Been giving a 2005 Civic Type R a lot of thought...
Discussion
Been thinking recently about getting a face-lift Civic Type R with a budget of around £5500 or so.
But without ploughing through tonnes of stuff on the internet can somebody give me any good buying tips, potential pitfalls, known problems, driving experience, real world mpg, etc, etc.
Sorry for the vague questions, but my knowledge of these is fairly limited, as is my real knowledge of Japanese cars.
It's just that I really fancy one and as soon as my current car is sold, I'll be seriously looking for one.
Thanks in advance.
But without ploughing through tonnes of stuff on the internet can somebody give me any good buying tips, potential pitfalls, known problems, driving experience, real world mpg, etc, etc.
Sorry for the vague questions, but my knowledge of these is fairly limited, as is my real knowledge of Japanese cars.
It's just that I really fancy one and as soon as my current car is sold, I'll be seriously looking for one.
Thanks in advance.
vixen1700 said:
buying tips
http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=134247vixen1700 said:
potential pitfalls, known problems
http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=40vixen1700 said:
driving experience
6 forward gears, 1 reverse, 4 seats and steering wheel vixen1700 said:
real world mpg
http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=69
Good choice, I've got a 2005 Type R and it's a bloody brilliant car. Things to look out for when buying;
Anyway, now for the good stuff! There are many great things about the Civic Type R, as I quickly found when I bought one, fancying a change from my Cupra R 225. Being used to the lag of a turbo car and the dulled throttle response, the instantaneous throttle of the EP3 was a revelation to me - my first drive in it was admittedly jerky and cack-handed, but after 2 minutes I knew I had to have it! The noise is incredible too, mine has an unsilenced B pipe which opens up the sound up a bit. I find it to be extremely satisfying to drive, the way it doesn't give up it's power as easily as a turbo car, and the howling soundtrack encourage you to really drive it.
One of my reasons for getting a Type R was that it was slower than the Cupra R I had before it, which had about 70bhp more than the Civic. Once that came on boost, the speed limit came and went so quickly and the Civic gave me more foot flat to the floor time, and less chance of torque steer or wheelspin. The Civic is a quick car, it's much stronger than you might expect it to be as long as you keep your foot in and shift up at the redline. Some people don't like that, they like a car to give them all the power low down in the range and be discreet. In this respect, the Civic is not great; it's a driver's car, it was built for the thrill of driving, not for outright speed - Honda would have made it turbo if pub-talk bhp figures mattered. They are loud-ish as standard, as you'd expect, and have a distinctive, high pitched sound - if you are driving it hard, as Honda intended, everyone will know it. For the people who disagree with the revvy engine or loud noise, quiet turbo petrols, or perhaps diesels, would be more appropriate.
The ride is a bit bumpy at low speeds, and imo it's a fairly jerky car to drive slowly, due to the short gearing. Once you get a bit of speed, it smooths right out and starts to flow properly.
This brings me onto the next point, the noise. I am an admitted fanatic of car noise. As far as 4 cylinder engines go, they don't sound better than the K20 imo. While you are shopping for a Type R you will probably notice that most of them don't have the standard airbox or exhausts. With regard to airboxes, most of the popular aftermarket induction kits are good, but avoid open cone filters in the engine bay - they will dull the throttle response and possibly decrease peak power. There are many exhausts that are popular, though you will probably want to choose one of your own once you've owned the car a little while. There are loads of choices, more than I could go into now.
In terms of practicality, the car is good. There is a decent amount of room in the back if you fold the seats down, though the boot is not huge for a hatch. The back seats can only be accessed by sliding the front seats forward, so you lose the seating position you had dialled in. For this reasons, passengers only ever enter and exit the rear of my car on the passenger side. MPG can be decent, 30-32mpg if you take it easy. However, you don't buy a car like this to drive it slowly, so budget for mpg, I think I'm getting about 27mpg atm.
In summary, I think it's an absolutely brilliant car, I love mine. Sometimes I do lust after a an Evo or an Impreza, but every time I pass a NSL sign and floor it, the way the car gathers speed, the noise it makes etc, I know I will be keeping it for a while get. I've got a new exhaust in the pipeline for mine, so I think my infatuation with the Type R will only get stronger.
If there is anything I've missed, I will post more.
- Difficulty selecting second gear - a lot of these cars will have been thrashed by boy racers, and have probably taken a lot of shifts from 1st to 2nd gear at 8000rpm. If the box is notchy or crunches going into any gear then that's not a good sign, the synchros are damaged. If reverse is difficult to select, the gearbox bearings are on the way out. A working Type R box is probably the best gear-shift you'll ever feel. The shift glides very smoothly, the gear positions are very tight and well defined and engagement is very postive.
- Check the oil. If it's dark or dirty looing, avoid it, ask why. Type Rs need regular high quality oil - Honda have a specific oil for them. The K20 engine will go at 8000rpm forever, unless it is neglected, in which case you can expect things to go wrong. These cars can burn oil on the VTEC and if oil gets really low, the VTEC will be disabled.
- Check the VTEC engages properly. The car will accelerate in a perky fashion up to 5800rpm, at which point the VTEC cam will engage, the induction note will harden and the car will bolt surge with acceleration. If the VTEC is not working, the car will accelerate in a linear fashion all the way to the redline and you will not hear the distinctive VTEC noise. Youtube it if you want to know what to listen for.
Anyway, now for the good stuff! There are many great things about the Civic Type R, as I quickly found when I bought one, fancying a change from my Cupra R 225. Being used to the lag of a turbo car and the dulled throttle response, the instantaneous throttle of the EP3 was a revelation to me - my first drive in it was admittedly jerky and cack-handed, but after 2 minutes I knew I had to have it! The noise is incredible too, mine has an unsilenced B pipe which opens up the sound up a bit. I find it to be extremely satisfying to drive, the way it doesn't give up it's power as easily as a turbo car, and the howling soundtrack encourage you to really drive it.
One of my reasons for getting a Type R was that it was slower than the Cupra R I had before it, which had about 70bhp more than the Civic. Once that came on boost, the speed limit came and went so quickly and the Civic gave me more foot flat to the floor time, and less chance of torque steer or wheelspin. The Civic is a quick car, it's much stronger than you might expect it to be as long as you keep your foot in and shift up at the redline. Some people don't like that, they like a car to give them all the power low down in the range and be discreet. In this respect, the Civic is not great; it's a driver's car, it was built for the thrill of driving, not for outright speed - Honda would have made it turbo if pub-talk bhp figures mattered. They are loud-ish as standard, as you'd expect, and have a distinctive, high pitched sound - if you are driving it hard, as Honda intended, everyone will know it. For the people who disagree with the revvy engine or loud noise, quiet turbo petrols, or perhaps diesels, would be more appropriate.
The ride is a bit bumpy at low speeds, and imo it's a fairly jerky car to drive slowly, due to the short gearing. Once you get a bit of speed, it smooths right out and starts to flow properly.
This brings me onto the next point, the noise. I am an admitted fanatic of car noise. As far as 4 cylinder engines go, they don't sound better than the K20 imo. While you are shopping for a Type R you will probably notice that most of them don't have the standard airbox or exhausts. With regard to airboxes, most of the popular aftermarket induction kits are good, but avoid open cone filters in the engine bay - they will dull the throttle response and possibly decrease peak power. There are many exhausts that are popular, though you will probably want to choose one of your own once you've owned the car a little while. There are loads of choices, more than I could go into now.
In terms of practicality, the car is good. There is a decent amount of room in the back if you fold the seats down, though the boot is not huge for a hatch. The back seats can only be accessed by sliding the front seats forward, so you lose the seating position you had dialled in. For this reasons, passengers only ever enter and exit the rear of my car on the passenger side. MPG can be decent, 30-32mpg if you take it easy. However, you don't buy a car like this to drive it slowly, so budget for mpg, I think I'm getting about 27mpg atm.
In summary, I think it's an absolutely brilliant car, I love mine. Sometimes I do lust after a an Evo or an Impreza, but every time I pass a NSL sign and floor it, the way the car gathers speed, the noise it makes etc, I know I will be keeping it for a while get. I've got a new exhaust in the pipeline for mine, so I think my infatuation with the Type R will only get stronger.
If there is anything I've missed, I will post more.
Mastodon2 said:
*Difficulty selecting second gear - a lot of these cars will have been thrashed by boy racers, and have probably taken a lot of shifts from 1st to 2nd gear at 8000rpm. If the box is notchy or crunches going into any gear then that's not a good sign, the synchros are damaged.
This is not true. I have owned my 04 plate from new and this is a known issue. If first to second is notchy then you are either not depressing the clutch fully or the gearbox is not warm enough. There was a "fix" available but in most cases the problem went from 1st to 2nd gear change to 5th to 6th instead. Lots of info in this thread http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&...Mastodon2 said:
*Check the oil. If it's dark or dirty looing, avoid it, ask why. Type Rs need regular high quality oil - Honda have a specific oil for them. The K20 engine will go at 8000rpm forever, unless it is neglected, in which case you can expect things to go wrong. These cars can burn oil on the VTEC and if oil gets really low, the VTEC will be disabled.
This is not true either. Oil changes can be done to service scheduled which is every 12k miles for pre-facelifts and 12.5k for facelifts. There is nothing wrong with having dark oil for gods sake, if you change it every time it gets dark or dirty then you will be doing oil changes every month if the car is driven regularly! If the oil gets really low then the engine is fecked. If the oil is lower than the bottom mark on the dipstick then VTEC won't engage. Between top and bottom marks on the dipstick is exactly 1 litre of oil. I use Fuchs Titan Race Pro 5w 40 but ANY good quality fully synthetic will do, there is no need to buy from oil from Honda which is just rebadged Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 and it's not great oil anyway as it's hydrocracked.itsnotarace said:
This is not true either. Oil changes can be done to service scheduled which is every 12k miles for pre-facelifts and 12.5k for facelifts. There is nothing wrong with having dark oil for gods sake, if you change it every time it gets dark or dirty then you will be doing oil changes every month if the car is driven regularly! If the oil gets really low then the engine is fecked. If the oil is lower than the bottom mark on the dipstick then VTEC won't engage. Between top and bottom marks on the dipstick is exactly 1 litre of oil. I use Fuchs Titan Race Pro 5w 40 but ANY good quality fully synthetic will do, there is no need to buy from oil from Honda which is just rebadged Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 and it's not great oil anyway as it's hydrocracked.
For the gearbox thing, that is still not well known then - indeed that is the first thread I've seen about it not being a damaged synchro, it would seem the knowledge is still not out there in general, as this issue still comes up a lot on the owners forums.With regard to oil, VTEC engagement can be flakey anywhere below the halfway point for the max/min fill level. I had a full oil change in early september when I got the car, covered a few thousand miles and by late December my VTEC had stopped working, or so I thought, and the first advice I got was an oil refresh and top up to make sure the oil pressure was as close to the safe max as possible. In the end, it turned out to be a difficult to diagnose downpipe to cat blow, which was sapping back pressure and when the VTEC cam engaged, the car was seriously out of puff, meaning it just didn't feel like it was happening.
Your budget is plenty, so be picky. Join the Civic Type R forum and have a look through the classifieds.
There are plenty of garages in the UK who will be better than Honda for a service/getting work done (e.g. ABP, TDi North, Area Motorsport, Eight Speed, Hond-R, R Motion) and parts are plentiful if something goes wrong.
I don't think you'll find a perfect car for £5500 but you'll get a darned good example and a pretty good car for the cash. These are getting hard to sell, depreciation is your friend, talk the price down a bit.
There are plenty of garages in the UK who will be better than Honda for a service/getting work done (e.g. ABP, TDi North, Area Motorsport, Eight Speed, Hond-R, R Motion) and parts are plentiful if something goes wrong.
I don't think you'll find a perfect car for £5500 but you'll get a darned good example and a pretty good car for the cash. These are getting hard to sell, depreciation is your friend, talk the price down a bit.
itsnotarace said:
Mastodon2 said:
*Check the oil. If it's dark or dirty looing, avoid it, ask why. Type Rs need regular high quality oil - Honda have a specific oil for them. The K20 engine will go at 8000rpm forever, unless it is neglected, in which case you can expect things to go wrong. These cars can burn oil on the VTEC and if oil gets really low, the VTEC will be disabled.
There is nothing wrong with having dark oil for gods sake, if you change it every time it gets dark or dirty then you will be doing oil changes every month if the car is driven regularly! I use Fuchs Titan Race Pro 5w 40 .OP, best thing you can do is go and drive one, you either love it or hate it.
Hmmm lovely lovely cars , i ragged ours round the avongorge road this morning after it had passed its Mot.
We empty a tank of unleaded within 300 miles with mixed driving , primarily non vtecing.
If your looking at oil , just go for synthetic or ester oil , dont skimp on oil changes either .
I change our usually within about 7700 miles . It requires a change soon (oil) . Oh and the cars only had one previous owner before us and is now on 135000 miles.
We empty a tank of unleaded within 300 miles with mixed driving , primarily non vtecing.
If your looking at oil , just go for synthetic or ester oil , dont skimp on oil changes either .
I change our usually within about 7700 miles . It requires a change soon (oil) . Oh and the cars only had one previous owner before us and is now on 135000 miles.
If your still looking to potentialy purchase one, a friend of mine has a fantastic condition 55 plate Premier Edition Cosmic Grey Civic Type R EP3 for sale. The car has 47k miles on the clock. I'l post a link to it on the owners website. There are lots of pics so feel free to check it out.
http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?7...
http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?7...
integra1799 said:
If your still looking to potentialy purchase one, a friend of mine has a fantastic condition 55 plate Premier Edition Cosmic Grey Civic Type R EP3 for sale. The car has 47k miles on the clock. I'l post a link to it on the owners website. There are lots of pics so feel free to check it out.
http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?7...
Sorry, I just get a log-in page on that link.http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?7...
To be honest, I'd imagine it would be too expensive for me, as my budget is strictly 5500, 5600 at the very most, as we need to do stuff to the house.
Saw a beauty for sale on Friday, grey, air-con, 41k, RAC warranty 5495.00 rang up about it yesterday but it was sold on Friday.
Edited by vixen1700 on Sunday 18th March 17:23
Mastodon2 said:
itsnotarace said:
This is not true either. Oil changes can be done to service scheduled which is every 12k miles for pre-facelifts and 12.5k for facelifts. There is nothing wrong with having dark oil for gods sake, if you change it every time it gets dark or dirty then you will be doing oil changes every month if the car is driven regularly! If the oil gets really low then the engine is fecked. If the oil is lower than the bottom mark on the dipstick then VTEC won't engage. Between top and bottom marks on the dipstick is exactly 1 litre of oil. I use Fuchs Titan Race Pro 5w 40 but ANY good quality fully synthetic will do, there is no need to buy from oil from Honda which is just rebadged Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 and it's not great oil anyway as it's hydrocracked.
For the gearbox thing, that is still not well known then - indeed that is the first thread I've seen about it not being a damaged synchro, it would seem the knowledge is still not out there in general, as this issue still comes up a lot on the owners forums.With regard to oil, VTEC engagement can be flakey anywhere below the halfway point for the max/min fill level. I had a full oil change in early september when I got the car, covered a few thousand miles and by late December my VTEC had stopped working, or so I thought, and the first advice I got was an oil refresh and top up to make sure the oil pressure was as close to the safe max as possible. In the end, it turned out to be a difficult to diagnose downpipe to cat blow, which was sapping back pressure and when the VTEC cam engaged, the car was seriously out of puff, meaning it just didn't feel like it was happening.
davey68 said:
Owned two, 2003 and 2005 premier. Great car's you will not be disappointed!
I know the facelift version had a number of tweaks, aesthetic and mechanical. But to drive did you find any significant differences between the two? I'm considering a 2003 version to save a bit of money and on the basis a slightly higher mileage car will suit my need.
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