DC 2 or DC5 ITR?
Discussion
I'm looking to buy an ITR in the near future and am torn between a late DC2 or early DC5. I've read lots of threads on this site and the DC5 seems to be the less focused of the two.
Can anybody shed any light on why this is? I'll be using the car as a daily drive and for weekend fun, but it will have to be practical enougth to put my children in the back of every now and then. They are 4 and 5.
Your input is appreciated.
Regards
Rob
Can anybody shed any light on why this is? I'll be using the car as a daily drive and for weekend fun, but it will have to be practical enougth to put my children in the back of every now and then. They are 4 and 5.
Your input is appreciated.
Regards
Rob
Hi Rob,
I also have this dilema. I am looking for a replacement for my MG ZR160 and have also narrowed my search down to the ITR but am confused by this issue of focus. I assume this maybe means softer suspension or less feedback through the steering. The biggest difference I can see is purely price. There seams to be quite a markup for the later model. I have decided that it maybe better to buy the older model and use the money I have saved to fettle.
I also have this dilema. I am looking for a replacement for my MG ZR160 and have also narrowed my search down to the ITR but am confused by this issue of focus. I assume this maybe means softer suspension or less feedback through the steering. The biggest difference I can see is purely price. There seams to be quite a markup for the later model. I have decided that it maybe better to buy the older model and use the money I have saved to fettle.
Edited by Ebo100 on Sunday 11th May 22:27
DC5 is a great car but not as much fun to drive as the DC2, alledgedly.
Its a newer car, smoother motor, up to date styling bla bla, both will carry young kids, I'd imagine the 5 is quieter inside so this might be preferable with kids?
Test drive both and see which you prefer perhaps?
Also, finding a decent DC2 is getting harder and harder these days, whereas there seems to be loads of DC5s to choose from...
Its a newer car, smoother motor, up to date styling bla bla, both will carry young kids, I'd imagine the 5 is quieter inside so this might be preferable with kids?
Test drive both and see which you prefer perhaps?
Also, finding a decent DC2 is getting harder and harder these days, whereas there seems to be loads of DC5s to choose from...
DC5 has stiffer suspension which doesn't always feel suited to a typical B-road (apparently the owners forum knows of a well-respected replacement kit for it, if your pockets can stretch, but no idea if it's any softer...).
It also has a nicer interior and much more modern looks, plus a more flexible engine. Quite a bit more grip and feels a bit punchier - on a smooth road (or track) it's crushingly quick - not sure ANY other fwd car would keep-up, inc. Focus ST. IIRC it IS a little quieter inside, but half of that is to do with the 6th gear lowering M-way cruising revs.
DC2 feels a bit more lithe/agile (doesn't turn-in quite as instantly though), and provides a fair bit more feedback through the wheel and seat. Both of which mean you're more confident pushing it hard on pretty-much any road.
Both have very big boots and reasonable all-round visibility, both are a similar size/shape both inside and out. But go look at them both and then decide...
It also has a nicer interior and much more modern looks, plus a more flexible engine. Quite a bit more grip and feels a bit punchier - on a smooth road (or track) it's crushingly quick - not sure ANY other fwd car would keep-up, inc. Focus ST. IIRC it IS a little quieter inside, but half of that is to do with the 6th gear lowering M-way cruising revs.
DC2 feels a bit more lithe/agile (doesn't turn-in quite as instantly though), and provides a fair bit more feedback through the wheel and seat. Both of which mean you're more confident pushing it hard on pretty-much any road.
Both have very big boots and reasonable all-round visibility, both are a similar size/shape both inside and out. But go look at them both and then decide...
I think one of the main reasons the DC2 is regarded so highly is only because it was one of the first hard(er)core cars for the road, before the days of ST's, VXR's etc etc. It really broke a mould for Honda and showed their engineers could make superb cars for the under 60's which people had previously doubted (bar the NSX obviously).
The DC5 was just an update of that so could never really have the original shock value. I think a key reason why they say the DC5 has lost a bit of edge is to do with the power delivery. The DC2 engine had a very definite switch point whereas the DC5 is a reworked K20 engine which is in the UK Civic Type-R and provides a more gradual VTEC point which isn't quite so fierce. Hence driving the DC2 becomes a bit of an event whereas the DC5 is just as talented but doesn't shout about it as much.
I've got a DC2 but will move on to a DC5 when funds allow - you really won't be buying a bad car so as said above, try them both and make your choices.
The DC5 was just an update of that so could never really have the original shock value. I think a key reason why they say the DC5 has lost a bit of edge is to do with the power delivery. The DC2 engine had a very definite switch point whereas the DC5 is a reworked K20 engine which is in the UK Civic Type-R and provides a more gradual VTEC point which isn't quite so fierce. Hence driving the DC2 becomes a bit of an event whereas the DC5 is just as talented but doesn't shout about it as much.
I've got a DC2 but will move on to a DC5 when funds allow - you really won't be buying a bad car so as said above, try them both and make your choices.
CW,
'Hardcore' is probably the wrong description. Many modern-day hot-hatches have as-stiff suspension as the DC2.
"Focused" is better, and no other fwd car has been as 'focused' as the DC2 - removal of soundproofing, thinner glass, oval-profile valve-springs, titanium this, that and the other, hand-polished intake and exhaust ports (later machine-polished once they'd made a machine good-enough), strengthened suspension arms...and I've probably missed some stuff off...
As for ST's / VXR's - just badges with bigger engines/brakes/tyres, no real 'meaning' behind them (I guess "Type R" is the same now...) - none of the modern-day hot-hatches warrant comparison to the DC2 in terms of the sheer engineering focus and desire for perfection that went into the DC2, attention more akin to the likes of Porsche with their RS-series cars, Caterham fettling the R300/500/400 and Lotus developing the first Exige IMHO. Even the E46 CSL didn't go as far...
Does this make it a better car than the ST's and VXR's? Not on it's own, no - if they'd not delivered on all this effort, it'd have been a white elephant. But that they DID deliver means that all these little bits add-up to something hard to beat.
Where does the DC5 fit-in? With better steering-feel and more UK-optimised suspension, it would fit in very well. But in both those (IMHO fundamental) areas it plays second fiddle to it's older brother...
'Hardcore' is probably the wrong description. Many modern-day hot-hatches have as-stiff suspension as the DC2.
"Focused" is better, and no other fwd car has been as 'focused' as the DC2 - removal of soundproofing, thinner glass, oval-profile valve-springs, titanium this, that and the other, hand-polished intake and exhaust ports (later machine-polished once they'd made a machine good-enough), strengthened suspension arms...and I've probably missed some stuff off...
As for ST's / VXR's - just badges with bigger engines/brakes/tyres, no real 'meaning' behind them (I guess "Type R" is the same now...) - none of the modern-day hot-hatches warrant comparison to the DC2 in terms of the sheer engineering focus and desire for perfection that went into the DC2, attention more akin to the likes of Porsche with their RS-series cars, Caterham fettling the R300/500/400 and Lotus developing the first Exige IMHO. Even the E46 CSL didn't go as far...
Does this make it a better car than the ST's and VXR's? Not on it's own, no - if they'd not delivered on all this effort, it'd have been a white elephant. But that they DID deliver means that all these little bits add-up to something hard to beat.
Where does the DC5 fit-in? With better steering-feel and more UK-optimised suspension, it would fit in very well. But in both those (IMHO fundamental) areas it plays second fiddle to it's older brother...
Agree with havoc. I've not driven the DC5 but everything I've read about it suggests that although its got a technically better engine, is faster, and much better interior, its lost some of the spirit of the predecessor. Its simply not as raw. Also I've read that the DC5 started the downward spiral of cost cutting on the Type-R models, as it had poorer suspension than its predecessor. Its heavier and more refined than the DC2 and that shouldnt be what a Type-R is about.
As for comparing the DC2 to cars like the FST and VXR, I very much doubt they can compare to it. Like most modern cars, they are heavy, too refined, and too bland. The DC2 is a little slower than most modern hot hatches, but not by much (my JDM 98-spec does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds and 145 mph top end), but despite that, it feels far more exciting due to the gritty, hard edged engine that revs to the heavens, lack of soundproofing and light weight which makes it feel extremely agile and nimble for what is a fairly big car... its actually a longer car than modern focuses and astras, but it weighs less than a bog standard fiesta. A lot of the modern stuff simply cant boast the spec of the DC2 even 10 years on.
Absolutely no way would I swap my DC2 for any modern hot hatch. I might lose in a straight line but i will have FAR more fun. If I was going to spend the kind of money one of those would afford I'd buy a VX220T instead, or if I needed practicality, a Monaro.
As for comparing the DC2 to cars like the FST and VXR, I very much doubt they can compare to it. Like most modern cars, they are heavy, too refined, and too bland. The DC2 is a little slower than most modern hot hatches, but not by much (my JDM 98-spec does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds and 145 mph top end), but despite that, it feels far more exciting due to the gritty, hard edged engine that revs to the heavens, lack of soundproofing and light weight which makes it feel extremely agile and nimble for what is a fairly big car... its actually a longer car than modern focuses and astras, but it weighs less than a bog standard fiesta. A lot of the modern stuff simply cant boast the spec of the DC2 even 10 years on.
Absolutely no way would I swap my DC2 for any modern hot hatch. I might lose in a straight line but i will have FAR more fun. If I was going to spend the kind of money one of those would afford I'd buy a VX220T instead, or if I needed practicality, a Monaro.
Here was Evo's first review
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2269...
personally I have driven the DC2 I had my Bro-in-laws for 2 weeks whilst he was holiday (UK version)and also I have driven to Malta (2000 miles) in a S2000. I still prefer my facelift DC5 out of the 3 but I suppose its down to personal choice they all have bits about them that are better than the others but none of them are bad cars.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2269...
personally I have driven the DC2 I had my Bro-in-laws for 2 weeks whilst he was holiday (UK version)and also I have driven to Malta (2000 miles) in a S2000. I still prefer my facelift DC5 out of the 3 but I suppose its down to personal choice they all have bits about them that are better than the others but none of them are bad cars.
That EVO review reminded me of a little jaunt I had with my DC2, with the EVO staffers 
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2048...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2055...
Granted the voting was probably dominated by the DC2forum members lol but still, to get in the top ten like that is some achievement...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2048...
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2055...
Granted the voting was probably dominated by the DC2forum members lol but still, to get in the top ten like that is some achievement...
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