Elise to S2000?

[marky999]

Hi, I'm thinking of trading in my 06 Lotus Elise 111R for a couple of reasons:

- It's an all-year car and I need a little more comfort, which I think the S2000 has.
- I need more stability in the wet

I did test drive an S2000 today and liked it very much. It didn't feel that quick to me but perhaps I never had the space to exploit it properly, and up to 60 my Elise would be quicker (but not much beyond 60, I think).

My main issue is the handling in the wet. Is the S2000 fairly safe? I get tired of driving as if on eggshells in my Elise!
Any other issues I should know about? I'm either going to buy new or a few months old (I understand the replacement isn't out for a couple of years?)

I'm sure i'm not the first person to ponder this move...The S2000 seems the next best thing to me, but better value

Thanks for your help.

Mark

[TaylotS2K]

04 onwards the S2000 is better in the wet with the tweaked suspension and the Bridgetone RE050 tyres.

You still have to be careful though.

My brother has an Elise (a sports tourer) and his beats my S off the line, but as soon as I get the revs going I glide past him.

The S is a good compromise from an Elise to sports car as its still a pretty raw sports car but with more refinement.

If you want more info - head over to the UK section on www.s2ki.com

[Russ H]

Funny this, a lot of S2000 owners on S2Ki are going the other way including me.

I sold my S2000 because I couldn't get on with its handling, though a lot do.

The Honda is better every day though if its your only car.

Russ.

[MrFlibbles]

TaylotS2K said:

04 onwards the S2000 is better in the wet with the tweaked suspension and the Bridgetone RE050 tyres.

You still have to be careful though.

Admittedly I've only ever driven a VXT, and that was n track in the dry, so I may not be fulyl qualified to comment.

As i've said on the forum before, in the wet, I find my MY04 to have very little grip from the rear at all - its actually quite good fun, quite easy to catch as long as you anticipate it.

If I'm not actually intending to go sideways, I can barely tickle the throttle.

[havoc]

Can't really comment on Elise/VX in the wet, but with the right geo and tyres the S2000 is pretty easy in the wet for what it is - very progressive, just lacks enough feedback through the wheel (seat-of-pants feel is OK though).

Russ has been pushing his harder than I have mine, and he's spun a couple of times, but I guess it depends on HOW you drive in the wet...I'm still somewhat cautious and will only play where I've room to recover.


Will you enjoy it? If you can get on with the severely reduced feedback vs the Elise, then yes, IMHO.

[MrFlibbles]

havoc said:

Can't really comment on Elise/VX in the wet, but with the right geo and tyres the S2000 is pretty easy in the wet for what it is - very progressive, just lacks enough feedback through the wheel (seat-of-pants feel is OK though).

Russ has been pushing his harder than I have mine, and he's spun a couple of times, but I guess it depends on HOW you drive in the wet...I'm still somewhat cautious and will only play where I've room to recover.


Will you enjoy it? If you can get on with the severely reduced feedback vs the Elise, then yes, IMHO.

I take the piss.

Pulled into work this morning and could smell burnt rubber.....in the wet

[P.J.]

the s2000 is so well built and no troubles with reliability. BUT it was a definite possible car for me (21k new from motorpoint) till the test drive and the handling left me scared to saythe least.

[C7 JFW]

The steering in the s certainly lacks feel but you get a boot, carpet and 9000 rpm.

The suspension and handling to take a little time to become accustomed to, however only a drive in both can find out which works best for you. No surprise to you guys, but i've found changing the tyres transforms the car, totally.

[MrFlibbles]

C7 JFW said:

The steering in the s certainly lacks feel but you get a boot, carpet and 9000 rpm.

The suspension and handling to take a little time to become accustomed to, however only a drive in both can find out which works best for you. No surprise to you guys, but i've found changing the tyres transforms the car, totally.

What tyres do you run on it and how do you find them?

[RichyBoy]

I had one too. You can't go wrong with them for an everyday car you won't regret it, your probably end up missing the elise though.

[Russ H]

9000 rpm is fine for the first week or two.

I cant understand why the two cars ever get compared,
they're nothing like each other.

[havoc]

P.J. said:

...the handling left me scared to say the least.

I can only assume you've come from nice understeery fwd cars, or drove a nail of an S.

The S2000's handling is very good, IMHO. But it is susceptible to the geometry set-up, and also to cold tyres (any powerful rwd car is...try driving a modern TVR!).


My advice: Drive a couple, including (if possible) an S2ki member car - a lot us have 'optimised' the geometry and it makes a big difference.

[P.J.]

Tyres had warmed up, but when i came out of roundabout there was no warning of back end stepping out, it was not gradual just an 'Oh My God' and fling on the op lock. I have heard they leave the factory with variations in geometry settings and these do effect car. However having driven a Boxster and Cayman I felt these had more intimate and sublime handling and will be the next car for me. I would like a S2000 as the new price from carsupermarket, and its a Honda, should have this car as top spot. perhaps I should give another one a go.

[havoc]

I was going to say sounds like a granny-spec car, but the rest of your text suggests new cars. I THOUGHT the 06 suspension revisions were supposed to be beneficial though...interesting!

(Edit: It's never going to be MX-5 / Boxster playful, but with the right geo it IS exploitable...I'd describe it as an A-road car not a B-road car)

P.J. said:

However having driven a Boxster and Cayman I felt these had more intimate and sublime handling and will be the next car for me.

Much more expensive cars though, for the same performance. Hardly comparable. A 2.7 will be slaughtered by an S2000, yet costs more...while the 3.2 isn't MUCH quicker but is getting on for 50% more money. But I agree on the steering...

P.J. said:

I would like a S2000 as the new price from carsupermarket, and its a Honda, should have this car as top spot. perhaps I should give another one a go.

I would. Not sure where from though...certainly not a car-supermarket. If you're anywhere near the Midlands there's a private importer south of Leicester (forget the name, but well-known) who provide a good service and have some nice test-roads near them.

Alternatively, hop onto s2ki.co.uk and ask - they're a friendly bunch, should be able to help.

[Russ H]

I wouldn't say 'slaughtered' re the 2.7.

Russ.

[VTECMatt]

No offence but learn to drive the Elise, the S2000 is no better in the wet, having had experience in both.

[bga]

P.J. said:

Tyres had warmed up, but when i came out of roundabout there was no warning of back end stepping out, it was not gradual just an 'Oh My God' and fling on the op lock. I have heard they leave the factory with variations in geometry settings and these do effect car. However having driven a Boxster and Cayman I felt these had more intimate and sublime handling and will be the next car for me. I would like a S2000 as the new price from carsupermarket, and its a Honda, should have this car as top spot. perhaps I should give another one a go.

IMO the OMG moment is down to the S2000 feeling quite numb in the rear, compare it to something like an MX-5 when it's really easy to feel the back end stepping out. The signs are there, you just have to recognise them and get used to them. It'll never be a great drifter but I can't say I've had any really bad moments that weren't to be expected (hitting vtec in low gear coming off a damp roundabout for example).

[havoc]

bga said:

IMO the OMG moment is down to the S2000 feeling quite numb in the rear, compare it to something like an MX-5 when it's really easy to feel the back end stepping out. The signs are there, you just have to recognise them and get used to them. It'll never be a great drifter but I can't say I've had any really bad moments that weren't to be expected (hitting vtec in low gear coming off a damp roundabout for example).

Not driven an MX-5 enough to compare, but with the right geo the S2000 starts to communicate better, front-and-rear, and with some cross-braces it gets better still AND feels more rigid/predictable. Still not as good as the 'teg, if that helps, and in the dry I'd want space to push the back (just in case...), but in the wet I'm having a lot of fun on quiet roundabouts...

[bga]

havoc said:

bga said:

IMO the OMG moment is down to the S2000 feeling quite numb in the rear, compare it to something like an MX-5 when it's really easy to feel the back end stepping out. The signs are there, you just have to recognise them and get used to them. It'll never be a great drifter but I can't say I've had any really bad moments that weren't to be expected (hitting vtec in low gear coming off a damp roundabout for example).

Not driven an MX-5 enough to compare, but with the right geo the S2000 starts to communicate better, front-and-rear, and with some cross-braces it gets better still AND feels more rigid/predictable. Still not as good as the 'teg, if that helps, and in the dry I'd want space to push the back (just in case...), but in the wet I'm having a lot of fun on quiet roundabouts...

I was considering changing the geo but have got used to it now (running std settings for MY01 car) and there is more than enough communication to make empty roundabouts and junctions lots of fun

To be honest it took a little while to get used to it but all the signs are there, it just needed me to recalibrate so to speak.
I drove one with some tweaks and bracing a couple of months ago & the improvement at the front end I thought was a real improvement. If I was keeping mine I think I would go down that route.

[111RRR]

Owned 5 Elises over 8 years (including a 111R) but just changed to an '05 S2000 & can offer the following comparisons:

Handling in the wet can be equally tricky - would highly recommend geo setup to make the best of it.

If you're into track days the S2000 will never match the balance, agility or feel of the Elise. Steering has virtually no real feedback but at least the brake feel is much better than the terrible servo setup used on the 111R.

Build quality of the Honda makes even the best Elise feel like a kit car by comparison.

Ride quality of the S2000 isn't much better than the 111R because you're sitting so close to the rear axle line, though the seats are more comfortable (for me anyway). S2k is only slightly quieter on motorways due to similarly short gearing.

S2000 has a wider useful power band than the 111R and doesn't feel quite as short of torque, though it's still a bit wimpish. You still need to be ready to change down 3 or 4 gears if you really want it to move.

Depends how you intend to use it of course but I'd say the Honda is a better everyday car - if you want a great track day car, buy a 111S and supercharge it ;o)