Test Drove S2000, Disappointed??
Discussion
Hi All,
I test drove an S2000 for the first time today and wasnt quite what i was expecting.
I currently have an FTO GPX thats getting a bit long in the tooth and have always liked Honda's since having a Del Sol.
This was a 2003 AP1 car with 47K on the clock and full history from a main dealer in the Monte Carlo blue.
Priced at £9500, perhaps a little on the heavy side????
I know the V-tec is no V8, but the car wasnt as fast as I'd expected and the clutch would judder hurrendously if i didnt slip it quite heavily.
The FTO isnt a ballistic missile, but is progressive and smooth. For the extra 40 BHP, plus wahtever mines lost it didnt feel any faster??
My first question, is this normal or is there an oil leak?
Also the roads are terrible near me and the ride was fidgity and really quite hard for an everyday Honda.
Did I look at a to old car, should I look for a lower mileage AP2 car???
The car will be a daily driver, so all tips would be appreciated.
Cheers
I test drove an S2000 for the first time today and wasnt quite what i was expecting.
I currently have an FTO GPX thats getting a bit long in the tooth and have always liked Honda's since having a Del Sol.
This was a 2003 AP1 car with 47K on the clock and full history from a main dealer in the Monte Carlo blue.
Priced at £9500, perhaps a little on the heavy side????
I know the V-tec is no V8, but the car wasnt as fast as I'd expected and the clutch would judder hurrendously if i didnt slip it quite heavily.
The FTO isnt a ballistic missile, but is progressive and smooth. For the extra 40 BHP, plus wahtever mines lost it didnt feel any faster??
My first question, is this normal or is there an oil leak?
Also the roads are terrible near me and the ride was fidgity and really quite hard for an everyday Honda.
Did I look at a to old car, should I look for a lower mileage AP2 car???
The car will be a daily driver, so all tips would be appreciated.
Cheers
Clutch shouldn't be doing that so i'd be a bit concerned. 9.5k for a car that age is very steep even if it's mint IMHO. My S2k drives great, gearshift, clutch, throttle response really smooth. I would agree they aren't ballistic, you do have to be in the 6-9k vtec band for it to feel like a 240hp car, below it can feel a bit flat. Still love mine, honda should make another but sadly it won't be a car like the old S2k (probably turbo or hybrid).
Very expensive for the age IMHO, even from a Honda dealer. Clutch also shouldn't judder... My old S2000 didn't feel quick, frankly - it's the way it accelerates, it doesn't give you a shove in the back. However, glancing at the speedo as you press on should show a higher number than you expect.
Thanks for the feedback.
Just reading on the Google, this is the "Heat Soak Issue"
Some say they all do it, is this true?
I cant believe Honda would have missed this being a Flagship model for them.
And is there a solid fix for it.
Only happend to me pulling away, but haddent been thrashing it.
Just reading on the Google, this is the "Heat Soak Issue"
Some say they all do it, is this true?
I cant believe Honda would have missed this being a Flagship model for them.
And is there a solid fix for it.
Only happend to me pulling away, but haddent been thrashing it.
No - I had an '03 MCB, and it never did that...to me that's a sign of either a clutch on the way out or a new one which hasn't been fitted quite right. Although that said, Scoobys have been known to suffer from the same thing, as have NSXs (completely diff't clutch design in NSX though).
Price - is stupid...thoroughly stupid. For reference, I sold my '03 MCB, with 42/43k on the clock, >4 years ago (!) for <£9k.
Keep looking...and as above, below 6k they're quick enough to keep up with the repmobiles, but they're not properly quick...you do need to keep it wound up to find the pace (when it IS quick - not quite E46 M3 pace, but not that far off). Assuming your FTO is similar in pace to a DC2, then the S2000 is clearly quicker.
Price - is stupid...thoroughly stupid. For reference, I sold my '03 MCB, with 42/43k on the clock, >4 years ago (!) for <£9k.
Keep looking...and as above, below 6k they're quick enough to keep up with the repmobiles, but they're not properly quick...you do need to keep it wound up to find the pace (when it IS quick - not quite E46 M3 pace, but not that far off). Assuming your FTO is similar in pace to a DC2, then the S2000 is clearly quicker.
In the right hands the s2000 is proper quick. But needs to be wound up. However the engine can do this all day. Maybe it needed new plugs as the service interval is 6 years for those.
I have had a number of cars in the past with more power and luckily still have my garage queen low mileage Z4m coupe. It's fast but tbh the power a bit unusable on our roads and they do drink a bit.
I think the honda s2000 engine is unlike any other on the road at the mo. They sound amazing at the top end even with the OEM setup.
I have had a number of cars in the past with more power and luckily still have my garage queen low mileage Z4m coupe. It's fast but tbh the power a bit unusable on our roads and they do drink a bit.
I think the honda s2000 engine is unlike any other on the road at the mo. They sound amazing at the top end even with the OEM setup.
So in essence a good s2000 clutch will not judder in pull away and drives, well like a Honda?
Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
swb1 said:
So in essence a good s2000 clutch will not judder in pull away and drives, well like a Honda?
Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
Mine used to judder in first a little, but was on 80k+ miles so the clutch was likely worn.Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
Was the dealer in the passenger seat? If so, it might have put you off - you really need to thrash the pants off this car to make it feel quick. It doesn't have the push in the back a torque turbo or big NA has, but when you look at the scenery flying by or the speedo you might be surprised.
swb1 said:
So in essence a good s2000 clutch will not judder in pull away and drives, well like a Honda?
Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
What is this heatsoak issue you keep referring to? Normally this "heatsoak" term is used to explain why people fitting induction kits don't get the power gains they are looking for - conveniently ignoring a few fundamental facts about airflow during dyno testing. It's a phantom effect usually used to justify buying fancy carbon airboxes, and one that I've only experienced once or twice in about 20,000 miles of driving with cars with open cone air filters and onky under specific circumstances.Admittedly it was only in first gear and Id never driven one before, but still.
It really kangeroo'd, like id never drive before.
Even when I coudnt drive I never got a car o do this ;0)
When i gave some beans off the line it seems fine. Ive decided to look for another example, but be good to know if they all do it like the dealer said??
Theres alot of complaints on the net about it, heat soak ect...?
Please could you tell us more about this S2000 specific heatsoak issue?
well It sounds as if all the posts on the net for Kangarooing in first gear must have worn out clutches if nobody on here has the problem?
The heat soak comment is raised when mentioning the kangarooing issue.
Alot of small performance and rear engind cars suffer this due to poor air flow when stationary, or after thrashing them. (As you say, heat on the inlet or the clutch over heating)
I read the S2000 suffers from heat soak on the inlet which upsets the flow meter or equivalent and then it kangaroos as you pull away??
I still struggle to believe that a company like Honda could make such a school boy mistake??
But how would you know if it was this or a finished clutch?
Anyone here have a very low mileage car or new clutch as a refernece as the clutch could be finished at any mileage depending on how its used.
Sounds like thay dont all do it so far???
The heat soak comment is raised when mentioning the kangarooing issue.
Alot of small performance and rear engind cars suffer this due to poor air flow when stationary, or after thrashing them. (As you say, heat on the inlet or the clutch over heating)
I read the S2000 suffers from heat soak on the inlet which upsets the flow meter or equivalent and then it kangaroos as you pull away??
I still struggle to believe that a company like Honda could make such a school boy mistake??
But how would you know if it was this or a finished clutch?
Anyone here have a very low mileage car or new clutch as a refernece as the clutch could be finished at any mileage depending on how its used.
Sounds like thay dont all do it so far???
Gaz. said:
Have you never had the car feel 'unwell' for a few seconds in a stop start jam? Especially with a warm engine on a hot day? It always happens to me in summer near the end of my 25 mile commute if the car is stationary behind a bus or something for a few minutes.
The only time I've had it happen was on my old Cupra R, that was a fairly highly tuned one at 280bhp from a 1.8L engine, it used to feel hotter than most cars under the bonnet, and that was running an open cone filter. It was a boiling hot day in summer, I arrived at work, had the engine running while stationary for 5 minutes, radio fan whirring away, then left and turned out onto a NSL road. As I accelerated at WOT through the gears, the throttle felt unresponsive and the engine took longer to build boost. However, with air rushing under the bonnet, the temperatures in the engine bay must have dropped quickly as the effect disappeared within about a mile of driving.I hear it all the time with Type Rs, "get this filter not that one, that one causes heatsoak etc". I'm running a K&N Typhoon on my Type R and I've never experienced this, despite the this induction kit is meant to cause it. There may be some difference when leaving a slow area of traffic on a hot day, but once you are moving the cooling effect of air moving into the bay should bring temps down quickly. As for heatsoak while actually in a traffic jam, I've never needed VTEC in a traffic jam yet. Not saying it doesn't happen, I just think it's not the issue that people make it out to be. That said, I accept that on some engines, more than likely turbocharged ones, running a lot of power, on hot days with open cones might feel the sluggish effect of heatsoak even on the move. However, I don't think it's a real issue for 99% of drivers.
Dyno testing is the exception though, and this is where open cones filters perform noticeably worse on power, particularly when the car is doing multiple pulls on the rollers. Running a car on a dyno is strenuous and the fans they hook up just cannot recreate the air flow you'd experience at speed. A 4th gear dyno pull on my car would take you up to 100mph, and there is no way a little fan or fans, pointed at the front of the car, are giving anything like the cooling effect you'd see on the road, making it very difficult to power test open cone filters on anything after the first run.
I've had the brief hiccup in mine too before, usually when it's been sat still for a while, especially if its just at some traffic after a spirited drive, which has always lead me to believe in the heat soak issue. Dip the clutch, few more revs and its fine though.
As for the kangarooing, that's also something i've experienced and from looking on the owners forums is normal, I think it's because theres hardly any torque at low revs and a light flywheel, you just learn that it needs a few more revs when you're starting off and then it doesn't really do it.
As others have said, it seems well over priced though. Mine's an early model with high miles, but it was still only £3.5k, a bargain! Spend 6K and you'll find a nice example, there's a guy on S2ki at the moment selling his, which is a stunner for £8k, but it's mint, and with every mod you could possibly want!
As for the kangarooing, that's also something i've experienced and from looking on the owners forums is normal, I think it's because theres hardly any torque at low revs and a light flywheel, you just learn that it needs a few more revs when you're starting off and then it doesn't really do it.
As others have said, it seems well over priced though. Mine's an early model with high miles, but it was still only £3.5k, a bargain! Spend 6K and you'll find a nice example, there's a guy on S2ki at the moment selling his, which is a stunner for £8k, but it's mint, and with every mod you could possibly want!
Mine has always kangaroo'd; its a pita sometimes. I bought mine with less than 30k miles on the clock and it would do it a fair bit. But as I live in Perth I also put it down to heat soak. It would do it after a freeway drive, then sit idle in traffic, or crawling. BUT not all the time, and really random. Bought a cold air intake and filter (Fuji F5 I think) and it seemed to cure it for about a year, then it did it again. Moved to Adelaide which is colder for most of the year but it still lieks to do it once in awhile after crawling in traffic jams (doesn't happen in my part of the wrld often!).
But you can catch it easily enough and it you just learn to dip the clutch and feed it a few more revs. Its definately NOT a clutch issue if we are talking about the same thing. I also had my clutch changed at 35k miles (even though it didn't need to be) and that did not cure anything
In Oz your hand would be snapped off at that price, lol.
Ohh, I also never thought the car felt fast. TBh it isn't a fast car. But if you wring its neck from 6-9k rpm it does come alive and agree that the speedo reminds you that you are moving along swift enough. Take off the lid on the air box too. Not worth it for power, but the induction noise is very addictive! And it is a well balanced car in my limited experience, but not to be driven like a fwd hot hatch as that will have you chasing the tail.
But you can catch it easily enough and it you just learn to dip the clutch and feed it a few more revs. Its definately NOT a clutch issue if we are talking about the same thing. I also had my clutch changed at 35k miles (even though it didn't need to be) and that did not cure anything
In Oz your hand would be snapped off at that price, lol.
Ohh, I also never thought the car felt fast. TBh it isn't a fast car. But if you wring its neck from 6-9k rpm it does come alive and agree that the speedo reminds you that you are moving along swift enough. Take off the lid on the air box too. Not worth it for power, but the induction noise is very addictive! And it is a well balanced car in my limited experience, but not to be driven like a fwd hot hatch as that will have you chasing the tail.
Edited by ajg31 on Monday 14th October 03:22
Gassing Station | Honda | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff