Honda - You disappoint me.
Discussion
I own an 04 diesel Accord. It's great. For a diesel.
I bought it with 75K on the clock, it's just hit 105K. I've serviced it more often than required, I've replaced all 4 brake discs, and 8 pads.
I'd assumed it was well built and might last forever.
But now I find it's got a split in the exhaust manifold. Looks a pain to replace, dealer says 3 hours of labour. Which means it's a PITA ?
Cost of the Parts £324 plus VAT
Basically a little less than £800 for the dealer to do it.
I could go second hand, but I know that the part probably costs £40 and Honda mark it up from their supplier, and the price multiplies by 10.
You disappoint me Mr Honda. I would have bought another one in about 2 or 3 years, maybe even leased a new one, but it turns out you treat your customers JUST like every other car company. If you were BMW or MINI I'd understand that you are t
t like.
Next time I need a car, it will be Darcia I look to
I bought it with 75K on the clock, it's just hit 105K. I've serviced it more often than required, I've replaced all 4 brake discs, and 8 pads.
I'd assumed it was well built and might last forever.
But now I find it's got a split in the exhaust manifold. Looks a pain to replace, dealer says 3 hours of labour. Which means it's a PITA ?
Cost of the Parts £324 plus VAT
Basically a little less than £800 for the dealer to do it.
I could go second hand, but I know that the part probably costs £40 and Honda mark it up from their supplier, and the price multiplies by 10.
You disappoint me Mr Honda. I would have bought another one in about 2 or 3 years, maybe even leased a new one, but it turns out you treat your customers JUST like every other car company. If you were BMW or MINI I'd understand that you are t
t like. Next time I need a car, it will be Darcia I look to
Think about me, had a call from Audi
''Your ceramic discs need replacing, £6,500 please''
''I thought they last four times longer than steel discs''?
Basically, if you didn't buy the car from new, go get stuffed was their response... It doesn't matter that the car is still three years old, and only a few months out of warranty.
HQ eventually offered to contribute 10%, bless 'um.
''Your ceramic discs need replacing, £6,500 please''
''I thought they last four times longer than steel discs''?
Basically, if you didn't buy the car from new, go get stuffed was their response... It doesn't matter that the car is still three years old, and only a few months out of warranty.
HQ eventually offered to contribute 10%, bless 'um.
normalbloke said:
While we're willly waving on parts prices, I had an S2000 with a VGS rack that failed. Price fom Honda....
£13500.
I think we could retro fit something out of an MX5 for that sort of price, and provide the rest of an S2000 with it. £13500.
Interestingly I've worked on reliability, and warranty, and robust design, on and off for 23 years, so I know the way automotive and other industries work. But I'd like to imagine a day, when they say, "You know what, I know it's LONG out of warranty, but we don't have to actually screw them do we?"
vladcjelli said:
As a layman, what is likely to be the cause of your manifold failure?
A combination of High Cycle fatigue due to vibration from engine and pressure pulsing from exhaust gases, and back pressure pulsing from turbo vane spinning and low cycle fatigue due mainly to temperature cycling. Root cause is the designers inability to design a part which can be made in volume, which will survive all these things forever.
Maybe the inputs to stress analysis were inaccurate, maybe the development testing used perfect parts all on nominal, with materials that complied to spec 100%, and they stopped at 100K,
And the parts they buy from a supplier in the far east are good enough that they don't have that many warranty claims, they all might be just in spec, but they never tested just in spec ones to 101K, they tested perfect one's to 100K.
All I think is that if designed properly it's not something that should fail ever. In the god knows how many cars, I've owned, I've never had an exhaust manifold crack. Only had an exhaust gasket go once, and that was a mini, so the cost was £2:50 and skinned knuckles.
Honda extended the warranty on the Accord ICTD-i exhaust manifold to 7 years/125k miles IIRC after a few failures. Compare and contrast with BMW/VAG and their response to known problems...
Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Oystercatcher said:
Honda extended the warranty on the Accord ICTD-i exhaust manifold to 7 years/125k miles IIRC after a few failures. Compare and contrast with BMW/VAG and their response to known problems...
Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Interesting info. Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Did they redesign the part, can you tell the difference ? Are later one's better?
I ask because there are second hand one's available from £80 to £200, and I was put off by the fact that if it's something that fails, you might only get a week out of it.
Yep, re-designed part with improved/thicker welding.
2nd hand could be a gamble as you say, depends on the age of the car it came off.
ETA: What's your service history like? If FSH you *might* get a deal where they pay for parts and you pay for labour.
2nd hand could be a gamble as you say, depends on the age of the car it came off.
ETA: What's your service history like? If FSH you *might* get a deal where they pay for parts and you pay for labour.
Edited by Oystercatcher on Thursday 11th July 00:10
New POD said:
You disappoint me Mr Honda. I would have bought another one in about 2 or 3 years, maybe even leased a new one, but it turns out you treat your customers JUST like every other car company. If you were BMW or MINI I'd understand that you are tt like.
Next time I need a car, it will be Darcia I look to
In the interest of clarity "Honda" are not reading this thread, stuff can happen on a used car,deal with it and move on, if that is the only "failure" you have had consider yourself lucky you bought a Honda. Good luckt like. Next time I need a car, it will be Darcia I look to
Cheers.....Tony..
New POD said:
I think we could retro fit something out of an MX5 for that sort of price, and provide the rest of an S2000 with it.
Interestingly I've worked on reliability, and warranty, and robust design, on and off for 23 years, so I know the way automotive and other industries work. But I'd like to imagine a day, when they say, "You know what, I know it's LONG out of warranty, but we don't have to actually screw them do we?"
Yep, we looked at ALL options, including fitting the non VGS system, but so much is linked, different ECU, column,wheel,SRS,loom etc etc. it just wasn't worth it. I have enough toys for fettling/spannering, the Honda shouldn't be one of them.Interestingly I've worked on reliability, and warranty, and robust design, on and off for 23 years, so I know the way automotive and other industries work. But I'd like to imagine a day, when they say, "You know what, I know it's LONG out of warranty, but we don't have to actually screw them do we?"
New POD said:
Oystercatcher said:
Honda extended the warranty on the Accord ICTD-i exhaust manifold to 7 years/125k miles IIRC after a few failures. Compare and contrast with BMW/VAG and their response to known problems...
Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Interesting info. Honda will sometimes offer a good-will gesture, but I think you'll be out of luck on a 9 year old...
Did they redesign the part, can you tell the difference ? Are later one's better?
I ask because there are second hand one's available from £80 to £200, and I was put off by the fact that if it's something that fails, you might only get a week out of it.
It was mentioned to me a while back that the manifold is a design fault, but at nearly 10 years old, I think it unlikely that they will replace it free of charge, even though we have a full honda service history with the dealership that sold us the car from new.
Grandad Gaz said:
We need a new manifold on our 2.4 accord tourer this year and have been quoted about the same figures as the OP.
It was mentioned to me a while back that the manifold is a design fault, but at nearly 10 years old, I think it unlikely that they will replace it free of charge, even though we have a full honda service history with the dealership that sold us the car from new.
The new design manifold is a 1 piece cast not 2 bits wealded together, the 2.4 accord tourer is a petrol engine and the manifold is completly different to the diesel one, but 10 years is acceptable i think for a manifold, so rightly they shouldnt replace it for freeIt was mentioned to me a while back that the manifold is a design fault, but at nearly 10 years old, I think it unlikely that they will replace it free of charge, even though we have a full honda service history with the dealership that sold us the car from new.
tozerman said:
In the interest of clarity "Honda" are not reading this thread, stuff can happen on a used car,deal with it and move on, if that is the only "failure" you have had consider yourself lucky you bought a Honda. Good luck
Cheers.....Tony..
Yeah cheers...Tony...I'm not that stupid that I would think they were or care.....Although am occasionally stupid.....Cheers.....Tony..
What do you mean by "if that is the only "failure" you have had consider yourself lucky you bought a Honda"
Are you saying you'd expect it to have more failures? (Cam Chain tensioners next on the list perhaps?)
Or are you saying if I'd bought a different car I'd have more issues ?
Apart from that and the 6 cd's stuck inside the dash board I'm really happy with it, despite the fact that I'm sure I could have bought a mondeo or Vectra with similar miles, and age for half the price.
Honda prices aren't cheap, but they're no worse than the equivalent BMW/Audi/VW etc.
...and having owned several Hondas and for the last 4 years 1 modern VW, I know which has more reliable components.
e.g. - Integra exhaust lasted 14 years and near-90k, and even then only the centre section had gone. Lady at work with an '04 plate 206 - on its 3rd exhaust in <70k miles!
So I do think you're complaining a bit too much. You want expensive, look at BMW M-parts. Or an NSX engine, maybe... But a few hundred for an exhaust is just market rate, sadly...
...and having owned several Hondas and for the last 4 years 1 modern VW, I know which has more reliable components.
e.g. - Integra exhaust lasted 14 years and near-90k, and even then only the centre section had gone. Lady at work with an '04 plate 206 - on its 3rd exhaust in <70k miles!
So I do think you're complaining a bit too much. You want expensive, look at BMW M-parts. Or an NSX engine, maybe... But a few hundred for an exhaust is just market rate, sadly...
havoc said:
Honda prices aren't cheap, but they're no worse than the equivalent BMW/Audi/VW etc.
...and having owned several Hondas and for the last 4 years 1 modern VW, I know which has more reliable components.
e.g. - Integra exhaust lasted 14 years and near-90k, and even then only the centre section had gone. Lady at work with an '04 plate 206 - on its 3rd exhaust in <70k miles!
We are still on the original exhaust. Almost 10 years old and 90k miles, mostly on short runs....and having owned several Hondas and for the last 4 years 1 modern VW, I know which has more reliable components.
e.g. - Integra exhaust lasted 14 years and near-90k, and even then only the centre section had gone. Lady at work with an '04 plate 206 - on its 3rd exhaust in <70k miles!
Very pleased with the reliability in general, that's why we still have it!
normalbloke said:
New POD said:
I think we could retro fit something out of an MX5 for that sort of price, and provide the rest of an S2000 with it.
Interestingly I've worked on reliability, and warranty, and robust design, on and off for 23 years, so I know the way automotive and other industries work. But I'd like to imagine a day, when they say, "You know what, I know it's LONG out of warranty, but we don't have to actually screw them do we?"
Yep, we looked at ALL options, including fitting the non VGS system, but so much is linked, different ECU, column,wheel,SRS,loom etc etc. it just wasn't worth it. I have enough toys for fettling/spannering, the Honda shouldn't be one of them.Interestingly I've worked on reliability, and warranty, and robust design, on and off for 23 years, so I know the way automotive and other industries work. But I'd like to imagine a day, when they say, "You know what, I know it's LONG out of warranty, but we don't have to actually screw them do we?"
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