answers will obviously biased, but...
I am currently selling a TVR Chimaera and keep looking at Cerberas with an understandable primaeval longing. However, I note that lower end Honda NSXs can be bought at the same sort of prices as some of low-mid price Cerbs. Anyone got experience of both and can offer an opinion?
I have owned a Chim 450 and a Tuscan 2 S. Sold the Tuscan in 2006 and this year picked up a beautiful 2005 NSX.I am currently selling a TVR Chimaera and keep looking at Cerberas with an understandable primaeval longing. However, I note that lower end Honda NSXs can be bought at the same sort of prices as some of low-mid price Cerbs. Anyone got experience of both and can offer an opinion?
The NSX is faster than the Chim but the Cerb would be alittle faster still, but apart from that the NSX wins everytime. So reliable, well built, VERY RARE, only goes into the dealers for a service -i.e no niggles, handles great, and you never get that ' am I gonna get home today?' feeling that you get with the TVR's.
Oh....... and did I say how good it looks....
Edited by almack on Monday 11th August 21:39
I've had both.
The Cerbera was the first car that I ever sold. I just couldn't take it anymore: the quirks, the breakdowns, the inconveniences, the factory cluelessness. I suppose the good news is that we don't have the latter problem now, but wouldn't one rather have a functioning factory or underlying business of some kind?
The NSX won't deliver quite the buzz of the Cerbera, but it is so good at so many things that its lack of extremeness is not a serious flaw.
I've often thought that it would have been ideal if the Cerbera had cost twice as much, but also had proportionately greater build quality and reliability. Alas, that never happened.
If you don't like getting stuck out on the roadside with a broken-down car, get the NSX.
Must agree, as a Cerbera owner, with the above posts.
I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
micky g said:
Must agree, as a Cerbera owner, with the above posts.
I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
I was just thinking that same thing earlier today - if I could find a well-sorted Cerbera, I'd buy one in a flash. If...I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
How do you know if the one you've found has had everything sorted, or only the things that have gone wrong so far?
As a concept, the Cerbera was great - lightweight, nimble, powerful, good looking, tidy, pure. Like all other TVRs, however, it simply was not properly researched or developed before it was released to the public, or afterwards either.
TVR Moneypit said:
flemke said:
micky g said:
Must agree, as a Cerbera owner, with the above posts.
I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
I was just thinking that same thing earlier today - if I could find a well-sorted Cerbera, I'd buy one in a flash. If...I haven't owned or driven an NSX but have read only good things about them and I'm sure I would find it a very satisfying car to own.
However, if you can find a well sorted Cerbera you should try it, they are an exciting machine, though fickle and frustrating as said. I'm not sure about twice as much Flemke, but another 10k to sort out the build and niggles would have made it one hell of a car.
How do you know if the one you've found has had everything sorted, or only the things that have gone wrong so far?
As a concept, the Cerbera was great - lightweight, nimble, powerful, good looking, tidy, pure. Like all other TVRs, however, it simply was not properly researched or developed before it was released to the public, or afterwards either.
I am doing what you're describing on a very different car, but it's taken 2+ years and counting.
TVR Moneypit said:
Rough sort of back of fag packet calculations here chap;
Resonable Cerb = £8000.
Body off chassis resto = £4500
Re-spray = £2500
Engine re-build = £8000
Nitrons / suspension work = £2500
Grand total = £25'000(ish) for a brand new (old) Cerb.
But having read some of the stuff that you are doing to the F1, I suspect that you would be wanting to do things a little more in depth than simply fit off the shelf parts?
I wasn't thinking about the cosmetic stuff, which didn't concern me much. Resonable Cerb = £8000.
Body off chassis resto = £4500
Re-spray = £2500
Engine re-build = £8000
Nitrons / suspension work = £2500
Grand total = £25'000(ish) for a brand new (old) Cerb.
But having read some of the stuff that you are doing to the F1, I suspect that you would be wanting to do things a little more in depth than simply fit off the shelf parts?
What about the electrics? If the systems in the TVR are inherently flawed, then popping in a new one is simply postponing the inevitable failure.
The same goes for an engine. When my engine stopped, as in, just bloody stopped, at 3500rpms, and then in the next two hours, as it sat idle, it regurgitated its oil, it wasn't a rebuild issue.
I've got no problem with off-the-shelf parts if they work properly. In the case of TVRs, I'm not convinced that they always will do.
Again, I'm truly sympathetic to the idea and purpose of a Cerbera. I really wish that the car had been properly sorted by the factory, because the goodness, or the rot, starts in the head.
Cheers.
flemke said:
When my engine stopped, as in, just bloody stopped, at 3500rpms, and then in the next two hours, as it sat idle, it regurgitated its oil, it wasn't a rebuild issue.
I've got no problem with off-the-shelf parts if they work properly. In the case of TVRs, I'm not convinced that they always will do.
I'm sure that after the best part of a dozen years, there's any number of people who know how to build them properly without the erm, 'quirks' that the factory lft in there. I am also convinced that if you are determined to do things properly from the start and have a certain level of knowledge, skill and experience, you'll not need as much (subsequent) 'development' as the result will be pretty much spot on from the start. We're talking cars - intricate, but still mechanical things that are subject to physics rather than some sort of alchemy.I've got no problem with off-the-shelf parts if they work properly. In the case of TVRs, I'm not convinced that they always will do.
It's when you need to productionize things that need to be consistent from example to example and be sold with a healthy profit margin, that things start to get 'interesting'.
Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 12th August 14:34
900T-R said:
flemke said:
When my engine stopped, as in, just bloody stopped, at 3500rpms, and then in the next two hours, as it sat idle, it regurgitated its oil, it wasn't a rebuild issue.
I've got no problem with off-the-shelf parts if they work properly. In the case of TVRs, I'm not convinced that they always will do.
I'm sure that after the best part of a dozen years, there's any number of people who know how to build them properly without the erm, 'quirks' that the factory lft in there. I am also convinced that if you are determined to do things properly from the start and have a certain level of knowledge, skill and experience, you'll not need as much (subsequent) 'development' as the result will be pretty much spot on from the start. We're talking cars - intricate, but still mechanical things that are subject to physics rather than some sort of alchemy.I've got no problem with off-the-shelf parts if they work properly. In the case of TVRs, I'm not convinced that they always will do.
It's when you need to productionize things that need to be consistent from example to example and be sold with a healthy profit margin, that things start to get 'interesting'.
I've had some very low-volume cars which were constructed with great care and attention to detail. The recurring problem, in varying degrees, is that the low volume means that the constructor cannot afford a big development and testing programme, to sort out the crazy niggles like water being drawn into the windscreen rubber after the car's 6th day straight sitting in the rain, or the seatbelt buckle falling one way rather than the other when the door is shut, getting itself caught against the jamb and damaging the paint, or the propensity for leaves to get sucked into the radiator grille, which problem only manifests itself on country roads on a dry day in late October. The list goes on and on, yet all this territory needs to be covered - preferably by the factory, not the car owner.
Out of interest, I've heard that Cerbs are one of the most variable cars when it comes to handling balance - some are understeery, some are b
hily tail-happy, some are a happy middle-ground. This can't just be geometry...is it possible that suspension mounting points were slightly variable from car to car? And if so, how the hell would you get that right first-time around as a private owner 'restoring' one?!?
hily tail-happy, some are a happy middle-ground. This can't just be geometry...is it possible that suspension mounting points were slightly variable from car to car? And if so, how the hell would you get that right first-time around as a private owner 'restoring' one?!?havoc said:
Out of interest, I've heard that Cerbs are one of the most variable cars when it comes to handling balance - some are understeery, some are bhily tail-happy, some are a happy middle-ground. This can't just be geometry...
I'm quite sure it can be... With all due respect to the Blackpool folks, making sure cars left Bristol Ave. with all wheels pointing in the correct direction didn't seem to be a particular forte of theirs...hily tail-happy, some are a happy middle-ground. This can't just be geometry...havoc said:
is it possible that suspension mounting points were slightly variable from car to car? And if so, how the hell would you get that right first-time around as a private owner 'restoring' one?!?
Possible if heat from welding is allowed to distort parts after the suspension pick up points have been attached to the chassis on the jig. However - and this may be one for the aftermarket supension gurus here to answer - I've yet to hear of a case where a decently correct geometry was impossible to achieve...
flemke said:
Good article, thanks. I can't believe I never knew about the sophisticated suspension!Gassing Station | Honda | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff