Rockets at RWYB ??
Discussion
depends on the type of rocket, they're not illegal in the uk, we ran the twisted sanity hyrid-nitrous rocket at avon and santa pod for a few years, santa pod got a bit shirty when it blew up though and sent a bit flying into the barn(understandable i suppose), there is no rule book for rocket cars in the uk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkHlLDVm9GU
excuse the crap footage but you get the idea
unless you have a solid fuel rocket, which is like a bomb with a hole in the end and wont be allowed anywhere!
good luck you mad fecker!!
excuse the crap footage but you get the idea
unless you have a solid fuel rocket, which is like a bomb with a hole in the end and wont be allowed anywhere!
good luck you mad fecker!!
RWYB was all we were allowed to run at, its all to do with the level of insurance cover provided by the track, rwyb is different to demonstration passes which is different to msa days, eric teboul still runs a peroxide rocket bike at santa pod, i'd enquire before putting to much money into your project though, good luck with it
That's the problem , it's OK building a rocket car but where do you run it. I spoke to Anthony Billington some time ago about this and he indicated that it may be difficult to run a rocket car. I think Sammy Miller had a good agreement with the Phelps people who ran Santa Pod at the time. After the phelps moved on it appears not much was seen of Sammy. Thanks for the info.
kestral said:
That's the problem , it's OK building a rocket car but where do you run it. I spoke to Anthony Billington some time ago about this and he indicated that it may be difficult to run a rocket car. I think Sammy Miller had a good agreement with the Phelps people who ran Santa Pod at the time. After the phelps moved on it appears not much was seen of Sammy. Thanks for the info.
Anthony is certainly the man to speak to about the technology. Otherwise have you thought about speaking to Keith Bartlett or Darren Prentice? Obviously let this weekend settle down first though. Eric Teboul would also be a usefull point of contact with regards fuel supplies.Sammy did run VP after the Phelps had moved on. Martin Hill may also be a good source of info as he was involved in the speedfreaks ball, where Sammy made some of his last runs. Bearing in mind Sammy was only running 45 mph quicker than the current Top Fuel cars are doing over here, and safety has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 20 years, I would say that H2O2 was the way to go. No disrespect to Charles and Carolyn's recent efforts, I would (and have) happily stand within 20 feet of Eric's bike; but whenever a nitrous / plastic / firework car ran, my base instincts were to retreat to a safe distance.
Well, you can run a rocket car at a RWYB, at Shakespeare, but expect to have the thing very closely scrutineered before you get anywhere near the track.
Our hybrid rockets use a very different construction to those use by Twisted Sanity. They are held together with titanium tie rods and dural end-plates that can be evenly torqued, and the assemblies are cross-braced into the chassis rails to prevent any movement of the endcaps. Charles Berg used end plugs instead of endcaps. The caps prevent the expansion of the rocket tube, ensuring the integrity of the seals, plugs don't do that.
We've fired a lot of rockets in static tests and at the track and (so far) have never even made a hole in one, let alone blow the nozzle assembly off the car. As I understand it, Twisted Sanity blew a nozzle assembly into the barn, resulting in all hybrid rocket cars being effectively banned from Santa Pod. We have now spent two painful years trying to repair that damage by demonstrating that we can run these rockets safely.
We have tested plastic fuel grains in private and they are powerful, but they also kick out lots of filthy black smoke and platic detritis, so we decided to go with the cardboard. When the cardboard is very, very dry it is also surprisingly powerful, but it is very susceptible to damp conditions, picking up moisture from the air very quickly. Damp stuff just don't go well, as we discovered at our last Shakespeare test.
As for standing very close to, or behind, any rocket... not the best idea!! Rocket exhaust jets are hypersonic gasses and any small particle in the exhaust jet can come out at the speed of a bullet. We, and the Shakespeare safety crews, have an entire launch procedure to ensure all human bodies are out of harm's way when we go. Laffin-gas is built to very high standards and has current SFI certification, which any rocket car capable of real speed will need.
High Test Peroxide? Getting the fuel is such a problem that we ruled out peroxide early on. Properly constructed hybrids are very controllable with instant shut-off and (in our case) full throttle control. There is little or no fire risk and we are not handling volatile fuels at the track. That's why we use hybrids.
Glenn Stockton, at Shakespeare, has followed our progress every step of the way and has made many useful safety suggestions. Evey time we run, Glenn goes over the car from stem to stern and wants any changes or developments expained to his satisfaction, even though he's very familiar with the car. In today's climate, safety is paramount. We have written check-list-based procedures for every phase of our operation, and you can expect a track to want to see them.
Martin Hill is indeed the best source of info on Sammy Miller. All I can say about Sammy's adventures is that they are now (sadly) history. It's a new world with new frontiers, rockets can run, and run safely but going back to the old days is not the answer. Anyway, pioneering the new is more of a challenge than re-creating the old.
If anybody wants to build a rocket, we are happy to share our knowledge (as was Charles Berg) and you are welcome to come and see the car close-up.
Our hybrid rockets use a very different construction to those use by Twisted Sanity. They are held together with titanium tie rods and dural end-plates that can be evenly torqued, and the assemblies are cross-braced into the chassis rails to prevent any movement of the endcaps. Charles Berg used end plugs instead of endcaps. The caps prevent the expansion of the rocket tube, ensuring the integrity of the seals, plugs don't do that.
We've fired a lot of rockets in static tests and at the track and (so far) have never even made a hole in one, let alone blow the nozzle assembly off the car. As I understand it, Twisted Sanity blew a nozzle assembly into the barn, resulting in all hybrid rocket cars being effectively banned from Santa Pod. We have now spent two painful years trying to repair that damage by demonstrating that we can run these rockets safely.
We have tested plastic fuel grains in private and they are powerful, but they also kick out lots of filthy black smoke and platic detritis, so we decided to go with the cardboard. When the cardboard is very, very dry it is also surprisingly powerful, but it is very susceptible to damp conditions, picking up moisture from the air very quickly. Damp stuff just don't go well, as we discovered at our last Shakespeare test.
As for standing very close to, or behind, any rocket... not the best idea!! Rocket exhaust jets are hypersonic gasses and any small particle in the exhaust jet can come out at the speed of a bullet. We, and the Shakespeare safety crews, have an entire launch procedure to ensure all human bodies are out of harm's way when we go. Laffin-gas is built to very high standards and has current SFI certification, which any rocket car capable of real speed will need.
High Test Peroxide? Getting the fuel is such a problem that we ruled out peroxide early on. Properly constructed hybrids are very controllable with instant shut-off and (in our case) full throttle control. There is little or no fire risk and we are not handling volatile fuels at the track. That's why we use hybrids.
Glenn Stockton, at Shakespeare, has followed our progress every step of the way and has made many useful safety suggestions. Evey time we run, Glenn goes over the car from stem to stern and wants any changes or developments expained to his satisfaction, even though he's very familiar with the car. In today's climate, safety is paramount. We have written check-list-based procedures for every phase of our operation, and you can expect a track to want to see them.
Martin Hill is indeed the best source of info on Sammy Miller. All I can say about Sammy's adventures is that they are now (sadly) history. It's a new world with new frontiers, rockets can run, and run safely but going back to the old days is not the answer. Anyway, pioneering the new is more of a challenge than re-creating the old.
If anybody wants to build a rocket, we are happy to share our knowledge (as was Charles Berg) and you are welcome to come and see the car close-up.
SFI is the body that governs safety in drag racing. It's from America and does much of the American Motorsport safety stuff. For some reason, it operates in Europe only in drag racing. They inspect and certify chassis and various car parts that relate to safety, like wheels and clutches. If you google SFI drag racing, you'll find them, although the website doesn't say what 'SFI' stands for, and I don't know myself. Basically you have to build to their spec. The MSA drag racing handbook has all that stuff in it and, again, you can find all that on the internet. In our case it's just the safety cell and the wheels and tyres that come under SFI regs. We also build as close as possible to the Jet-Car Regs that you'll find in the MSA handbook. Ovbviously things like 'afterburners' and various other stuff don't apply to rocket cars, so you have to use common sense in your build. Glenn Stockton can steer you in the right direction.
Hope that helps
Carolynne
Hope that helps
Carolynne
SFI used to be SEMA Foundation, Inc but is now independent from SEMA: http://www.sfifoundation.com/about.html
rocketwoman said:
As I understand it, Twisted Sanity blew a nozzle assembly into the barn, resulting in all hybrid rocket cars being effectively banned from Santa Pod. We have now spent two painful years trying to repair that damage by demonstrating that we can run these rockets safely.
So with the closure of the barn, does that now mean you're one step closer to being able to run at Santa Pod? Tet said:
rocketwoman said:
As I understand it, Twisted Sanity blew a nozzle assembly into the barn, resulting in all hybrid rocket cars being effectively banned from Santa Pod. We have now spent two painful years trying to repair that damage by demonstrating that we can run these rockets safely.
So with the closure of the barn, does that now mean you're one step closer to being able to run at Santa Pod? 
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