EP2 - Next car upgrade = EP3 or FN2
Discussion
Hi there,
right now I have a 2005 EP2 (1.6 Sport) civic, seems a good little car but I did want something a bit quicker in the near future, I am using the EP2 to get my no claims, I currently have 1 yrs.
I just enjoy driving and wanted something with more torque as I am used to motorcycles and miss the thrill of them, their noise and ease of power.
I won't touch diesels due to living close to the new ultra low emission zones and feel it could affect re-sale value plus diesel civic seem to kill clutches and well diesel isn't very fun in my opinion.
I have been looking at the 2001-2005 Type R (EP3) it would be the face lift version and also 2006-2010 (I think) Civic 1.8 S Type (FN2) and wanted to see peoples opinions on both cars and which they would recommend and why?
As long as it does 30+ mpg and are generally reliable.
Plus points for the 1.8?
Plus points for the Type R?
Is the 1.8 a good compromise between power, driveability and running costs?
right now I have a 2005 EP2 (1.6 Sport) civic, seems a good little car but I did want something a bit quicker in the near future, I am using the EP2 to get my no claims, I currently have 1 yrs.
I just enjoy driving and wanted something with more torque as I am used to motorcycles and miss the thrill of them, their noise and ease of power.
I won't touch diesels due to living close to the new ultra low emission zones and feel it could affect re-sale value plus diesel civic seem to kill clutches and well diesel isn't very fun in my opinion.
I have been looking at the 2001-2005 Type R (EP3) it would be the face lift version and also 2006-2010 (I think) Civic 1.8 S Type (FN2) and wanted to see peoples opinions on both cars and which they would recommend and why?
As long as it does 30+ mpg and are generally reliable.
Plus points for the 1.8?
Plus points for the Type R?
Is the 1.8 a good compromise between power, driveability and running costs?
I've owned an EP2, 2x EP3s and currently the 1.8 Type S (I think it may be the FN1 rather than FN2, the 2 may just be the R?).
Anyway, I moved from an EP2 to an EP3. I wanted the greater speed, noise and just the fact it was the "proper" one. They are great, sound lovely too and lots of aftermarket parts available if that's your thing. They are difficult to find good ones. Plus depending on how it would be used they aren't the most civilised. Noisey at 6th on a motorway and lots of people complain about torque but I never found it a problem. I think I averaged about 30 MPG (200-250 miles to £50ish).
The 1.8 is a lovely car, but it definitely fulfills a different purpose to the EP3. You can get ones with a lot of toys like cruise etc... and I find it nice to drive. It's cheap to run and I'm confident in the reliability. According to the trip computer I get around 45 MPG (400 miles to £50ish) which is great for me. There are complaints about ride quality and rattles (I have a few!), so something to check.
It depends how you want to use it. If I was looking for cheap fun, EP3. A decent and cheap daily upgrade from the EP2 I'd go with the 1.8. In all honesty, if your budget can stretch I'd look for an FN2 Type R as the best of both!
Anyway, I moved from an EP2 to an EP3. I wanted the greater speed, noise and just the fact it was the "proper" one. They are great, sound lovely too and lots of aftermarket parts available if that's your thing. They are difficult to find good ones. Plus depending on how it would be used they aren't the most civilised. Noisey at 6th on a motorway and lots of people complain about torque but I never found it a problem. I think I averaged about 30 MPG (200-250 miles to £50ish).
The 1.8 is a lovely car, but it definitely fulfills a different purpose to the EP3. You can get ones with a lot of toys like cruise etc... and I find it nice to drive. It's cheap to run and I'm confident in the reliability. According to the trip computer I get around 45 MPG (400 miles to £50ish) which is great for me. There are complaints about ride quality and rattles (I have a few!), so something to check.
It depends how you want to use it. If I was looking for cheap fun, EP3. A decent and cheap daily upgrade from the EP2 I'd go with the 1.8. In all honesty, if your budget can stretch I'd look for an FN2 Type R as the best of both!
Thanks for the reply.
You're correct, it would be the FN1 and the FN2 is the R.
I am not really in to the aftermarket aspect, I think it can be a money pit but the 45mpg seems really good, if I got 35/40 mpg from the 1.8 S Type I would be happy, currently get 35 mpg from the EP2 and a bit more in the summer time.
I do not do a lot of driving really but it's nice to have something fun for when I do drive, do you think the S Type FN1 could be considered fun? Do you know if the boot space is as big as the EP2/EP3 when the seats are down? I tinker with bicycles and will need to post some so need a boot that can take 150cm long box.
Is the lack of rear window wiper an issue for the FN1?
I see a lot of EP3's on 130,000+ miles and even though they are seen as very reliable cars it puts me off a little bit.
You're correct, it would be the FN1 and the FN2 is the R.
I am not really in to the aftermarket aspect, I think it can be a money pit but the 45mpg seems really good, if I got 35/40 mpg from the 1.8 S Type I would be happy, currently get 35 mpg from the EP2 and a bit more in the summer time.
I do not do a lot of driving really but it's nice to have something fun for when I do drive, do you think the S Type FN1 could be considered fun? Do you know if the boot space is as big as the EP2/EP3 when the seats are down? I tinker with bicycles and will need to post some so need a boot that can take 150cm long box.
Is the lack of rear window wiper an issue for the FN1?
I see a lot of EP3's on 130,000+ miles and even though they are seen as very reliable cars it puts me off a little bit.
If you want something usefully quicker then it has to be a Type R.
EP3’s are plentiful & offer decent bang for your buck. Also a known quantity if you have an EP2
FN2 looks more modern but not quite as good dynamically.
Mileage really isn’t an issue if it’s been looked after. Plenty of crashed/ragged examples though so just take care when choosing....
EP3’s are plentiful & offer decent bang for your buck. Also a known quantity if you have an EP2
FN2 looks more modern but not quite as good dynamically.
Mileage really isn’t an issue if it’s been looked after. Plenty of crashed/ragged examples though so just take care when choosing....
Warcloud36 said:
Thanks for the reply.
You're correct, it would be the FN1 and the FN2 is the R.
I am not really in to the aftermarket aspect, I think it can be a money pit but the 45mpg seems really good, if I got 35/40 mpg from the 1.8 S Type I would be happy, currently get 35 mpg from the EP2 and a bit more in the summer time.
I do not do a lot of driving really but it's nice to have something fun for when I do drive, do you think the S Type FN1 could be considered fun? Do you know if the boot space is as big as the EP2/EP3 when the seats are down? I tinker with bicycles and will need to post some so need a boot that can take 150cm long box.
Is the lack of rear window wiper an issue for the FN1?
I see a lot of EP3's on 130,000+ miles and even though they are seen as very reliable cars it puts me off a little bit.
I looked this morning and I got 41 MPG from the last tank, dropped a bit given the cold but 35-40 should be easily achievable! You're correct, it would be the FN1 and the FN2 is the R.
I am not really in to the aftermarket aspect, I think it can be a money pit but the 45mpg seems really good, if I got 35/40 mpg from the 1.8 S Type I would be happy, currently get 35 mpg from the EP2 and a bit more in the summer time.
I do not do a lot of driving really but it's nice to have something fun for when I do drive, do you think the S Type FN1 could be considered fun? Do you know if the boot space is as big as the EP2/EP3 when the seats are down? I tinker with bicycles and will need to post some so need a boot that can take 150cm long box.
Is the lack of rear window wiper an issue for the FN1?
I see a lot of EP3's on 130,000+ miles and even though they are seen as very reliable cars it puts me off a little bit.
I would say the boot space is bigger than the EP model, the seats fold completely flat too which is a bonus. As you know the seats on the EP don't go quite flat which does make it harder with larger boxes pushing them in "up hill". I don't know if it meets the 150CM criteria but if it fits in an EP I can't see why it wouldn't in the FN.
The rear window is an odd one certainly. The lack of a rear wiper isn't too bad as the bit you mainly use to see out of is the flat rear section and that stays pretty clear. On the mornings around this time of year it does get the standing water on it but this doesn't take long to clear. If you do lots of reversing it may need a wipe, but I haven't found it a huge problem for how I use it.
Also worth noting where the rear window sections meet there is a large black plastic bit of trim going across the length of it. This does a good job at stopping car headlights from behind blinding you, but when there are bumps it can look like you're being flashed as the appear/disappear behind the trim. Not a massive issue but it does take a little getting used to at first!
Fun is somewhat subjective, the 1.8 FN definitely feels large and the weight does hinder it in the turns sometimes. It can get a bit of a move on if you want it to though, especially compared to the EP2. For a daily car it is fun enough I feel, but occasional use I'm not so sure, it is a bit "normal". Compared to an EP3 I'd go EP3 every time for fun.
I'd have a look at both and maybe drive both if you can and there are some local to you.
I guess I will need to see them in person, my heart says ep3 but my mind says the fn1 would be a good upgrade in terms of refinement over the ep2 but on paper, they seem quite similar performance wise at least.
There was a 2002 EP3 77k on the clock fsh near me up for £3500 ono which seemed reasonable but I don't know, I paid 1700 for my ep2, which is fsh 84k, clean car which seems a lot when you can get a 2010 Astra sxi for a bit more, it wasn't an expensive car for me to buy, just seems it held it's value well and the options were slim.
What is a good EP3 worth? Good as in FSH, clean body, not written off, upto 100k miles.
There was a 2002 EP3 77k on the clock fsh near me up for £3500 ono which seemed reasonable but I don't know, I paid 1700 for my ep2, which is fsh 84k, clean car which seems a lot when you can get a 2010 Astra sxi for a bit more, it wasn't an expensive car for me to buy, just seems it held it's value well and the options were slim.
What is a good EP3 worth? Good as in FSH, clean body, not written off, upto 100k miles.
Warcloud36 said:
What is a good EP3 worth? Good as in FSH, clean body, not written off, upto 100k miles.
Average around 3k, I paid 3k for a good spec (lowering springs, semi slicks, good brakes, intake and exhaust) facelift ep3 with fsh but on 100k. I think up to 3K gets you a really nice pre-facelift, or a decent facelift, 3/4k gets you a good choice of low milage facelift cars, then 4k+ for a prem edition.The thing with EP3's is that there now at the bottom of the market really, prices wont change much so you wont lose much if any when you come to move it on, parts and breakers are plentiful and there is a lot of options out there. Dont get me wrong though, theres plenty high milers that have been ragged and not looked after, buy on condition/history rather than milage.
I cant really comment on the EP3 vs FN argument as ive never driven an FN, ive heard a lot of people say that the FN is a nicer daily though, but the EP3 is more fun overall. I really enjoyed my EP3, i only got rid to swap to a DC5.
chrismc1977 said:
Surely a little bit of research & a scan through PH classifieds & Autotrader should give you an idea?
They are like 5k plus on here, low mileage ultra clean examples, maybe autotrader and ebay, I will keep an eye on prices. Ellb123 said:
buy on condition/history rather than milage.
That's a good point, I get hung up on the mileage numbers.I would be happy to drop 3k on one if it has all the relevant paper work and has been as well looked after as I can expect a type R of that age to be.
Edited by Warcloud36 on Monday 17th December 16:49
I went from EP3 to 1.8 FN1 to an FN2 so have owned and driven them all
The EP3 was the best handling, best sounding of the lot. The VTEC engagement was very addictive! Any excuse for a second gear blast!
The FN1 was a big step up in refinement, good on fuel but lacked the excitement of the EP3
The FN2 was quite different to the FN1. The ride can only be described as stiff! On a long journey, the FN2 is a better place to be than the EP3 but for almost every other journey, the EP3 is the better car
Long term fuel on the FN1 was high 30s/low 40s to the gallon. FN2 was around the 30-32mpg, maybe up to 38 if I was being gentler.
Hope that helps a bit. Any questions, feel free!
The EP3 was the best handling, best sounding of the lot. The VTEC engagement was very addictive! Any excuse for a second gear blast!
The FN1 was a big step up in refinement, good on fuel but lacked the excitement of the EP3
The FN2 was quite different to the FN1. The ride can only be described as stiff! On a long journey, the FN2 is a better place to be than the EP3 but for almost every other journey, the EP3 is the better car
Long term fuel on the FN1 was high 30s/low 40s to the gallon. FN2 was around the 30-32mpg, maybe up to 38 if I was being gentler.
Hope that helps a bit. Any questions, feel free!
Warcloud36 said:
There was a 2002 EP3 77k on the clock fsh near me up for £3500 ono which seemed reasonable but I don't know, I paid 1700 for my ep2, which is fsh 84k, clean car which seems a lot when you can get a 2010 Astra sxi for a bit more, it wasn't an expensive car for me to buy, just seems it held it's value well and the options were slim.
What is a good EP3 worth? Good as in FSH, clean body, not written off, upto 100k miles.
Once you've driven both you will appreciate why people find an EP3 more desirable than a MK5 Astra. What is a good EP3 worth? Good as in FSH, clean body, not written off, upto 100k miles.
There are a good number of EP3s around at the moment and £3500 would get you toward the middle/ upper range of quality. It depends on your preference but I would recommend buying the best condition type r with good history and evidence of things like clutch, timing chain/valve adjustment, suspension/steering/brake components being replaced and premium tyres would be a bonus. Are you aware of the different versions available , a Premium is considered desirable, I personally prefer the prefacelift 30th Anniversary editions which are rarer. options wise , AC is nice to have, fog lights to, only a small number of people are interested but a leather interior (I have it in mine) is also a rare factory option.
My current one is a 52plate on 118k, it's proven reliable and a joy to own. It now has upgraded suspension,exhaust & intake and wider/stickier tyres. To be honest though I'm at a crossroads , do I sell it, spend a bit more on a LSD & KPRO but then I'm half tempted to import a JDM EP3 or something else. Time to book a trackday in the Spring and give it a good drive & see how i feel.
I've driven FN2 Type R to and found them to be a massive disappointment in standard form, they are far too well insulated and remote feeling , even after vtec changeover you can barely hear the engine roar, a Type S might well be considerably softer in the suspension department which ought to make it a bit more friendly on UK roads but the R on low profile tyres felt harsh and I am VERY accustomed to driving cars with lowered/altered suspension.
Depending on your commute don't expect to see 30mpg from an ep3.
My traffic stop start commute is currently lucky to get 26mpg.
However mine has various mods and is mapped with print out of 243bhp so certainly makes up for the fuel useage with outright pace.
Very little that matches it for fun imo and I've a number of different performance vehicles over the years.
Imo they are very reliable...What other factory engine can produce over 400bhp when turboed without even opening it up.
Issues I've had with mine so far are just calipers which seems to be common and a oil leak out of the pressure sensor.
They can be sensitive to which oil so a decent 5w40 will be needed and expect timing chains and tensioners to be done by now.
Can't comment much on the fn2. A mate of mine has the mugen edition and the ep3 eats it up.
My traffic stop start commute is currently lucky to get 26mpg.
However mine has various mods and is mapped with print out of 243bhp so certainly makes up for the fuel useage with outright pace.
Very little that matches it for fun imo and I've a number of different performance vehicles over the years.
Imo they are very reliable...What other factory engine can produce over 400bhp when turboed without even opening it up.
Issues I've had with mine so far are just calipers which seems to be common and a oil leak out of the pressure sensor.
They can be sensitive to which oil so a decent 5w40 will be needed and expect timing chains and tensioners to be done by now.
Can't comment much on the fn2. A mate of mine has the mugen edition and the ep3 eats it up.
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