Bad luck or bad dealer ?
Discussion
Ok, having just bought into the Jap scene with my 98 ITR, I needed to get the cambelt changed (for peace of mind really).
Local franchised main dealer quote me £200......sweet, thats a fair price I think. So I booked the car in at the first available opportunity to include a loan car. Also to be checked were the abs light (intermittent) and if time , replace Thermostat as the car was very slow to warm up.
The day arrived and I turn up bang on 0800.
About 0810 someone opens up and invites me in.
"How can we help?", so I explain why Im here. After about ten minutes of scratching through the prepared jobcards, it appears Im not on the list.The chap then pulls a blank t card and proceeds to fill it in with all the details required. At the end of this, he looks at me, smiles, and say "so, we will see later tonight then". I then inform him that I had booked a loan car at the same time. He checks the loan car file, no details and apparently, no spare loaner either. Another ten minutes later and a loaner has been found and Im on my way.
Halfway through the day, I phone to see how things are going.
It appears the water pump is quite notchy and needs replacing. Fair enough, whilst all the belts are off, do it, and whilst the cooling system is drained, do the stat as well. Water pump needed to be ordered for the following day, keep our car, no problems.
Late the following day I get a call to say it wont be ready till lunchtime the following day (now day 3), but keep our car, no worries.
Phoned lunchtime on day 3, yes, all ready, come and collect it.
Turned up, paid up and went to leave.
When I first started the car it appeared to stutter on the starter. I just assumed I hadnt turned the ignition key quite far enough, but to check, turned it off and restarted without any problems.
Drove home at about .8 leptons with the AC on, all was fair and good, the car even warmed up nice and fast now too.
Anyway,later that day, I went to use the car and it wouldnt start,just stuttering on the starter, like a dodgy lead or similar.Had a look under the bonnet, but couldnt see anything obvious.
Its now 1740, so will have to phone in the morning.
Phoned them first thing, and fair play, and techy was with me pretty sharp.
He tried to start it, and it did the same thing, so he connected up the booster pack and it started.
Within 10 seconds of starting, the engine bay was full of rubber smoke so I yelled to kill the motor.
As we did, the air con belt dropped to the floor, fried.
Tech looks at it and around the engine and announces that the air con compressor clutch is screwed.
But is this *really* coincidental ?
Now, I know my way round cars and motors, and I also work in the trade myself, and Im not having a pop at the dealer.....but its just not been the nicest introduction to Honda and one of their main dealers.
I cant decide why this happened, but one things for sure, things arnt going quite to plan in the reliability stakes.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought a bit of background was needed.
Local franchised main dealer quote me £200......sweet, thats a fair price I think. So I booked the car in at the first available opportunity to include a loan car. Also to be checked were the abs light (intermittent) and if time , replace Thermostat as the car was very slow to warm up.
The day arrived and I turn up bang on 0800.
About 0810 someone opens up and invites me in.
"How can we help?", so I explain why Im here. After about ten minutes of scratching through the prepared jobcards, it appears Im not on the list.The chap then pulls a blank t card and proceeds to fill it in with all the details required. At the end of this, he looks at me, smiles, and say "so, we will see later tonight then". I then inform him that I had booked a loan car at the same time. He checks the loan car file, no details and apparently, no spare loaner either. Another ten minutes later and a loaner has been found and Im on my way.
Halfway through the day, I phone to see how things are going.
It appears the water pump is quite notchy and needs replacing. Fair enough, whilst all the belts are off, do it, and whilst the cooling system is drained, do the stat as well. Water pump needed to be ordered for the following day, keep our car, no problems.
Late the following day I get a call to say it wont be ready till lunchtime the following day (now day 3), but keep our car, no worries.
Phoned lunchtime on day 3, yes, all ready, come and collect it.
Turned up, paid up and went to leave.
When I first started the car it appeared to stutter on the starter. I just assumed I hadnt turned the ignition key quite far enough, but to check, turned it off and restarted without any problems.
Drove home at about .8 leptons with the AC on, all was fair and good, the car even warmed up nice and fast now too.
Anyway,later that day, I went to use the car and it wouldnt start,just stuttering on the starter, like a dodgy lead or similar.Had a look under the bonnet, but couldnt see anything obvious.
Its now 1740, so will have to phone in the morning.
Phoned them first thing, and fair play, and techy was with me pretty sharp.
He tried to start it, and it did the same thing, so he connected up the booster pack and it started.
Within 10 seconds of starting, the engine bay was full of rubber smoke so I yelled to kill the motor.
As we did, the air con belt dropped to the floor, fried.
Tech looks at it and around the engine and announces that the air con compressor clutch is screwed.
But is this *really* coincidental ?
Now, I know my way round cars and motors, and I also work in the trade myself, and Im not having a pop at the dealer.....but its just not been the nicest introduction to Honda and one of their main dealers.
I cant decide why this happened, but one things for sure, things arnt going quite to plan in the reliability stakes.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought a bit of background was needed.
This is one of the reasons that my ATR has been out of the Honda network since it went out of warrenty. My local Honda main dealer even told me once that there was no option for a mid service oil change! My independant specialist who charges about £40 an hour, they race DC5's and have worked extensively on DC2, CTR's (All versions) and ATR's so they actually see the more high performance end of the Honda market. Don't get me wrong I used one Honda dealer for 3 years but after the service manager left the service went to crap.
Back to your problem, I wouldn't grumble about the waterpump too much as getting this changed is, for the reasons you stated fairly sensible. If the AC gubins have died and were prefectly ok prior to the service I would be requesting that they return the car in the same manner that you gave it to them. If they don't play ball then I suppose you may need to go to an independant specialist or get an engineer to do you a report and then take them to the small claims department.
Go to www.tgmsports.co.uk and get Tom's number he will tell you what they have fubar'ed up during the work.
Good luck and keep us informed.
Back to your problem, I wouldn't grumble about the waterpump too much as getting this changed is, for the reasons you stated fairly sensible. If the AC gubins have died and were prefectly ok prior to the service I would be requesting that they return the car in the same manner that you gave it to them. If they don't play ball then I suppose you may need to go to an independant specialist or get an engineer to do you a report and then take them to the small claims department.
Go to www.tgmsports.co.uk and get Tom's number he will tell you what they have fubar'ed up during the work.
Good luck and keep us informed.
Hi there, bit unlucky I think.
£200 is the right price for the cambelt change, so they didn't stiff you here.
You are well advised to change the water pump at the same time - if the old one was really on it's way out (
), they may have saved you a new engine here as it can shred the cambelt if it seizes.
Failure of the aircon tensioner is not undheard of, however it is almost certain that it was the actions required to change the cambelt that provoked the issue, unless you can see something that has been physically damaged by a tool or somesuch it may have been that the tensioner was on it's way out and therefore an unavoidable side effect of the change.
If it looks like the latter then I would go you buying the replacement bit and them fitting for free as a gesture of good will as it should have at the least been picked up before handing the keys back.
If the part is stupidly expensive, then get onto integrastella on itr-dc2.com and get a used one
In my experience with honda it's when they get to 10-12 years old the niggles start to creep in and this is where most 'tegs are now
£200 is the right price for the cambelt change, so they didn't stiff you here.
You are well advised to change the water pump at the same time - if the old one was really on it's way out (
), they may have saved you a new engine here as it can shred the cambelt if it seizes.Failure of the aircon tensioner is not undheard of, however it is almost certain that it was the actions required to change the cambelt that provoked the issue, unless you can see something that has been physically damaged by a tool or somesuch it may have been that the tensioner was on it's way out and therefore an unavoidable side effect of the change.
If it looks like the latter then I would go you buying the replacement bit and them fitting for free as a gesture of good will as it should have at the least been picked up before handing the keys back.
If the part is stupidly expensive, then get onto integrastella on itr-dc2.com and get a used one
In my experience with honda it's when they get to 10-12 years old the niggles start to creep in and this is where most 'tegs are now
I'm lucky in that I've used one of the best Honda dealers in the country for service (Lancaster Honda) throughout my Honda owning experience. Having said that, looking at the problems you experienced, I wouldn't be too harsh on the dealer. The cock up with the booking in might have been their fault, but they sorted it professionally.
The aircon tensioner does seem to be a weak part of the engine bay design- the bolt holding the tensioner on my DC2 sheared when the GF was driving home one day, luckily she stopped before the belt came loose and started causing hell!
Lancaster Honda replaced the entire aicon belt assembly FOC for me, which was nice.
The aircon tensioner does seem to be a weak part of the engine bay design- the bolt holding the tensioner on my DC2 sheared when the GF was driving home one day, luckily she stopped before the belt came loose and started causing hell!
Lancaster Honda replaced the entire aicon belt assembly FOC for me, which was nice.
I've not been impressed by my local dealers either, tbh. But as for your predicament, could be either. I always viewed it as good practice to change all belts when doing the cam-belt, but that might have nothing to do with this problem.
Talk to them, see how you get on. If they don't give you the answers you want to hear, don't go back...
Talk to them, see how you get on. If they don't give you the answers you want to hear, don't go back...
Gave up with my local Honda main agent when they told me that my 2003 Accord 2.4 Type-S needed a cambelt at the next service...
Now use a local indie Honda specialist (think they specialise in ITR) and get good service for less ££.
I'd say that it's impossible to tell what caused the failure - but my gut feel is that parts often fail when disturbed or when a closely assosciated part is changed.
Still reckon Honda are the most reliable cars - possibly Toyota and Mitsubishi also?
Now use a local indie Honda specialist (think they specialise in ITR) and get good service for less ££.
I'd say that it's impossible to tell what caused the failure - but my gut feel is that parts often fail when disturbed or when a closely assosciated part is changed.
Still reckon Honda are the most reliable cars - possibly Toyota and Mitsubishi also?
Edited by V8 Disco on Sunday 4th May 22:07
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