QR vs Through-axle
Discussion
Hi All. After much deliberation am getting a zesty 314, but am in a quandry as to whether it's worth upgrading the standard QR for the through axle on the 514.
To be honest I've had trouble justifying the 314 price on it's own, but would an extra £300 be noticeable to me when I've never ridden a through-axle bike anyway and the standard 314 seems one hell of a machine from where I'm sitting anyway.
The other plus is that it'd be tubeless compatible, which I've been toying with tryign for years anyway...
One other thing - how much more work is it to get the wheels off a through-axle than QR?
Any thoughts would be appreciated
To be honest I've had trouble justifying the 314 price on it's own, but would an extra £300 be noticeable to me when I've never ridden a through-axle bike anyway and the standard 314 seems one hell of a machine from where I'm sitting anyway.
The other plus is that it'd be tubeless compatible, which I've been toying with tryign for years anyway...
One other thing - how much more work is it to get the wheels off a through-axle than QR?
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Actually - the difference between a thru-axle and Qr fork IS very noticeable in my experience.
QR20 and now QR15/Maxle is far, far better and the forks are much stiffer laterally.
I wouldnt want a mountain bike with a QR fork now after riding with throug-axles for years.
Newest QR20 and maxle designs are barely anre more difficult to take apart than QR anyway.
Well worth it IMO.
QR20 and now QR15/Maxle is far, far better and the forks are much stiffer laterally.
I wouldnt want a mountain bike with a QR fork now after riding with throug-axles for years.
Newest QR20 and maxle designs are barely anre more difficult to take apart than QR anyway.
Well worth it IMO.
The design of the fork has far more effect on front end stiffness than a thru-axle.
I have a normal QR on a triple clamp equipped mountain bike tandem. I've been down many of the black routes at the likes of Glenntress and even down the Mam Torr broken road, which is one of the biggest tests of fork stiffness. This is with getting on for 26 stone on the bike. Not once have the forks felt flexy - despite being cheap Jr Ts with custom internals.
Contrast this with some big axle Mavericks and these flex like nothing on earth. Unless you are doing full on competitive DH, I'd argue they're not worth the extra cash. Save your money.
I have a normal QR on a triple clamp equipped mountain bike tandem. I've been down many of the black routes at the likes of Glenntress and even down the Mam Torr broken road, which is one of the biggest tests of fork stiffness. This is with getting on for 26 stone on the bike. Not once have the forks felt flexy - despite being cheap Jr Ts with custom internals.
Contrast this with some big axle Mavericks and these flex like nothing on earth. Unless you are doing full on competitive DH, I'd argue they're not worth the extra cash. Save your money.
See thats interesting as I've also experience of Jnr T's and IMO they are flexy as buggery.
And usefully - I also used to own a pair of super T's - which used the same 30mm stantion and and crown assembly, except with a botled 20mm axle - and these were noticeably stiffer!
Experience of swappign between Fox 32's with and without through axles also leads me to beleive that thru axles are usually hugely stiffer!
If you want to see fork flex - hold your front wheel in your knees and twist your bars. I reckon on a cheap QR fork with a lightweight wheel you could get at least 10 degrees rotation from the bar to the rim.
And that is the affect you get when the front wheels in a rut or your cornering hard.
Any way of minimizing this can only be a good thing!
And usefully - I also used to own a pair of super T's - which used the same 30mm stantion and and crown assembly, except with a botled 20mm axle - and these were noticeably stiffer!
Experience of swappign between Fox 32's with and without through axles also leads me to beleive that thru axles are usually hugely stiffer!
If you want to see fork flex - hold your front wheel in your knees and twist your bars. I reckon on a cheap QR fork with a lightweight wheel you could get at least 10 degrees rotation from the bar to the rim.
And that is the affect you get when the front wheels in a rut or your cornering hard.
Any way of minimizing this can only be a good thing!
Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 14th September 14:29
snotrag said:
See thats interesting as I've also experience of Jnr T's and IMO they are flexy as buggery.
And usefully - I also used to own a pair of super T's - which used the same 30mm stantion and and crown assembly, except with a botled 20mm axle - and these were noticeably stiffer!
Experience of swappign between Fox 32's with and without through axles also leads me to beleive that thru axles are usually hugely stiffer!
If you want to see fork flex - hold your front wheel in your knees and twist your bars. I reckon on a cheap QR fork with a lightweight wheel you could get at least 10 degrees rotation from the bar to the rim.
And that is the affect you get when the front wheels in a rut or your cornering hard.
This is what Maverick say about this...
Q: When I put my Maverick fork between my knees and twist the handlebars there is some flex or twist in the fork.
A: Maverick forks are designed for maximum fore/aft and lateral stiffness. Torsional stiffness is the least important. This "between the knees" test will never happen on the trail. The normal contact patch of the tire is very small and produces very minimal torsional twist. Our forks have received many accolades for their performance and feel—bottom line—that's what counts the most.
Any way of minimizing this can only be a good thing!
To answer your last point - it depends.And usefully - I also used to own a pair of super T's - which used the same 30mm stantion and and crown assembly, except with a botled 20mm axle - and these were noticeably stiffer!
Experience of swappign between Fox 32's with and without through axles also leads me to beleive that thru axles are usually hugely stiffer!
If you want to see fork flex - hold your front wheel in your knees and twist your bars. I reckon on a cheap QR fork with a lightweight wheel you could get at least 10 degrees rotation from the bar to the rim.
And that is the affect you get when the front wheels in a rut or your cornering hard.
This is what Maverick say about this...
Q: When I put my Maverick fork between my knees and twist the handlebars there is some flex or twist in the fork.
A: Maverick forks are designed for maximum fore/aft and lateral stiffness. Torsional stiffness is the least important. This "between the knees" test will never happen on the trail. The normal contact patch of the tire is very small and produces very minimal torsional twist. Our forks have received many accolades for their performance and feel—bottom line—that's what counts the most.
Any way of minimizing this can only be a good thing!
Edited by snotrag on Tuesday 14th September 14:29
Is stiffness always better? Well, if you look at motorbike racing, they design in some lateral flex at both ends for when the bike is cranked over. So you can go too stiff. Certainly a bolt thru will be stiffer than a QR, but is this actually better for your average rider, especially when you consider the £300 additional cost.
I've passed average riders on full on DH bikes whilst on my MTB tandem, and not felt that the front forks flexing were a problem. So you have to ask for the average rider is it worth it. I'd argue no.
I also used to pedal regularly with quite a few past and present sponsored riders - one who is currently at the top of the game for his age. Certainly the fact that he was on a hard-tail with 120mm of travel on a QR fork was not holding him back when he passed me (on my Whyte 46) like I was stood still - and I was at approx 25-30mph at this point on a very rocky descent.
Personally I think that they are like a lot of MTB products - a solution to a problem that's not really a problem for your average rider. With a £300 premium they're certainly not worth it.
Hang on - its not £300 to PURELY to upgrade to the different lowers on the fork is it..? As your quite correct, thats bonkers.
But given a choice if I was buying a new RS revelation say, Id pick the Maxle everytime.
I presume we are talking about £300 to upgrade to the next spec level, which includes a bolt thru fork...yes?
But given a choice if I was buying a new RS revelation say, Id pick the Maxle everytime.
I presume we are talking about £300 to upgrade to the next spec level, which includes a bolt thru fork...yes?
Definitely go Maxle if you can. The whole QR + disk brake thing is a totally flawed design. The amount of force trying to squirt the wheel out of the drop outs is pretty big.
Does the £300 extra get you a higher spec fork too? I had the same dilemma, 9mm QR Revelation Race vs Maxle Revelation Team = a lot more money. However you're getting a much better fork with better damping to boot. It's the torsional stiffness that gets the biggest improvement I guess but lateral must be improved a lot too.
I can see thru-axles becoming the norm in the next few years.
Does the £300 extra get you a higher spec fork too? I had the same dilemma, 9mm QR Revelation Race vs Maxle Revelation Team = a lot more money. However you're getting a much better fork with better damping to boot. It's the torsional stiffness that gets the biggest improvement I guess but lateral must be improved a lot too.
I can see thru-axles becoming the norm in the next few years.
Edited by mackie1 on Tuesday 14th September 17:02
Matt106 said:
Its a lot of money for something you won't notice that much as an average rider.
That's the quandry. I'm not a perenial upgrader, so the bike will probably stay as I buy it - I wont be buying another FS in the forseable future anyway...snotrag said:
Hang on - its not £300 to PURELY to upgrade to the different lowers on the fork is it..? As your quite correct, thats bonkers.
For the £300 they replace the lower stansions of the existing forks with through axle compatible stansions.Change the standard Mavic wheels (which cannot take through Axles and are not tubeless compatible) to "any" Hope wheels. They recommend Stans but I haven't looked into the wheels to be honest (or whether "any" means "any")- these would be compatible with through-axle. QR etc, and are tubeless compatible.
dubbs said:
I've got thru's (RS Pike) on my Ibis Mojo and you definitely tell the different in front end feel - the front feels far smoother, stronger, less flexy, less vibration - much more confident on the downhills... which for me is a good thing.
And this is compared to QR fork with the SAME internals and tube diameters? I suspect you're not comparing like with like TBH.I don't think there's much point in arguing whether Maxle is better than QR or not. It just is, it's a better design, stronger, safer, there's little or no weight penalty (a Maxle Lite weight just 80g) and it's just as quick to use as a normal QR (just remember to keep it lightly greased). The only question is is it worth the extra? If you're already spending quite a lot I'd say definitely go for it.
rhinochopig said:
dubbs said:
I've got thru's (RS Pike) on my Ibis Mojo and you definitely tell the different in front end feel - the front feels far smoother, stronger, less flexy, less vibration - much more confident on the downhills... which for me is a good thing.
And this is compared to QR fork with the SAME internals and tube diameters? I suspect you're not comparing like with like TBH.However thye were recommended to me for the very reasons I state above and it does feel much better so I'm happy and that's all that counts
I've recently had this same dilemma. I bought a red Meta with the revelations, over the more expensive white Meta with the Fox QR15 forks, with the intention of upgrading the forks asap.
I've recently shelled out a whole lump of cash for the QR20 lowers for my Revs, and I can tell you the difference is astounding.
Previously, when you hammered on the front brake you could physically see the forks twist if you happened to be look down, I was surprised they were moving so much. After fitting the 20mm the steering is sharper, the front end doesn't wash out so easily and when braking all that happens is a bit of brake dive, not a hint of flex.
I would 100% recommend getting the bolt through axle option.
That stuff that Maverick came up with is 100% premium grade bulls
t, I've ridden Mav forks before and they were a horrible, horrible bendy mess.
My previous bike was a Glory with 888RC2X's, so I got very used to the feeling of security and sharpness you get from stiff forks and I'm very happy with how the Revelations are now working with the 20mm upgrade.
I've recently shelled out a whole lump of cash for the QR20 lowers for my Revs, and I can tell you the difference is astounding.
Previously, when you hammered on the front brake you could physically see the forks twist if you happened to be look down, I was surprised they were moving so much. After fitting the 20mm the steering is sharper, the front end doesn't wash out so easily and when braking all that happens is a bit of brake dive, not a hint of flex.
I would 100% recommend getting the bolt through axle option.
That stuff that Maverick came up with is 100% premium grade bulls
t, I've ridden Mav forks before and they were a horrible, horrible bendy mess.My previous bike was a Glory with 888RC2X's, so I got very used to the feeling of security and sharpness you get from stiff forks and I'm very happy with how the Revelations are now working with the 20mm upgrade.
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