How fit do you need to be (Whistler)?
Discussion
Someone posted a link to "that" video of the MTB guys at Whistler. It caught my attention BIG TIME. I'm approaching the completion of a high-end BMX build (noted elsewhere in this forum) and I think I've taken the specification of my hybrid to the stage where it's spot on - save for the decision on whether to try sprung forks or CF ones (birthday coming so the decision needs to be prompt).
I'm getting a lot fitter - more so than I have been in the 20 years that have elapsed since I stopped using a bike regularly.
But I want to do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3nkzjACUG4
I am prepared to start saving, forgo a new sports car for 2 to 5 years, and generally beg, borrow and steal money (I will too) so I can save and buy a top end DH. But, despite my increasing/returning strength and stamina, I'm still fat and I'm probably not going to lose much.
Does it take a lot of strength and fitness to do that? I want to have go more than I can express in words. The last time I engaged in tricks and stunts, it was on a BMX and I found it effortless - as I did tooling around on a bike for 4 to 8 hours/day. I was 25 year younger though, and had ridden a bike daily for the preceding 13 years.
Tell me it's easy. Tell me I'll manage. Let me down gently.
I'm getting a lot fitter - more so than I have been in the 20 years that have elapsed since I stopped using a bike regularly.
But I want to do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3nkzjACUG4
I am prepared to start saving, forgo a new sports car for 2 to 5 years, and generally beg, borrow and steal money (I will too) so I can save and buy a top end DH. But, despite my increasing/returning strength and stamina, I'm still fat and I'm probably not going to lose much.
Does it take a lot of strength and fitness to do that? I want to have go more than I can express in words. The last time I engaged in tricks and stunts, it was on a BMX and I found it effortless - as I did tooling around on a bike for 4 to 8 hours/day. I was 25 year younger though, and had ridden a bike daily for the preceding 13 years.
Tell me it's easy. Tell me I'll manage. Let me down gently.
Id imagine the clever folk take a ski lift to the top with a proper DH bike to take the sting out of the downs
Those North SHore bits are sure going to smart a bit if you get it wrong though
Go for it!
EDIT: That yorkshire bloke right at the end on the Santa Cruz prob does have more natural skill then you
Those North SHore bits are sure going to smart a bit if you get it wrong though
Go for it!
EDIT: That yorkshire bloke right at the end on the Santa Cruz prob does have more natural skill then you
Edited by RRS_Staffs on Sunday 1st May 19:50
How unfit are you? In your skyway blog you refer to yourself as a 'big lump' or something but can you quantify that? You certainly need to be in good shape if you're not going to do yourself an injury.
Having said that I spent 6 weeks in Morzine a couple of years ago and you saw some pretty large tourists there for the week! Not much fun i imagine though? They seem to enjoy it enough however!
The big issue is technique. To get the most out of the mountain you really really need to be good. Comfortable hitting berms at speed, good at picking lines, excellent ability in technical sections - off camber roots, rocks etc. That's what would most concern me. I'm not that fast but I'm quick enough, and we used to go up 'Le Pleny' which is the motorway track all the tourists use and people would cycle down it on hardtail XC bikes with their saddles up their arses and have some horrendous crashes. Just not prepared at all.
What I would suggest to you is to ignore your canadian dreams right now. There is genuinely tons of amazing riding in the UK at trail centres all over the UK where you can have so much fun without travelling to Canada it's untrue.
If you really think it's for you spend some money (£1500 or so) on a decent FS bike (Lapierre Zesty, Commencal Meta, Trek Fuel) and go and have some fun around the UK. If you get good and enjoy it then maybe think about Canada in a few years.
I don't want to sound like I'm putting you off but you need to put into perspective what you're doing. Watching MTB videos all day is a great way to motivate yourself - and if you've ridden BMX in the past your technical skills must be alright - but don't go jumping in at the deep end!!!! Work up to it and see how you go.
Finally, don't assume Canada is the be-all and end-all of mountainbiking. The French resorts (historically Mozine/Les Gets and Avoriaz) are excellent and as the lift companies figure out there is money to be made they're only getting better.
Having said that I spent 6 weeks in Morzine a couple of years ago and you saw some pretty large tourists there for the week! Not much fun i imagine though? They seem to enjoy it enough however!
The big issue is technique. To get the most out of the mountain you really really need to be good. Comfortable hitting berms at speed, good at picking lines, excellent ability in technical sections - off camber roots, rocks etc. That's what would most concern me. I'm not that fast but I'm quick enough, and we used to go up 'Le Pleny' which is the motorway track all the tourists use and people would cycle down it on hardtail XC bikes with their saddles up their arses and have some horrendous crashes. Just not prepared at all.
What I would suggest to you is to ignore your canadian dreams right now. There is genuinely tons of amazing riding in the UK at trail centres all over the UK where you can have so much fun without travelling to Canada it's untrue.
If you really think it's for you spend some money (£1500 or so) on a decent FS bike (Lapierre Zesty, Commencal Meta, Trek Fuel) and go and have some fun around the UK. If you get good and enjoy it then maybe think about Canada in a few years.
I don't want to sound like I'm putting you off but you need to put into perspective what you're doing. Watching MTB videos all day is a great way to motivate yourself - and if you've ridden BMX in the past your technical skills must be alright - but don't go jumping in at the deep end!!!! Work up to it and see how you go.
Finally, don't assume Canada is the be-all and end-all of mountainbiking. The French resorts (historically Mozine/Les Gets and Avoriaz) are excellent and as the lift companies figure out there is money to be made they're only getting better.
I'm intrigued and heartened that Europe might have this type of course available, if not now then up-and-coming. 
Big lump - yes. I'm fat and pretty out of shape but I feel the strength and stamina improving week on week even though I doubt I'll ever be a racing snake again. I love food - it's my one serious vice/weakness. I don't even drink that much and gave up smoking (I was a heavy smoker) when I was 31. I'm 42 now. And I don't ride often enough - I drive a computer during the week. If I could find a different way to earn the beans, I would. Never have I been so motivated as now.
I will never be the technical cool dude that those guys in the videos are, and I would never intend to set speed records. What I love is "getting air" in a controlled manner. I don't need to hit a ramp at 60mph to fly with the gods but I do love the sensation of hitting a perfectly-shaped up-ramp and feel the bike go light. I probably couldn't even pull off a table-top manoeuvre these days but the ambition to get the bike perfectly flat and level is strong. It looks so cool when you're slicing through the air like that.
The large downhills are attractive because you can get into a great stride when you're riding downhill for 20 mins at a time. If we can do this in EU-land then I'm all for it. I would love to see a video nicely produced like that Whistler one from our side of the pond.
More than anything... I've never owned a bike with any sus at all. I have tried a few and love the feeling of gliding over the ground. Very addictive. I am going to save a bit then go and try a few out.
Incidentally, I pulled a reasonably well-controlled wheelie today with SPDs on my hybrid. Took commitment because the bike is high off the ground (the Skyway is quite the opposite) and it is very very light for the gearing I chose. Still, modulating with the brake I managed to keep upright. Tomorrow we're off out again. I'm going to see if I can avoid killing myself as I try to prove to myself that I'm 18yo again. I may write here again. I may not.
Big lump - yes. I'm fat and pretty out of shape but I feel the strength and stamina improving week on week even though I doubt I'll ever be a racing snake again. I love food - it's my one serious vice/weakness. I don't even drink that much and gave up smoking (I was a heavy smoker) when I was 31. I'm 42 now. And I don't ride often enough - I drive a computer during the week. If I could find a different way to earn the beans, I would. Never have I been so motivated as now.
I will never be the technical cool dude that those guys in the videos are, and I would never intend to set speed records. What I love is "getting air" in a controlled manner. I don't need to hit a ramp at 60mph to fly with the gods but I do love the sensation of hitting a perfectly-shaped up-ramp and feel the bike go light. I probably couldn't even pull off a table-top manoeuvre these days but the ambition to get the bike perfectly flat and level is strong. It looks so cool when you're slicing through the air like that.
The large downhills are attractive because you can get into a great stride when you're riding downhill for 20 mins at a time. If we can do this in EU-land then I'm all for it. I would love to see a video nicely produced like that Whistler one from our side of the pond.
More than anything... I've never owned a bike with any sus at all. I have tried a few and love the feeling of gliding over the ground. Very addictive. I am going to save a bit then go and try a few out.
Incidentally, I pulled a reasonably well-controlled wheelie today with SPDs on my hybrid. Took commitment because the bike is high off the ground (the Skyway is quite the opposite) and it is very very light for the gearing I chose. Still, modulating with the brake I managed to keep upright. Tomorrow we're off out again. I'm going to see if I can avoid killing myself as I try to prove to myself that I'm 18yo again. I may write here again. I may not.
mtb to road works a lot better than road to mtb.
when out on the trails, you are not pedalling continuously, there is a lot of weight shifting going on and you are setting the bike up for corners, jumps etc. on the road, those bursts of high intensity pedalling come in useful but only on occasions. otherwise, on the ropad, its just about keeping up the cadence and the speed. nothing that mtb rally primes you for.
road to mtb, means you will benefit from having the miles in your legs to go all day but you struggle with the bike handling, if i have done a lot of road miles then head to the trails, it takes me a while to get to grips with cornering on the loose stuff and picking out lines.
as for the OP and his question regarding fitness, full on DH requires immense upper body strenght, you have to be able to literally pick up the bike on the exit of one corner and plonk it back on the right line for the next. i have a friend who does a lot of DH and is in the gym alot doing core and bench press stuff.
when out on the trails, you are not pedalling continuously, there is a lot of weight shifting going on and you are setting the bike up for corners, jumps etc. on the road, those bursts of high intensity pedalling come in useful but only on occasions. otherwise, on the ropad, its just about keeping up the cadence and the speed. nothing that mtb rally primes you for.
road to mtb, means you will benefit from having the miles in your legs to go all day but you struggle with the bike handling, if i have done a lot of road miles then head to the trails, it takes me a while to get to grips with cornering on the loose stuff and picking out lines.
as for the OP and his question regarding fitness, full on DH requires immense upper body strenght, you have to be able to literally pick up the bike on the exit of one corner and plonk it back on the right line for the next. i have a friend who does a lot of DH and is in the gym alot doing core and bench press stuff.
You picked a video with literally the best DH/Freeriders in the world
I've got a helmet with Steve Peat's autograph (the English guy that first speaks).
You really don't need to be incredibly fit if you're going slowly and getting the lifts up, it's when you want to go faster that takes fitness. Your arms and legs take a real beating on the longer courses.
You could try Ft. William DH track up here in Scotland first? Regarded by many as the best DH track in the world.
ETA: I think that's from the DVD 'Seasons'. My favourite MTB DVD is New World Disorder 7, you'll want to go somewhere to ride even more after watching one.
I've got a helmet with Steve Peat's autograph (the English guy that first speaks).
You really don't need to be incredibly fit if you're going slowly and getting the lifts up, it's when you want to go faster that takes fitness. Your arms and legs take a real beating on the longer courses.
You could try Ft. William DH track up here in Scotland first? Regarded by many as the best DH track in the world.
ETA: I think that's from the DVD 'Seasons'. My favourite MTB DVD is New World Disorder 7, you'll want to go somewhere to ride even more after watching one.
Edited by CanadianScot on Monday 2nd May 00:11
Midlands but that doesn't prevent a problem.
I do realise those guys ride beyond capabilities I'll ever achieve - I'm not seeking their achievements but I'd like a go on bikes like theirs and terrain like that.
I've set myself a target to be fit enough to have a go for when I'll probably be able to afford something like that in a couple of years timem in the meantime I shall continue with the BMX and towing my (increasingly heavy) daughter around in the trailer.
I just need a job close enough to home to cycle there and back. That'd probably give me a boost. I am looking.
I do realise those guys ride beyond capabilities I'll ever achieve - I'm not seeking their achievements but I'd like a go on bikes like theirs and terrain like that.
I've set myself a target to be fit enough to have a go for when I'll probably be able to afford something like that in a couple of years timem in the meantime I shall continue with the BMX and towing my (increasingly heavy) daughter around in the trailer.
I just need a job close enough to home to cycle there and back. That'd probably give me a boost. I am looking.
Mars said:
Midlands but that doesn't prevent a problem.
I do realise those guys ride beyond capabilities I'll ever achieve - I'm not seeking their achievements but I'd like a go on bikes like theirs and terrain like that.
I've set myself a target to be fit enough to have a go for when I'll probably be able to afford something like that in a couple of years timem in the meantime I shall continue with the BMX and towing my (increasingly heavy) daughter around in the trailer.
I just need a job close enough to home to cycle there and back. That'd probably give me a boost. I am looking.
ARGH!I do realise those guys ride beyond capabilities I'll ever achieve - I'm not seeking their achievements but I'd like a go on bikes like theirs and terrain like that.
I've set myself a target to be fit enough to have a go for when I'll probably be able to afford something like that in a couple of years timem in the meantime I shall continue with the BMX and towing my (increasingly heavy) daughter around in the trailer.
I just need a job close enough to home to cycle there and back. That'd probably give me a boost. I am looking.
THIS IS FRUSTRATING!
You're in the midlands, right? You don't need to afford 'something like that', or get 'fit enough' (whatever that is). You need technical skills you don't yet have. Get a semi decent MTB and go to Cannock Chase. It's not Canada but one step at a time, eh? It is great fun, however. There may even be people there on DH bikes who may even let you have a go if you ask nicely! If you get bitten by the bug, ride more and spend more on the bike.
Simples.
OP,
If you've got the bug and are midlands based why not...
a) buy something bouncy second hand for about a grand from here http://www.southerndownhill.com/
b) book an uplift day here http://www.cwmdown.co.uk/
Come home with a massive smile on yer face and loads of stories about railing a sketchy berm...
... and then the rest will follow.
There is tonnes of stuff in the UK!
If you've got the bug and are midlands based why not...
a) buy something bouncy second hand for about a grand from here http://www.southerndownhill.com/
b) book an uplift day here http://www.cwmdown.co.uk/
Come home with a massive smile on yer face and loads of stories about railing a sketchy berm...
... and then the rest will follow.
There is tonnes of stuff in the UK!
I spent last summer in Whistler and ended my season with a fully ruptured ACL, if I was given the option to do the same again, including the ACL, I would jump at it without a moments hesitation. However, what these guys are saying is the truth. You need to be a mouintain bike rider before you even think about heading out there if you want to get the most out of it. There is a massive range of tracks catering for beginners to things that will terrify very good DH riders. The more skill you have before you head out there the more tracks you will be able to enjoy. The bike park is good but there is also a massive amount of amazing XC to be had too. By XC I mean full on mental tracks that you need to pedal a bike up to.
Here are two videos I made last summer, if you just want to get air I think you may apperciate the first one.
http://vimeo.com/13752717?ab
http://video.mpora.com/watch/LnkTafS75/
Here are two videos I made last summer, if you just want to get air I think you may apperciate the first one.
http://vimeo.com/13752717?ab
http://video.mpora.com/watch/LnkTafS75/
At 42, I would give it a miss, almost every DH/FR rider I know has has been to hospital at some point from an off, for me it was t6, t7 vertibrae with multiple fractures, 3-7L 2-7R ribs broken and most of my front teeth (I was wearing FF helmet + armour too).
The adrenaline buzz is addictive however, I now ride more post accident. There are quite a few DH/FR tracks in the UK, non like Whistler ( Euroland has many though). You will be pushish up most course in the UK, typically UK courses are short and technical (we lack the mountains).
With regard to fitness, yes more the better, I'm panting after a 5 min balls out run.
As others mention, try a UK bike park/resort, I would do Glentress/ Innerleithen, rent all your gear, do glentress, it has a freeride park, and has a few small jumps and a long run down to the bottom carpark. I will be a good indicator of your fitness and ability, if you find it easy, book an uplife for Innerleithen (it's over an hours push up).
The adrenaline buzz is addictive however, I now ride more post accident. There are quite a few DH/FR tracks in the UK, non like Whistler ( Euroland has many though). You will be pushish up most course in the UK, typically UK courses are short and technical (we lack the mountains).
With regard to fitness, yes more the better, I'm panting after a 5 min balls out run.
As others mention, try a UK bike park/resort, I would do Glentress/ Innerleithen, rent all your gear, do glentress, it has a freeride park, and has a few small jumps and a long run down to the bottom carpark. I will be a good indicator of your fitness and ability, if you find it easy, book an uplife for Innerleithen (it's over an hours push up).
CanadianScot said:
You picked a video with literally the best DH/Freeriders in the world
I've got a helmet with Steve Peat's autograph (the English guy that first speaks)
I had the pleasure of meeting Steve Peat many years ago, prior to his rise to fame, at Jacobs ladder in the Peaks. Now me and my mates were a bit tasty on our bikes, but he was another few leagues above.I've got a helmet with Steve Peat's autograph (the English guy that first speaks)
This video reminds me of the difference in performance between a group of dedicated enthusiasts, and someone destined for the world championship - http://youtu.be/K2cNqaPSHv0
Floor Tom said:
I spent last summer in Whistler and ended my season with a fully ruptured ACL, if I was given the option to do the same again, including the ACL, I would jump at it without a moments hesitation. However, what these guys are saying is the truth. You need to be a mouintain bike rider before you even think about heading out there if you want to get the most out of it. There is a massive range of tracks catering for beginners to things that will terrify very good DH riders. The more skill you have before you head out there the more tracks you will be able to enjoy. The bike park is good but there is also a massive amount of amazing XC to be had too. By XC I mean full on mental tracks that you need to pedal a bike up to.
Here are two videos I made last summer, if you just want to get air I think you may apperciate the first one.
http://vimeo.com/13752717?ab
http://video.mpora.com/watch/LnkTafS75/
Those are some great videos.Here are two videos I made last summer, if you just want to get air I think you may apperciate the first one.
http://vimeo.com/13752717?ab
http://video.mpora.com/watch/LnkTafS75/
I've never really had the urge to ride Canada, I prefer some of the more technical stuff in France but that does look like absolutely incredible fun.
Balance, awareness, reactions and focus are all more important than fitness for downhill. If you want to build up fitness then the best areas to focus on are arms then legs, it's no good being able to go faster if you can't hang on.
Used to go a fair bit as well as doing other 2 wheeled stuff, miss it
Used to go a fair bit as well as doing other 2 wheeled stuff, miss it
There are other tracks there with smaller jumps but still fun, if you want to ride A-Line you need to be fairly confident jumping (well if you wantr to ride it properly anyway, its easy to roll down).
I would advise you to get a decent trail bike, ride a bit. Get some lesons fron Dirt School or similar and then head to whistler.
I would advise you to get a decent trail bike, ride a bit. Get some lesons fron Dirt School or similar and then head to whistler.
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