Is VTEC the same as it used to be?

Is VTEC the same as it used to be?

Author
Discussion

King Mustard

Original Poster:

84 posts

90 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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I've recently been watching some YouTube videos of 'VTEC' reactions.

It seems fun.

In the videos, the cars seem to be at least 10 years old.

I went onto AutoTrader and searched for "VTEC" with models 2019 and newer and there are still many results:

577x Civic
309x Jazz
195x CR-V
176x HR-V

However, it appears even a basic Honda Jazz has an 'i-VTEC' engine.

I presume this won't have that same fun performance profile?

Was/is VTEC available with automatic transmissions?

Edited by King Mustard on Saturday 10th April 02:07


Edited by King Mustard on Saturday 10th April 02:15

underwhelmist

1,884 posts

141 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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I don't know about recent cars, but I had a mid-90s Civic ESi which was great fun, and you could definitely tell when the VTEC kicked in (yo).

I've now got a 16 year old CR-V with i-VTEC, and the VTEC has no discernible effect.

aka_kerrly

12,490 posts

217 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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Yes there are different types of VTEC in different Honda engines. Some use VTEC for economy reasons, others for performance.

The 80s/90s D & B series engines are the most notable for the aggressive change over when VTEC engages as it's a relatively primitive system which utilises cams with two profiles that physically get shifted over into position hence the slight delay which gives the KICK when it engages. VTEC can be a single cam, optimising the intake cam or twin cam, the latter gives the advantage of allowing different profiles to suit intake/exhaust sides. It is also quite easy on the older models to adjust the engagement point to make it lower in the rev range.

The later 00s F & K series type engines use I-VTEC which as the Intelligent part suggests is far more advance than the old system which only moves cam profiles, it also has the ability to advance/retard ability on each cam so it can constantly adjust for economy/optimum torque at lower revs whilst also having sufficient lift/duration to make power beyond 8000rpm.







Pebbles167

3,774 posts

159 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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Im no expert but as I understand it Vtec is Hondas trademark for hydraulic operation of variable cam profiles. Its utilized in different ways on various engines for different cars.

As well as performance it was designed for economy/efficiency, so in regular models it'll often function for this purpose primarily, so activating lower and increasing low RPM torque and maximising fuel consumption. Sometimes it works on just the intake valves, but often on exhaust to. It was present on most models made during the 90's through the 2000's, and think it was even on the first turbo Civic Type R although again used in a different way.

On sport models, itll be there for performance. If you want the famous and notable Vtec crossover, you'll find it in an older naturally aspirated Honda performance variant that uses it, ie: Accord, Civic, S2000, CRX, Del Sol, Prelude, Integra etc. Cheapest way to get it at the moment is probably the FN2 Civic Type R.

The Rotrex Kid

31,680 posts

167 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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You could get an EK4 in Japan with the B16A2 coupled with an auto box.

slipknotted

249 posts

44 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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Short answer is VTEC on modern cars is used for fuel economy and you'll barely feel it (my dad's 2017 1.4 i-VTEC Jazz was just awful) but on older and especially older performance models you'll feel it almost like hitting boost with more pull and a distinct change in engine note as the cam profile changes.

VTEC was paired with autos in a lot of configurations, 5th gen Prelude 2.2 for example (I'd quote more but cba for the research, I know they're out there though, the EK4 Civic as mentioned above) and of course all the dreadful modern uses of VTEC in every modern petrol Honda.

aka_kerrly

12,490 posts

217 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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slipknotted said:
Short answer is VTEC on modern cars is used for fuel economy and you'll barely feel it (my dad's 2017 1.4 i-VTEC Jazz was just awful) but on older and especially older performance models you'll feel it almost like hitting boost with more pull and a distinct change in engine note as the cam profile changes.
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Maybe you should say that on Non Type R models VTEC is utilised for the benefit of economy and performance where as on type R models it is very much for performance.
The Type R engines have much more aggressive cams an timing combined with higher compression ratios and are nothing like your dad's Jazzlaugh

slipknotted

249 posts

44 months

Saturday 10th April 2021
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aka_kerrly said:
Maybe you should say that on Non Type R models VTEC is utilised for the benefit of economy and performance where as on type R models it is very much for performance.
The Type R engines have much more aggressive cams an timing combined with higher compression ratios and are nothing like your dad's Jazzlaugh
You're right there haha but the Type Rs of the last ten years have their performance more impacted by turbos than VTEC if I'm not wrong? I mean I haven't driven one so I can't really answer but as a general rule, as other posters have mentioned VTEC is more noticeable on older NA Hondas and recently it's just one of many methods used to extract power and fuel economy.

s2kjock

1,764 posts

154 months

Sunday 11th April 2021
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At one time I owned both a car and motorcycle with VTEC, albeit different systems - the bike VTEC engine just used fewer valves at lower revs.

I loved the VTEC kick in the S2000, but don't recall the same sort of "boost" on the VFR, although the bike was so much quicker anyway it was all relative.

The VFR VTEC was quite controversial due to its engine characteristics which I don't think were really related to the VTEC transition, but the VTEC version was never as successful or popular as the previous non-VTEC version of the VFR. I'm not sure the VTEC on the VFR really helped with fuel consumption - I was never especially impressed by that aspect of ownership, and I rode it fairly sedately biggrin

Honda Marine outboards also used VTEC and that was the same system as in the car engines I believe.

aka_kerrly

12,490 posts

217 months

Monday 12th April 2021
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slipknotted said:
aka_kerrly said:
Maybe you should say that on Non Type R models VTEC is utilised for the benefit of economy and performance where as on type R models it is very much for performance.
The Type R engines have much more aggressive cams an timing combined with higher compression ratios and are nothing like your dad's Jazzlaugh
You're right there haha but the Type Rs of the last ten years have their performance more impacted by turbos than VTEC if I'm not wrong? I mean I haven't driven one so I can't really answer but as a general rule, as other posters have mentioned VTEC is more noticeable on older NA Hondas and recently it's just one of many methods used to extract power and fuel economy.
To be honest I was absolutely stunned the first time I experienced a Honda CRX 1.6 SIR with the B16a 160hp lump in it, that thing got to 6000rpm and went a bit mental - it felt like if there was no rev limiter it would just keep going an going!!
Then a few years later I tried a Civic VTI-S MB6 hatchback - essentially a Rover 400 with a detuned Honda Integra 1.8 engine and much longer gears. It was the gears that killed the VTEC sensation completely.
After that a DC2 Integra which has much shorter gears and really punches through the rev range even before you get to VTEC. I currently have a Civic Type R ep3 with the K20 engine and standard VTEC crossover at 5700rpm means you really need to wind every gear out to make sure you stay on the wild cams otherwise there is the slight delay. Its fun though when you short shift just at the VTEC crossover point as it makes a wild bark.

The main difference compared with other 16v engines I have had from VW, BMW, Toyota is that the Honda engine makes normal driving so much easier and responsive whilst offering the benefit of wilder cams when you need them. When for example I had higher lift/longer duration cams put into a VW 2.0 16v engine, it went from around 160hp to 180hp at 7300rpm which was GREAT, however under 4000revs it was making marginally less power an torque compared with the standard engine.

The Rotrex Kid

31,680 posts

167 months

Monday 12th April 2021
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After smashing around in B series EK’s, the first time I drove a standard EP3 I was completely underwhelmed hehe

An induction kit soon sorts it though.

dobly

1,292 posts

166 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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Read the Wikipedia page about VTEC - it is pretty comprehensive.
My experience of VTEC is with older, DOHC VTEC. - a 1.6 VT CRX and an 3.2 NA2 NSX.

Btw, the automatic NSX had VTEC from the start in 1991.


KPB1973

929 posts

106 months

Tuesday 13th April 2021
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Not all Vtec engines behave the same. The crossover is a lot less pronounced in something like an ep3 or s2000 than the older cars. The b-series (and to a lesser extent) the h22 lumps were much more aggressive.

There's plenty of acceleration vids on YT that demonstrate this.

chrismc1977

854 posts

119 months

Friday 7th May 2021
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H & B series engines were the earliest VTEC incarnations- & as such had the most pronounced crossovers. Some of this was deliberately mapped in to give a suitable crossover from the drivers seat.

The later K series not only alters the cam profile as before but also adjusts cam duration as well so the net result is it feels less dramatic

Super Sonic

7,302 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th May 2021
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Have two VTEC cars. The em2 civic has a single can d17 with economy VTEC. It only opens one inlet valve below 3k, then both above. It is barely noticeable. Tha Accord type R has a twincam h22 which shifts to a higher profile cam ( by engaging rocker arms ) at 5.8k. It is very noticeable, both in acceleration and the angry noise! It does have big bore exhaust and k&n induction kit though, they're not all that loud!