CTR FN2 - Track road set up

[handbraketurn]

Recently bought a CTR as temp daily and for some track days over summer, transitioning into track car when get a new company car.

Would like to improve handling but also improve the ride quality.

Booked into TDI to get pads upgraded, brake fluids replaced. And trying to work out what to do with chasis.

Initially planning eibach springs with standard dampers, along with camber bolts/sheers and their infamous fast road set up. Which I know others have done and had great results.

Given my car is quite high miles and I'm paying all the labour to take springs off, would seem sensible to replace the shocks. Either with OEM or Sachs (which everyone on forum seems to say is same as OEM but cheaper?). Latter is about £88 delivered.

Given the damping is pretty poor as standard on road and track (especially road), I have started to look at alternatives for dampers to see if can improve things. As with all these things, you start off with a sensible budget and it keeps creeping up. I looked at the Bilstein B6, not a huge amount of reviews but a few raving fans on the forums. However, the cost of these is £550ish. Plus springs (£180) starting to edge towards Coilovers money.

Anyone replaced the dampers with eibachs can share experience?

I'm also looking at Coilovers, but that takes the price up fairly dramatically, I've also got to buy spare wheels, track tyres and feet some work carried out on the gearbox. So it's starting to add up.

However, I'd rather spend a bit more now and get it over and done with, than buy cheap and have to do it over again. So if coil overs are significantly better, I might just stretch to it.

Any advice would be really helpful.

Cheers,

HBT

[Willber]

Interested in the replies to this. I am looking at getting an FN2 and have been researching the poor ride. As you say whilst all that work is being done it makes sense to chuck some other new bits on there too. Ive read reports of people saying the progressive springs dont actually make much difference and the only real way is to change the dampers. Also going to 17" wheels supposedly helps. There are also those who say the ride is fine as is!

If you look at Jayemm on cars on YouTube, you will find a review of an fn2 which is running 17's and Meister R coilovers. It seems that is a good solution.

[handbraketurn]

I've gone for Eibachs with standard springs, assuming inspection doesn't show the shocks to be damaged. It's roughly £650 with labour.

Upgrade pads and fluids just over £250.

I got a spare pair of wheels for £300 (can get a rougher pair for c£150-200) and And got a set of track tyres for £350.

All in all not a huge amount, which is what I wanted, a cheap track car that would be fun and realisable.

People I know that had these as track/ring toys said Eibachs and FRS was more than adequate as regular track car and improved the road manors.

I'm yet to be convinced, I took it out down a country road I know which is quite un-even and bumpy today and it was not fun at all, just bumps and jumps up and down like a mad thing, it's so jiggly it's like being thrown around in a giant trampoline at times, especially when everything in the car crashes over big bumps. Also feels floaty at high speed, and pitches and dives under braking, with the car squirrelling and rotating under heavy breaking too.

It is however, quite good on track out of the box, albeit a bit understeer-ish, as you'd except, it carries good speed and the engine loves to rev. You can get the car to pitch into the apex lifting off or trial breaking and it feels well balanced and has plenty of grip. Again the brakes let it down but fine as long as you get your breaking down at the right times.

Time will tell if the springs and geometry transform the car as I have been promised.

[Willber]

handbraketurn said:

I've gone for Eibachs with standard springs, assuming inspection doesn't show the shocks to be damaged. It's roughly £650 with labour.

Upgrade pads and fluids just over £250.

I got a spare pair of wheels for £300 (can get a rougher pair for c£150-200) and And got a set of track tyres for £350.

All in all not a huge amount, which is what I wanted, a cheap track car that would be fun and realisable.

People I know that had these as track/ring toys said Eibachs and FRS was more than adequate as regular track car and improved the road manors.

I'm yet to be convinced, I took it out down a country road I know which is quite un-even and bumpy today and it was not fun at all, just bumps and jumps up and down like a mad thing, it's so jiggly it's like being thrown around in a giant trampoline at times, especially when everything in the car crashes over big bumps. Also feels floaty at high speed, and pitches and dives under braking, with the car squirrelling and rotating under heavy breaking too.

It is however, quite good on track out of the box, albeit a bit understeer-ish, as you'd except, it carries good speed and the engine loves to rev. You can get the car to pitch into the apex lifting off or trial breaking and it feels well balanced and has plenty of grip. Again the brakes let it down but fine as long as you get your breaking down at the right times.

Time will tell if the springs and geometry transform the car as I have been promised.

I'm assuming that country lane drive was as standard? If so i really look forward to hearing if the eibachs make as bag a difference as claimed. I couldn't be doing with that level of discomfort or body control, it reminds me if my old MK2 Golf which was very stiff and not much fun on certain roads!

[Willber]

Just to bump this......

I went for a drive in a 2010 FN2 with 65k on the clock earlier. I was expecting the ride to be horrendous based on comments I have read however, i thought it was obviously firm and bouncy but it didn't crash around and felt fine over speed bumps. I can imagine it could get annoying during every day driving but certainly not as bad as I have seen it made out. This was on standard suspension and 18" wheels. I am on the look out for one now! I dont commute so it will be a weekend and fun car and has acres of space for my mountain bike in the back.

[leemanning]

I've just had my 2010 FN2 overhauled by the guys at TDI. It should be back with me next week. Like yourself this is a daily that will also be used for trackdays, so I wanted something sorted but sensible. In the end we did the following:

- New slotted discs & yellowstuff pads front and rear
- Braided lines
- High performance brake fluid
- Tein coilovers set to 15mm drop and softer than OEM for rebound
- Eibach 15mm spacers
- HKS induction kit
- ECUtek remap

Plans will be to do a track day next month and then change the tyres for something like the Pilot Sport 4S's.

I'll let you know how I'm finding it once it's back with me. I'd originally planned to do the Eibach springs and FRS, but my front shocks were in poor condition so decided to spend the extra few hundred on going for coilovers.

It was quite an expensive overhaul, but I think it's going to transform the car

[handbraketurn]

Willber said:

Just to bump this......

I went for a drive in a 2010 FN2 with 65k on the clock earlier. I was expecting the ride to be horrendous based on comments I have read however, i thought it was obviously firm and bouncy but it didn't crash around and felt fine over speed bumps. I can imagine it could get annoying during every day driving but certainly not as bad as I have seen it made out. This was on standard suspension and 18" wheels. I am on the look out for one now! I dont commute so it will be a weekend and fun car and has acres of space for my mountain bike in the back.

I should update, the reason mine had such a shoddy ride was because the shocks were leaking.

You'll be paying quite strong money for a 2010 one with low miles, if its got the LSD that's probably worth paying a premium for although, the Wavetrac is much better than the Honda one. Engines are bullet proof if maintained. But obviously higher mileage cars might have worn shocks and other components like mine. However, if you plan to swap to coil overs (recommended) then doesn't really matter.

Mine was 09, with 94k, I paid £4.4k for mine from a dealer and got a service and warranty thrown in. In hindsight, should have told him not to bother with the warranty and take if off the price. The bodywork was a little scruffy at the front, the lacquer had pealed on the bumper, quite common, but I have sorted that out very cheaply.

That's the greatest thing about EP3s and FN2s, cheap parts brand new but there are plenty being broken for parts, mostly being sold on FB marketplace. I got a whole front bumper section with fog lights for £250. And getting it fitted for c£50. And I'll probably still get £100 for my bumper even in its poor state.

leemanning said:

I've just had my 2010 FN2 overhauled by the guys at TDI. It should be back with me next week. Like yourself this is a daily that will also be used for trackdays, so I wanted something sorted but sensible. In the end we did the following:

- New slotted discs & yellowstuff pads front and rear
- Braided lines
- High performance brake fluid
- Tein coilovers set to 15mm drop and softer than OEM for rebound
- Eibach 15mm spacers
- HKS induction kit
- ECUtek remap

Plans will be to do a track day next month and then change the tyres for something like the Pilot Sport 4S's.

I'll let you know how I'm finding it once it's back with me. I'd originally planned to do the Eibach springs and FRS, but my front shocks were in poor condition so decided to spend the extra few hundred on going for coilovers.

It was quite an expensive overhaul, but I think it's going to transform the car

Nice!

My set up is similar.

-BC Coil overs
-Polybushes
-FRS geo with Eibach camber bolts/shims
-Valve timings done (5k early, but worth doing)
-Gearbox oil replaced
-Gear stick bushes put in to make the gear change less stogy.
-Performance brake fluids
-Ferodo DS2500 pads
-HKS RSK intake
-EcuTek remap
-Spare set of wheels with Nankang NS-2R's for now, but will try something else after, have had negative feedback from many.

It's now running 218bhp not dramatic grains but it gives way more power mid range and just feels smoother, more refined and more usable. Sounds quite fruity too.

Left standard discs for now, as they've got plenty of life, but will replace with Pagid ones when they die, which will probably be in a few weeks given how many track days I have booked. And probably put braided hoses on at that point also. The DS2500 pads are good, but brakes are still a weak point on this car, personally I'm not planning to go down the big brake route, too expensive.

It's had its first track day on the new set up with track tyres and it was very good, quick enough and plenty of grip, was able to keep pace with most people. It obviously suffers from pick up, the key is to keep the momentum going so you can keep it on the boil. I'm still learning how to extract most out of it.

With the BC coils on the softest setting its really quite refined and comfortable on the road. It's still fairly firm and will bob over bigger bumps in the road, but still feels well damped. I've driven 1.6k miles in the past week on long journeys with motorway and b-roads and it was great. You can pull over and put the damper ratings up for a fun road, but even on the softer setting it was really a lot of fun on country roads. It's only a 15mm drop, so you can get over speed humps, but it feels a bit harsh unless you got slow and you can hear the dampers groaning, so best to creep over them if you can. And with really harsh ones, it's possible to scrape to bumper. Given it's all plastic down there, best not too.

The next thing for me is to get a baffled oil sump modification and replacement oil pump, the only thing that can kill these engines on track is oil surges from G-force. So it's quite important to get that done for the faster tracks.

if I keep it long term, Wavetrac LSD, performance clutch and lightweight flywheel. Inlet/outlet manifolds and exhaust and get the map-redone, aiming for 235-240bhp. Probably a performance radiator and fan to keep things cool. And possibly a half cage and strip out.

But with that kind of investment, I might be tempted to pass it on and get something RWD.

So far I'm pretty happy with it and would definitely recommend as a fun track car.

Edited by handbraketurn on Tuesday 4th August 12:48

[Willber]

Really interesting to read a couple of different experiences!

I bought a 2007 car a couple of weeks ago. Its done 86k with very good history including a couple of gearbox oil changes, clutch change and valve clearance check. Its on new Michelin Pilot Sport 4's and has green stuff pads and drilled and grooved discs.

I am enjoying it so far and find the ride OK (i dont drive it every day) and it sits on the motorway happily enough. I am going to service it soon with plugs and also do the PCV and top pulley for preventative maintenance. It has a k&n panel filter fitted so induction sound is slightly increased already.

It does have a slightly annoying a/c water leak from the pollen filter, i have blown an airline through the a/c drain hose and can see it dripping from there so dont think its being caused by that. I have had the air con regassed too so the levels are correct. I am hoping a new pollen filter lid may help by sealing the compartment better.

Otherwise i think i will just enjoy the car as is for now and perhaps look to replace the suspension next year once ive had it a while. Im also keen to do shifter bushings at the cable end and also the ones under the shifter itself in the cabin. Probably get a new gear knob too but the more I drive it the more I get used to the standard one. I usually find these type of subtle modifications can increase the driving feel quite a bit.

[Willber]

I fixed the water leak with a new pollen filter cover from honda, think the sponge bit had gone flat and the edges had come off causing it to leak.

Also did big service including plugs. Unfortunately i noticed (after checking a week or so before) that the driver side front shock was leaking. Not uncommon on these cars. It quickly deteriorated over the next week so i ordered new Sachs ones with honda top mounts and new drop links. This has made a huge difference and the car is nuch better on the road and the ride is much better. I think most of these cars now are on tired and worn shocks and hence get absolutely slated for their ride. On new oem stuff it is very acceptable for how stiff the car is. I am going to put new rear shocks on as they are probably past their best, after that wheel alignment and it should be not far off new.

[handbraketurn]

Willber said:

I fixed the water leak with a new pollen filter cover from honda, think the sponge bit had gone flat and the edges had come off causing it to leak.

Also did big service including plugs. Unfortunately i noticed (after checking a week or so before) that the driver side front shock was leaking. Not uncommon on these cars. It quickly deteriorated over the next week so i ordered new Sachs ones with honda top mounts and new drop links. This has made a huge difference and the car is nuch better on the road and the ride is much better. I think most of these cars now are on tired and worn shocks and hence get absolutely slated for their ride. On new oem stuff it is very acceptable for how stiff the car is. I am going to put new rear shocks on as they are probably past their best, after that wheel alignment and it should be not far off new.

If you're on a budget, Sachs seems the best option. The ones removed from mine (Honda OEM) actually had Sachs written on them as well. I would definitely recommend coil overs if budgets allowed. At the very least eibachs and FRS with your Sachs.

RE: brakes.

Mine has drilled and grooved discs at front, I find them awful, the vibration under heavy loads makes already squidgy brakes feel even worse. Tegiwa have recommended the pagid plain discs, which are used in the Civic Cup, I'm getting these fitted. If I keep this as a long term track car, I will seriously look into big brakes, as breaking is one of the big issues for me at the moment.

I'd also consider a Mugen front bumper, not for the styling or downforce particularly, but the four vents, two for engine bay and two for front brakes, to keep the brakes cool.

Update on my project:

Engine is getting racing inlet/outlet manifolds, and a TDI north exhaust (which they assure me does not fall foul of T/day noise limits).

I'm also getting a M Factory helical LSD, exedy OEM clutch and clockwise baffled sump with FD2 oil pump.

After which, I'll be getting the ECUTEK re-run with the new set up, will be interesting to see how much power it generates.

I read in one of the Civic forums someone with the 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, HKS intake and TDI-N exhaust he was running 236 BHP. The inlet manifold is supposed to be good for 10-15bhp, and believe if it or no, the oil pump conversion is also 5-10bhp, which means in theory, this could be running 250-260bhp NA after those basic mods and remap.


Bedford Autodrome a couple of weeks ago: https://vimeo.com/443058437

Edited by handbraketurn on Tuesday 4th August 12:54

[Mark-t]

handbraketurn said:

If you're on a budget, Sachs seems the best option. The ones removed from mine (Honda OEM) actually had Sachs written on them as well. I would definitely recommend coil overs if budgets allowed. At the very least eibachs and FRS with your Sachs.

RE: brakes.

Mine has drilled and grooved discs at front, I find them awful, the vibration under heavy loads makes already squidgy brakes feel even worse. Tegiwa have recommended the pagid plain discs, which are used in the Civic Cup, I'm getting these fitted. If I keep this as a long term track car, I will seriously look into big brakes, as breaking is one of the big issues for me at the moment.

I'd also consider a Mugen front bumper, not for the styling or downforce particularly, but the four vents, two for engine bay and two for front brakes, to keep the brakes cool.

Update on my project:

Engine is getting racing inlet/outlet manifolds, and a TDI north exhaust (which they assure me does not fall foul of T/day noise limits).

I'm also getting a M Factory helical LSD, exedy OEM clutch and clockwise baffled sump with FD2 oil pump.

After which, I'll be getting the ECUTEK re-run with the new set up, will be interesting to see how much power it generates.

I read in one of the Civic forums someone with the 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, HKS intake and TDI-N exhaust he was running 236 BHP. The inlet manifold is supposed to be good for 10-15bhp, and believe if it or no, the oil pump conversion is also 5-10bhp, which means in theory, this could be running 250-260bhp NA after those basic mods and remap.


Bedford Autodrome a couple of weeks ago: https://vimeo.com/443058437

Edited by handbraketurn on Tuesday 4th August 12:54

I very much doubt you'll get 250+bhp in an fn2 with just breathing mods and oil pump conversion unfortunately, due to the exhaust design / routing under the car. IMO, you'll need updated camshafts (or more) to reach those figures.

I would recommend sticking with a Honda clutch as the Exedy thrust bearing is known not to last as long.

I had Stoptech touring front brakes on my fn2 and found them superb. The Whiteline rear anti-roll bar also made for a superb handling little car, even on standard suspension.

[handbraketurn]

Mark-t said:

I very much doubt you'll get 250+bhp in an fn2 with just breathing mods and oil pump conversion unfortunately, due to the exhaust design / routing under the car. IMO, you'll need updated camshafts (or more) to reach those figures.

I would recommend sticking with a Honda clutch as the Exedy thrust bearing is known not to last as long.

I had Stoptech touring front brakes on my fn2 and found them superb. The Whiteline rear anti-roll bar also made for a superb handling little car, even on standard suspension.

I'd be happy with 240bhp to be honest, but I'm just going on the marketing material and what I've read in forums. Should find out in approx a weeks time. Mine was running 218bhp with just the HKS and remap.

Thanks for heads up on the Whiteline ARB.

Mine's got bushes on the front but not the rear, I have the rear bushes but my tuner didn't have time last time, and it handles pretty well in its current set up, but when I got back to get the bushes done, the geo will need to be done again, and I might look at the ARB too.

How much where the Stop techs? Did you change rear breaks or leave standard?

[handbraketurn]

https://www.tegiwaimports.com/honda-fd2-oil-pump-c...

"HONDA FD2 Oil Pump kit. This genuine kit replaces the original FN2 oil pump which has balance shafts and using this kit gives gains between 5-10bhp - dyno proven! "

I don't fully understand, but think it removes some of the drag on the engine with the balance shafts.

https://www.tegiwaimports.com/honda-rrc-inlet-mani...

"Expect gains of around 5-10bhp over the standard FN2 inlet manifold."

If the HKS intake + Japspeed exhaust manifold + TDI North exhaust and a remap + EcuTek is 234bhp, 245bhp seems achievable based on the above.

[handbraketurn]

Does anyone know which cat-back exhausts will not breach track sound limits?

I had planned to get the TDI North custom 3" which has a cut out removal section which you can fit a MOT friendly cat full time or temporarily as you wish.

But also apparently been tuned to not breach UK track sound limits.

Unfortunately the only time I can get there to get the map done, is a weeks time and they've currently out of stock and won't replenish in time.

Any other options that will keep noise below 101db or less?

Cheers,

HBT