Which Honda as a track car?

[stabbed rat]

I'm not ready to buy yet but as i am still weighing up my options I thought I should start a discussion to help me on my way to deciding.

Budget of about £2.5k for a track ready car. This means that if i have to buy a base car and then upgrade then please factor it into the overall budget of £2500, or is it better to buy some form of Type R that is practically ready to go out of the box?

So far I am loving all generations of the CRX and also thought of a gen4 Prelude, what else is good value for money?

If i was to get a CRX then i may consider after some time an engine swap with a B16 or B18 of some sort, does anyone know how much they should cost as a full package? (I don't know if this is do-able within the budget but it may be something I could do after i have had the car on track for a bit.)

[itsnotarace]

I think the only Type R you may be able to afford with your budget will either be an early Accord with loads of miles or a Cat C/D EP3

No idea on CRX, not my cup of tea

[Lewtyper]

There is a CRX mk2 on ebay at the moment with a b18 conversion

Looks like it needs a bit of love though

[Haighermeister]

StabbedRat, I just read your post in my car topic.

A B18 conversion will set you back at least 1k with someone doing it for you, even more if you want an integra engine.

Mine is for sale for 2k if you're interested? B18, 300mm brakes Bits you can sell to make money to proper track slag it

[stabbed rat]

Thanks for the response. I wish I was ready to buy now, that sounds perfect for what I want. Unfortunately I need my dad to say yes to me buying the track car first I know it sounds odd but I will be storing it at his, putting in on the business insurance and it would cause a ststorm if I just bought a track car one day

If it is still for sale when I persuade him then I will have it off you for definate!

[itsnotarace]

stabbed rat said:

I know it sounds odd but I will be storing it at his, putting in on the business insurance and it would cause a ststorm if I just bought a track car one day

It's not odd, it's called fronting.

[stabbed rat]

Please get more facts before jumping to conclusions.

The insurance company know full well I am the main driver of the car, they know my age and they even limited the size of engine I could have when I first passed.

Would you say we were fronting with our other staff and their company cars? As it is a business fleet policy, anyone with the permission of the owner can drive any of the vehicles on the policy fully comp, as much or as little as they like. The point of the business fleet policy is that they can do this and still drive any of the other cars within the company if they need to. They are not "named drivers" specific to their cars and they do not need to be as has been stated by the insurance company.

ETA - in my previous post I wasn't trying to say the insurance situation was odd, I was saying that my dad having final say in getting a track car may seem odd

Edited by stabbed rat on Tuesday 17th May 17:21

[havoc]

SR - you're correct on insurance, and it's not that odd if your dad's business is paying some of the bills and he's looking after it. I'm guessing you're still fairly young (early 20s) - my Dad would have point-blank refused to do anything like that.



Anyway - £2.5k?

Go for a ready-built/caged CRX Mk1/2* or EG/EK series Civic VTi - the B16s in these aren't that far off a B18 and in a stripped/caged body they'll have the stiffness and bhp/tonne of an ITR. Plus double-wishbones all round like the ITR...they'll just be lacking the excellent LSD up front - the springs/dampers on the 'teg are so good because they're perfect road/track compromise, so they're no loss.

Then you can spend a little bit on a full fluids change and you're good to go. One comment - none of these engines can cope with slicks without a properly-baffled sump, and even running stiff coilovers can cause oil-surge around the longer/faster corners. So check that's been done, and if not check the engine sounds straight!





* Watch engine - there were a few options.

[stabbed rat]

Thanks Havoc, I knew I wasn't fronting hence why I explained it freely. Yes i am quite young, I'm 19. Some people on here have said before that they found it odd that my dad got final say over the idea of a track car but there are reasons, as said above. Unfortunately for me, he has raced both cars and bikes before and knows how expensive tracking stuff can get and isn't too happy about me pissing my savings up the wall. (especially seeing as my savings are mostly from what they have gifted me over my life.

Thanks for the great advice, i was hoping someone would recommend the CRX

[havoc]

It IS expensive - I tracked my first ITR 3-4x per year, then worked out the long-term costs and now hire Caterhams - works out a little more £££, but it's more fun too.

Ways to minimise expenditure:-
- Get the lightest car possible - reduces wear on everything!
- DON'T drive at 10/10ths all the time - that last 10th really mullers brakes, tyres, etc...
- DO realise it's a road-car at heart and only do short sessions - IMHO open-pit-lane is much better for road cars as you can do ten mins out / ten mins in to cool-down / ten mins out. 20mins at a time (i.e. sessioned days) is too much without a proper cool-down lap (engine as well as brakes and tyres) in the middle.


Re: savings - I can completely see their perspective - they'd want you to do something 'productive'/meaningful with the money...which broadly = sensible and boring. Bizarrely 'going travelling' would probably be seen as more worthwhile. Not sure if you're a student or working - if the former then I'd genuinely suggest holding off on the track car project - you won't have the money to keep it running. If the latter, then offer your Dad that you'll put all/almost all trackday fees and consumables up out of your earnings if he'll let you buy the car out of the savings - will show him you're thinking about the costs.

Best of luck,

M.

PS - worth considering other cars too - an Mi16 engine'd 205 is an absolute weapon, if set-up properly! But stay n/asp as it's easier to drive progressively and at/near the limits.

[stabbed rat]

havoc said:

It IS expensive - I tracked my first ITR 3-4x per year, then worked out the long-term costs and now hire Caterhams - works out a little more £££, but it's more fun too.

Ways to minimise expenditure:-
- Get the lightest car possible - reduces wear on everything!
- DON'T drive at 10/10ths all the time - that last 10th really mullers brakes, tyres, etc...
- DO realise it's a road-car at heart and only do short sessions - IMHO open-pit-lane is much better for road cars as you can do ten mins out / ten mins in to cool-down / ten mins out. 20mins at a time (i.e. sessioned days) is too much without a proper cool-down lap (engine as well as brakes and tyres) in the middle.


Re: savings - I can completely see their perspective - they'd want you to do something 'productive'/meaningful with the money...which broadly = sensible and boring. Bizarrely 'going travelling' would probably be seen as more worthwhile. Not sure if you're a student or working - if the former then I'd genuinely suggest holding off on the track car project - you won't have the money to keep it running. If the latter, then offer your Dad that you'll put all/almost all trackday fees and consumables up out of your earnings if he'll let you buy the car out of the savings - will show him you're thinking about the costs.

Best of luck,

M.

PS - worth considering other cars too - an Mi16 engine'd 205 is an absolute weapon, if set-up properly! But stay n/asp as it's easier to drive progressively and at/near the limits.

I thought that too... I have just managed to convince myself that it would be "under control"

I will answer in an odd order to save confusion:

I am a student BUT i do work for my dad too. I work for no wage and i work ridiculous hours quite often but in turn I do live for "free" in the sense that i get a monthly allowance (only because i don't live at home) and I also have some income from a property that i own. The plot thickens slightly here though because, as mentioned earlier i have savings, I actually have quite a lot of savings as i am generally very frugal and i spent my saving on an apartment. While i had a lot of saving i didn't quite have enough, so instead of a mortgage they put up the other half. They wanted nothing in return and allow me to keep all of the rental income but they do expect me to be sensible with the money.

So even when i say to him that i will be paying for it all myself, the money is from him. Mostly.

Hey-ho though, he is looking out for me in the long run as obviously if i save the income then i will eventually have enough money to buy another property and so the cycle will go on.

When i have finished at uni I will be going into the family business full time and be taking a proper wage/salary and then i will be free to do as i like with it. I also can't really get a proper job for now, seeing as my spare time is either studying or working for him.


That was a bit long winded but hopefully i have explained without going off on any major tangents.

[With these feet]

I have a 89 crx 16/16 as a track car, its road legal as well so a little more useful..
To do it properly will cost a bit, cage is circa £500, as are a set of coil-overs (avo).
Ive put in a single seat, harness, removed the dash, heater, sunroof and fitted polycarb windows.
All in the car weighs around 820kgs, has similar power to weight ratio as a clio 182.

[stabbed rat]

Looks and sounds like what I want

Got any more pics and the full specs? What power does it run?

[With these feet]

Running gear is standard = cheap plentiful parts. Did all the necessary - water pump, cambelt, plugs, clearances when I put it on the road. Also had a new clutch and brakes. The most recent work was a new bottom end and sump as it had done 5 hours at Brands without much of a break! (150k on the clock!)

16/16's reliably give 130bhp, a little head skim can increase this by 10 or so more... I also have a complete 16/16 abs car thats been rear ended for spares...

Im no race driver, on Yoko's around Brands Indy it was doing 62's. Not fantastic, but quick enough to surprise a few people.


I forgot to add, theres no rust - I had the screen out, new sills, both rear arches, genuine door skins and the cage welded in as well.
The car was originally white, but I liked the French blue that Clios came in so did it in that!

Edited by With these feet on Wednesday 18th May 20:13

Edited by With these feet on Wednesday 18th May 20:15

[stabbed rat]

Sounds like what I am looking to do really

If I was to do an engine swap it would probably be a fair way down the line.

[itsnotarace]

stabbed rat said:

Please get more facts before jumping to conclusions.

The insurance company know full well I am the main driver of the car, they know my age and they even limited the size of engine I could have when I first passed.

Would you say we were fronting with our other staff and their company cars? As it is a business fleet policy, anyone with the permission of the owner can drive any of the vehicles on the policy fully comp, as much or as little as they like. The point of the business fleet policy is that they can do this and still drive any of the other cars within the company if they need to. They are not "named drivers" specific to their cars and they do not need to be as has been stated by the insurance company.

ETA - in my previous post I wasn't trying to say the insurance situation was odd, I was saying that my dad having final say in getting a track car may seem odd

Edited by stabbed rat on Tuesday 17th May 17:21

Sorry

[stabbed rat]

itsnotarace said:

stabbed rat said:

Please get more facts before jumping to conclusions.

The insurance company know full well I am the main driver of the car, they know my age and they even limited the size of engine I could have when I first passed.

Would you say we were fronting with our other staff and their company cars? As it is a business fleet policy, anyone with the permission of the owner can drive any of the vehicles on the policy fully comp, as much or as little as they like. The point of the business fleet policy is that they can do this and still drive any of the other cars within the company if they need to. They are not "named drivers" specific to their cars and they do not need to be as has been stated by the insurance company.

ETA - in my previous post I wasn't trying to say the insurance situation was odd, I was saying that my dad having final say in getting a track car may seem odd

Edited by stabbed rat on Tuesday 17th May 17:21

Sorry

No worries