So how long can a race engine run for?

So how long can a race engine run for?

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BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
Sorry to show my ignorance here, but how long can an engine without a cooling system run for? It always astounds me how long the fuel cars, etc. have the engine running for- they're already warmed up too, aren't they?

Do these engines run coolant in the blocks for heat transfer or what (I know some race cars run a cooling system)?

As a mechanic I'm almost embarrased to ask these kinds of questions, but if you guys can't answer them then who can?

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
So you're running a production iron block with coolant passages but with no coolant in the block?
Don't you get localised heat build up at the top of the cylinders that hurts performance?
Surely having the block filled with coolant (even if it's not circulating) would produce a more even heat transfer and therefore more linear rates of expansion for the engine components?



Edited by BB-Q on Thursday 23 August 17:21

BennettRacing

729 posts

226 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
Some do, but then always a chance it getting under a slick.

Our block is a Keith Black block, but we chose to run it with the water jackets as in the event (hope never) that a rod exits the block it does less damage and is easier to repair.

My old rover was run dry, as long as your sensible its fine, sounds silly but you hear the engine get too hot.



Edited by BennettRacing on Thursday 23 August 17:21

GreenV8S

30,899 posts

299 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
BennettRacing said:
we chose to run it with the water jackets as in the event (hope never) that a rod exits the block it does less damage and is easier to repair.
I'd have thought that was pretty terminal (I mean, for the engine), how does a dry water jacket help?

cerbagriff

342 posts

256 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
So how would a drag racer cope with a VMAX run over a measured mile? Could the engines run for four times as long as they currently do without grenading themselves? Would the car peak at 1/4mile and then 'cruise' the remaining 3/4 miles or would it continue to build speed to- who knows what terminal speed!!

Edited by cerbagriff on Thursday 23 August 20:27

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
cerbagriff said:
So how would a drag racer cope with a VMAX run over a measured mile? Could the engines run for four times as long as they currently do without grenading themselves? Would the car peak at 1/4mile and then 'cruise' the remaining 3/4 miles or would it continue to build speed to- who knows what terminal speed!!

Edited by cerbagriff on Thursday 23 August 20:27
I can't see a fuel engine lasting much more than 6 or 7 seconds without tipping a fair bit of alky in, but I'll be very interested to hear what those who know have to say on the subject.

Tet

1,196 posts

219 months

Thursday 23rd August 2007
quotequote all
Nitro-besty said:
The rev limiters would need to be removed, since 8400rpm will be your lot otherwise....
Then again, you don't really want to be doing much more then 8400rpm with a modern fuel engine...

But yes, you couldn't take a current fuel or methanol dragster and expect it to run over much more than 1320ft. It should certainly be possible to design and build a car suited to run longer distances, but so much is tailored to the quarter mile that you'd need to be nearly starting from scratch. Even in the lower classes, few cars will run well over longer distances without changes to gearing etc.

BennettRacing

729 posts

226 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
BennettRacing said:
we chose to run it with the water jackets as in the event (hope never) that a rod exits the block it does less damage and is easier to repair.
I'd have thought that was pretty terminal (I mean, for the engine), how does a dry water jacket help?
Because as the rod exits through the side it take less material with it. Rather than a solid block.

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
BennettRacing said:
GreenV8S said:
BennettRacing said:
we chose to run it with the water jackets as in the event (hope never) that a rod exits the block it does less damage and is easier to repair.
I'd have thought that was pretty terminal (I mean, for the engine), how does a dry water jacket help?
Because as the rod exits through the side it take less material with it. Rather than a solid block.
doesn't make any sense to me either. When a rod makes a bid for freedom the result is usually a ventilated block being weighed in for scrap.
Are you saying you'd have a repair patch welded to the block and a liner put in?! Wouldn't another block be cheaper?
As you've probably gathered, I have no idea what race engine components cost- unless they're for a Volvo redblock.

BennettRacing

729 posts

226 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
BB-Q said:
BennettRacing said:
GreenV8S said:
BennettRacing said:
we chose to run it with the water jackets as in the event (hope never) that a rod exits the block it does less damage and is easier to repair.
I'd have thought that was pretty terminal (I mean, for the engine), how does a dry water jacket help?
Because as the rod exits through the side it take less material with it. Rather than a solid block.
doesn't make any sense to me either. When a rod makes a bid for freedom the result is usually a ventilated block being weighed in for scrap.
Are you saying you'd have a repair patch welded to the block and a liner put in?! Wouldn't another block be cheaper?
As you've probably gathered, I have no idea what race engine components cost- unless they're for a Volvo redblock.
Because if you imagine a solid block, solid alloy, when the rod exits the energy contained within it takes more block with it. With the water jacket block it is not as strong as a solid block but will take less material with it if rod comes through.
And yeah would be alot cheaper to repair block than new one.


Our old iron block was standard as you can get, will filled it with our own special mix and used it for 12 years, run numerous 7.3 and 7.2 runs on it and never had any grief, until we started running 7.1's and 7.0's on it, it began to crack, only hairline cracks but its day was done.

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
Ok, so what does a Keith Black or Brodix block cost?

Or is it a case of "if you have to ask you can't afford it" eek

Furyous

24,764 posts

236 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
Follow the link and have a browse round to get a feel for block prices.

Linky


F

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
While that's a lot of money, it's actually less than I was guessing!
While I'm not in any way in the market for any V8, I've been taking advantage of the weak dollar for the last year or two for custom made stuff for my volvo engine.
For example, Eagle (well, custom made in the same foundry for someone else) rods £50 each, custom spec CP forged pistons £350 a set. Same stuff over here would cost a fortune.

Furyous

24,764 posts

236 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
How many hours do you life a rod for John ?

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
What's the spec on the rods? I'm wondering if they can be made cheaper. What are they made of?

BB-Q

Original Poster:

1,697 posts

225 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
Anyone want to send me a rod that's done it's time so I can send it to my guy in Seattle? Can't hurt, escpecially at the rate you guys go through rods.

Benni

3,642 posts

226 months

Friday 24th August 2007
quotequote all
Nitro-besty said:
The better financed teams will change parts purely because the budget is there (even if there's still life in the bits n pieces).
Hi Nitro-Besty !
This reminds me of an announcement heard on the Hockenheim PA
when I was spectator, must have been early 90s :
"Would the fans that bought souvenir race pistons from one of our "Pro" Teams
bring them back to the team, please, money will be returned !"
Caused quite a laugh on the grandstand, but worked,
as one of the teams had damaged the newly fitted parts beyond recovery,
and as they were still in the race, needed the "junk" to make the next round !
Cheers, and good luck with your front engine fueler,
Benni